Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 II [R]

[panicfc]

Sound like any other ex-loewen players? Goerlitz, Lehmann, Adler, Milchraum, Baier, Lauth, etc...


All I can say is that I have heard this from two independent german sources and similar stuff from a non-german source. Could it be wrong? Sure. But I am not betting against it. From what I hear Hass is coming over as part of the package for Gebhart along with another player. Gebhart is going with a guarantee of no second team time for one year. Same grumblings being made on the German list now and they seem to lag such leaks by 4-5 days.:D

I'm not saying NOTHING!!!

but something is up....shhhhh


Interesting that he gets the 1st team guarantee. I think someone gets moved who's on the 18 man roster.

[Thielemann]

Sound like any other ex-loewen players? Goerlitz, Lehmann, Adler, Milchraum, Baier, Lauth, etc...



LB, I'll defer to you on almost any 1860 matter (except Gregg, of course, because he's an American) but that's isn't fair to Baier. He was outstanding with 1860. Don't know what went wrong last year at Wolfs. that led to the loan, but he seems to be a mainstay at Augsburg. But the real point is I don't recall him pushing for the move at all, Wolfs. came in with a ton of cash (almost 2 mil Euros!:eek:) for him and Schaefer, and there was no way we could keep him.

It was very traumatic for me.

[footyfan1]

All I can say is that I have heard this from two independent german sources and similar stuff from a non-german source. Could it be wrong? Sure. But I am not betting against it. From what I hear Hass is coming over as part of the package for Gebhart along with another player. Gebhart is going with a guarantee of no second team time for one year. Same grumblings being made on the German list now and they seem to lag such leaks by 4-5 days.:D

OK. With a first team guarantee, I can believe that. But I still wonder why 1860 would go with an exchange including a player they can get in July on a free transfer.

Especially as Tschauner has now gotten his head out of his ass.......

[footyfan1]

I'm not saying NOTHING!!!

but something is up....shhhhh


Interesting that he gets the 1st team guarantee. I think someone gets moved who's on the 18 man roster.


Perhaps they sell Salihovic back to Berlin?? Maybe they only extended him to get max value on a transfer??

[LoewenBoy]

LB, I'll defer to you on almost any 1860 matter (except Gregg, of course, because he's an American) but that's isn't fair to Baier. He was outstanding with 1860. Don't know what went wrong last year at Wolfs.
Honestly, I think he read his press clippings. I like Baier, don't get me wrong. But he joins a long line of guys from 1860 who either left on their own, were sold or complained/fanagled their way out of contracts to get to the 1.BL who never panned out. Not saying he won't one day, just not now. I think he should come back to 1860 and start over.:cool:

[footyfan1]

Guys, anyone catch that match yesterday?

The atmosphere at the AA was awesome, although IMO, the FCN fans made it more than the 1860 fans.

There was 57,200 people there and I think it was about 35,000 - 22,000 for FCN.

I also thought 1860 were lucky to come out of that match with a draw. I thought FCN dominated the first half, but 1860 woke up in the second half.

To be honest, you could see the difference in "class" between the two sides. 1860 were battling and FCN was clearly the more composed team.

But 1860 earned that draw. I thought they were lucky to come out with it, but they earned it nonetheless.


Did any of you see the "Raus aus der Arena" protests??

I talked with two of those guys out in the concourse before the match. I asked the first one him what is 1860's realistic alternative.

He admitted he didn't know, but they just wanted out of the Arena. He said they would prefer Gruenwalder Stadion.

That's all I asked him. He was cool about it.

I met another one and asked him the same question. He answered a bit more aggressively and made it clear they want to go back to Gruenwalderstadion.

I told him that I'm sure Reuter and the others would listen if they had a realistic alternative.

I also asked how 1860 would make up the lost revenue they make out of the Arena.

I told him that while 1860 does have to pay rent and operational costs at the Arena, they also draw more fans, especially from the visiting clubs, by playing at the Arena and that 1860 could keep some of that by going back to the Olympiastadion (with the parking and U-Bahn access), but could never make up that revenue by going back to Gruenwalderstadion and it would cost them money to go back because they would have to do some serious renovating to make it their full time home.

He told me the "true fans" don't care about all that, they think 1860 should return "home" to Gruenwalderstadion.

I then told him that the "true fans" should be concerned with the overall well-being of the club and not just concerned with getting their way. I told him that looking at 1860's current financial situation, a move back to Gruenwalderstadion would doom the club.

And then I found out something I've long known from my football travels, my football writing and e-mailing extensively with other football fans for about 18 years now.

That is, football fans don't like logic that doesn't support their point of view. I nearly had to knock this kid out because he scared my girlfriend when he started yelling and calling me names.

I wasn't snide, condescending or anything like you see here when I get angry. I calmly laid out the other side of this thing for this kid and he freakin' lost it.

Luckily for him, we were right at the entrance to the section I was sitting in and the ordner grabbed him and told him unless he had a ticket for that area, to move away.

Turns out he'd been listening to the entire conversation and told me not only did he think I was right about it being the best thing for the club financially to stay at the Arena, he also said, "It would be best for me because I get to keep my job!"

At least he was honest!


On another note, after the match, we went to the "Champions" Sports Bar in the Marriott Hotel to catch the Hoffenheim v. Scheisse match on Premiere with some friends.

At one point in the match, Torben Hoffmann comes in and sits at the table next to us. He was with a well-dressed woman I assumed was his girlfriend or wife. Michael Hoffman was with them in a suit. Oh, Torben was still in his training gear.

They left for a bit, but came back a short time later without the woman to continue watching the match.

Torben left before the match ended, but Michael stayed and spoke with one of my friends a bit during the match.

I didn't bother them for pictures or anything because I don't like to bother celebrities when they are out just trying to relax.

However, I will admit had it been Gregg, I might have asked him for a photo. LOL!!

Later, my girlfriend found out that 1860 was having their Christmas Party in the hotel.

Also, not long before we left, Holebas and Ledgerwood came down to the bar, but only looked around for a bit.

Those two looked younger than my son! I told my girlfriend, "I feel really old knowing I just paid 40 Euros to see those kids play football!" :D

It was great 1860 day and evening.

I guess now we'll have to see if Timo Gebhart will still be a "Loewe" after the winter break.

After watching Hoffenheim v. Schalke yesterday, Hoffenheim didn't have their best day, but I still can't see how they would give Gebhart a "first-team guarantee."

But then again, I guess that only means that he'll be on the 1st Bundesliga roster, not that he'll actually play, right??

[goindownsouth]

A draw is a draw is a draw. They needed something positive goiong into the winter break, and one point is still a point. Issues abound for this club, but we shall see. Getting Bierofka back to 100%, keeping Benny on his mini streak is important as well. Get rested, healthy. Get ready for the remainder of the term. Expectations? Play hard. Period.

I would really hate to see Gebhart leave. I have a great deal of hope for him going forward.

Not only am I frenetic, looking forward to seeing the match when I am in Germany in March, I am also leaning towards picking up one of the yellow/green third trikots, too. Something about that just intrigues me...

I am strange, I know...

[LoewenBoy]

Guys, anyone catch that match yesterday?
The atmosphere at the AA was awesome, although IMO, the FCN fans made it more than the 1860 fans. There was 57,200 people there and I think it was about 35,000 - 22,000 for FCN.
I can only say based on what I saw/heard on TV, but it looked pretty blue to me....may have beenthe TV angle. In terms of chants, I can honestly say I think I heard 1860 MUCH more than FCN. Although, they did nto seem to be as "in" to the match as I have seen say, against Augsburg.


I also thought 1860 were lucky to come out of that match with a draw. I thought FCN dominated the first half, but 1860 woke up in the second half. But 1860 earned that draw. I thought they were lucky to come out with it, but they earned it nonetheless.

As "lucky" as 1860 was to not be trailing 1-2 in the first half, I would say FCN were equally as "lucky" to not go down 2-1 in the last 20 mins. A draw was fair. Could it have gone either way? Sure, but 1860 was the better team in the last 20 mins....which is, afterall, when they actually wake up and play ball.


To be honest, you could see the difference in "class" between the two sides. 1860 were battling and FCN was clearly the more composed team.

Attributable to several factors: 1) most of the FCN guys have DEEP BL and/or national side experience, and 2) remember, 1860 is still playing with their "second" side and just infused Bierofka and Schwarz (no match play for 11 weeks) into the line-up. Hell, if Torben Hoffman had not been a sissy and actually challenged Boatyke FCN may not have scored. Instead Torben turns his back like a wuss.


Did any of you see the "Raus aus der Arena" protests??

Yeah, it was funny. The 1860 announcer on LoewenTV said, "Well, I can understand the sentiment, but does anyone think 1860 would seriously move back to the Gruenwalder and give up 57,000+ people worth of income a few times a year? People need to get realistic."


I talked with two of those guys out in the concourse before the match. I asked the first one him what is 1860's realistic alternative. He admitted he didn't know, but they just wanted out of the Arena. He said they would prefer Gruenwalder Stadion.
LOL....yeah, let's play in a stadium that has had to postpone TWO matches this season due to unplayable pitch conditions. Hell, the FCN match would not have taken place because the GW was closed for Friday's II match.:rolleyes:


I met another one and asked him the same question. He answered a bit more aggressively and made it clear they want to go back to Gruenwalderstadion.
Yeah, and I want to be 18 again, with my hair back and single (at least for a few weeks), but that ain't going to happen.


I told him that I'm sure Reuter and the others would listen if they had a realistic alternative. I also asked how 1860 would make up the lost revenue they make out of the Arena. [insert Keith's logical argument to the 1860 fan] He told me the "true fans" don't care about all that, they think 1860 should return "home" to Gruenwalderstadion.
Dude, you need to learn the German phrase for "Will there be unicorns and woodland fairies selling bier and sausages at the GW then too?"


That is, football fans don't like logic that doesn't support their point of view. I nearly had to knock this kid out because he scared my girlfriend when he started yelling and calling me names.
Dude, should have worn a Bush t-shirt and that REALLY would have set him off. I wish I had been there. Would have been laughing WAY too hard.


Turns out he'd been listening to the entire conversation and told me not only did he think I was right about it being the best thing for the club financially to stay at the Arena, he also said, "It would be best for me because I get to keep my job!"
LOL....that's great.....you stand up for his job and he keeps you safe. Well, at least keeps you from spending some time with my buddies at the Bayriche Polizei. Fact is, 1860 actually has a PLUS using the AA. Not a big one, but a +.


At one point in the match, Torben Hoffmann comes in and sits at the table next to us. He was with a well-dressed woman I assumed was his girlfriend or wife.
Wife I think. Was she hot? He has a hot blond wife (Nicole, I think). He also has a few kids. Nice guy. Did you ask him why he played like such a friggin' putz or why he turned his back like a wussy on the goal?


However, I will admit had it been Gregg, I might have asked him for a photo. LOL!!
I would have too...honestly. He seems like a very decent guy.

[panicfc]

Keith- excellent stuff. So many people out there in the footy world have no concept that its a business, a very big one at that.


--
First half - the bit I saw was all FCN - pitch and stands. Second half 1860 came out hard and the fans responded, but it all depends on mike position and all that crap.

Regardless, fun game to watch - great atmosphere.

(pneumonia update- slept 5 hours, best in 3 days - medicine cocktail. Feeling better, but worn out)

[LoewenBoy]

(pneumonia update- slept 5 hours, best in 3 days - medicine cocktail. Feeling better, but worn out)
Dude, get better. That sucks being sick. Just got over a serious sinus infection....thank God for meds.

[panicfc]

Thanks G. Small steps towards recovery.

same for 1860 and me.

;)

[LoewenBoy]

Thanks G. Small steps towards recovery.

Did they advise you to do the nebulizer? Ian did it last year and it REALLY cleared him up fast. Have had to do follow-ups throughout the year but he is finally totally over it. Took a long time. His next two colds were tough to get rid of his cough.

As for my sinus infection, my pasages were so swollen they gave me a steriod shot right at the doctor's office. Funny note: was in soccer sweats, nurse comes in to give shot, LB going commando, nurse says "drop 'em a bit" and LB complies, nurse says "you must work out" and LB says "former soccer player", nurse says "it worked".:D Think she did not want to say THAT much....told her no worries, I an FAR from PC.:cool:

[panicfc]

Did they advise you to do the nebulizer? Ian did it last year and it REALLY cleared him up fast. Have had to do follow-ups throughout the year but he is finally totally over it. Took a long time. His next two colds were tough to get rid of his cough.

As for my sinus infection, my pasages were so swollen they gave me a steriod shot right at the doctor's office. Funny note: was in soccer sweats, nurse comes in to give shot, LB going commando, nurse says "drop 'em a bit" and LB complies, nurse says "you must work out" and LB says "former soccer player", nurse says "it worked".:D Think she did not want to say THAT much....told her no worries, I an FAR from PC.:cool:

Dude! Getting hit on by the nurse, nice work.

==
No nebulizer. The cough was gone a few hours after the steroids hit the system. Haven't coughed since Friday.

Just need some sleep, hoping to take a nap in a bit

[footyfan1]

I can only say based on what I saw/heard on TV, but it looked pretty blue to me....may have beenthe TV angle. In terms of chants, I can honestly say I think I heard 1860 MUCH more than FCN. Although, they did nto seem to be as "in" to the match as I have seen say, against Augsburg.


Dude, you were getting an 1860 telecast. Trust me, I was there. That place was mostly red and black. And while the 1860 fans had their moments, the few times the fans decided to "battle" the FCN fans totally shouted down the 1860 fans.

And I wasn't closer to one set of fans than the other. I was in the middle, section 120. I walked to the other side at halftime to see who was in the deck above me.

What I saw was mostly red and black. Even in my section and those around us were mostly red and black.

And you know what Garry? I really couldn't stay neutral. I wound up cheering for 1860!


As "lucky" as 1860 was to not be trailing 1-2 in the first half, I would say FCN were equally as "lucky" to not go down 2-1 in the last 20 mins. A draw was fair. Could it have gone either way? Sure, but 1860 was the better team in the last 20 mins....which is, afterall, when they actually wake up and play ball.

Dude, I said "nevertheless, they earned the draw." I was going from who had MORE good chances to score, and even though I wanted '60 to win in the end and they had a few good chances near the end, FCN created more and looked more likely to score.

At least from my 10 rows up, midfield seat that's how it looked.


Attributable to several factors: 1) most of the FCN guys have DEEP BL and/or national side experience

The only guys who were in the FCN starting lineup who fit that full description are Marek Mintal (Slovakia/4yrs 1. BL) and Jawhar Mnari (Tunesia/3yrs 1. BL).

As far as DEEP BL experience, what do you call that? Three seasons or more??

If so, I agree with that part of your comment.

The starting FCN players who meet that criteria are goalkeeper Schaefer, defender Pinola (right at three 1. BL seasons), midfielder Kluge, striker Boakye and of course, Mintal and Mnari.

1860's starting lineup had three players with three years or more of 1. BL experience. Torben, Biero and Lauth. Beda could arguably count as he has two years in Ligue 1 (France) and one 1. Bundesliga season with FCK.

That would make it six players to four. Not that much of an advantage.

FCN has put some of those "experienced" guys on the bench in the past few weeks man.



and 2) remember, 1860 is still playing with their "second" side and just infused Bierofka and Schwarz (no match play for 11 weeks) into the line-up. Hell, if Torben Hoffman had not been a sissy and actually challenged Boatyke FCN may not have scored. Instead Torben turns his back like a wuss.

"Second side?" Who was missing from the usual starting lineup except B. Schwarz and L. Bender?? I can accept Biero's comeback as a mitigating circumstance, but from where I sat, he didn't play as badly as the kicker rankings made it out to be.

Please tell me who is still out that would have made so much of a difference?

I know you aren't going to tell me "full Loewe", but "half player" D. Schwarz???

I'm not saying 1860 had the horses on paper to run with FCN, but dude, come on, there's no one out who would have made THAT much of a difference.

I like 1860 too, but if you really think there is any way they could stand up to FCN on paper even with everyone available, there's no way I could agree with you on that.

As far as Torben turning his back on the Boakye goal, that's hard to see from in the stadium. I haven't watched highlights yet, though I might later tonight.



Yeah, it was funny. The 1860 announcer on LoewenTV said, "Well, I can understand the sentiment, but does anyone think 1860 would seriously move back to the Gruenwalder and give up 57,000+ people worth of income a few times a year? People need to get realistic."

I'm with that guy. People need to get freakin' realistic. During the match, my girlfriend asked me the difference and I said to her, "Do you remember when we were in Dortmund and I showed you Stadion Rote Erde (BVB's "traditional" home and the amateurs still play there) right next to Westfalenstadion?" She said she did and I then told her, "Imagine BVB having to pay rent to Schalke (of course, I used another name ;)) and the 64,000 BVB fans in the Westfalenstadion that day (well, there were 67,000 there, but about 3,000 of them were Wolfsburg fans)were protesting saying that BVB should move back over to Stadion Rote Erde. How much sense would that make?"

She got it then.

Stadion Rote Erde isn't much different from Gruenwalderstadion. It "holds" 25,000 people, but there are only 3,000 seats and not much has been done along the lines of improvements in the last few years.


LOL....yeah, let's play in a stadium that has had to postpone TWO matches this season due to unplayable pitch conditions. Hell, the FCN match would not have taken place because the GW was closed for Friday's II match.:rolleyes:

Tell me about it. LOL!!


Yeah, and I want to be 18 again, with my hair back and single (at least for a few weeks), but that ain't going to happen.

I hear you! Well, I don't know about the single part. You did well for yourself bro.


Dude, you need to learn the German phrase for "Will there be unicorns and woodland fairies selling bier and sausages at the GW then too?"

LMAO!! Had I known how to say something like that, we probably would have come to blows! LOL!!!


Dude, should have worn a Bush t-shirt and that REALLY would have set him off.

If I even owned one of those, I'd be wondering what the f#ck is wrong with me.....

That being said, I'm not going to go out and buy a "hero shirt" of the shoe thrower either! LOL!!!

I've f#ckin' seen it all now! LMAO!! :D


I wish I had been there. Would have been laughing WAY too hard.

You probably would have been. I think with me, it's amazing how much better my Deutsch gets with bier and gluehwein........


LOL....that's great.....you stand up for his job and he keeps you safe. Well, at least keeps you from spending some time with my buddies at the Bayriche Polizei. Fact is, 1860 actually has a PLUS using the AA. Not a big one, but a +.

The ordner did keep me out of trouble. That kid scared Wendy and if he'd stepped forward, I would have knocked his silly ass out.


Wife I think. Was she hot? He has a hot blond wife (Nicole, I think). He also has a few kids. Nice guy.


Yes, very hot young blonde lady.


Did you ask him why he played like such a friggin' putz or why he turned his back like a wussy on the goal?

LOL!! Of course not, I let the dude watch the match in peace.....


I would have too...honestly. He (Gregg) seems like a very decent guy.

I think so. Plus, I would have used the "Fellow American" card on him. I'd also be honest with him about how much hell we used to give him two seasons ago! LOL!!!

[footyfan1]

As for my sinus infection, my pasages were so swollen they gave me a steriod shot right at the doctor's office. Funny note: was in soccer sweats, nurse comes in to give shot, LB going commando, nurse says "drop 'em a bit" and LB complies, nurse says "you must work out" and LB says "former soccer player", nurse says "it worked".:D Think she did not want to say THAT much....told her no worries, I an FAR from PC.:cool:


You DA MAN!!! :D

[footyfan1]

This "tz" article (http://www.tz-online.de/de/sport/mehrsport/artikel_53745.html) speculates that former SpVgg Unterhaching and current 1899 Hoffenheim veteran Jochen Seitz could be on 1860's radar along with young Wolfsburg talent and former Greuther Fürth player Daniel Adlung (21).

The first part of the article points out 1860's "lucky" draw against FCN and goes into the team's offensive problems.

I totally agree with the comments. Watching 1860 reminded me of watching BVB. Both teams have pathetic offenses for their level of football.......

I found out from another source that Seitz is expected to be released by Hoffenheim, which would make his a free transfer.

Hoffenheim has already released midfielder Francisco Copado.

This is another reason I don't think Gebhart going to Hoffenheim makes sense. Not saying it won't happen, but it doesn't make sense to me.

They aren't releasing these guys to make room for Gebhart. They are releasing these guys because there's simply no room for them.

Here's the Copado story.

Transfermarkt.de: 1899 Hoffenheim Releases Midfielder Copado (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/news/24589/vertrag-aufgeloest-copado-verlaesst-hoffenheim.html)

[footyfan1]

Garry, I just read some of the comments left by fans under this article (http://www.tz-online.de/de/sport/tsv1860/artikel_53655.html) in "tz".

Man, this is why I don't hang with too many other rabid fans of one team.

Too many of them are simply idiots. :rolleyes:

[LoewenBoy]

Garry, I just read some of the comments left by fans under this article (http://www.tz-online.de/de/sport/tsv1860/artikel_53655.html) in "tz".

Man, this is why I don't hang with too many other rabid fans of one team.

Too many of them are simply idiots. :rolleyes:
Yeah, I had the same argument with the guys on my team when I played for the police team; they were just blue-blinded idiots.

I do like the one post from the guy that says 90% of all Loewenfans do not have a clue on how finances work and their impact on the club, and that many of the suggestions on the list would bankrupt the team.:D

[LoewenBoy]

I found out from another source that Seitz is expected to be released by Hoffenheim, which would make his a free transfer.

Hoffenheim has already released midfielder Francisco Copado.
I don't think 1860 would take Copado...he is just too old. At 34 taking him would just mean nothing.

Seitz is a bit younger at 32, but not sure 1860 would take him either unless they lose someone important like Gebhart.'

Both Reuter and Kurz are on record as saying they need someone in the 24-30 range, not older. Not saying they would not take someone for a 1 year contract, but is my guess some other team would come in and get these guys for longer than 1860 may want to sign them.

[footyfan1]

I don't think 1860 would take Copado...he is just too old. At 34 taking him would just mean nothing.

Seitz is a bit younger at 32, but not sure 1860 would take him either unless they lose someone important like Gebhart.'

Both Reuter and Kurz are on record as saying they need someone in the 24-30 range, not older. Not saying they would not take someone for a 1 year contract, but is my guess some other team would come in and get these guys for longer than 1860 may want to sign them.


Dude, this team could use some more experience in midfield. Even if they were on the bench, coming from the first place team in the 1st Bundesliga could mean something.

You said something about not being sure 1860 would take one of these guys unless they lose Gebhart.

Well, what happens if Gebhart gets hurt? Where is 1860 then??

If the money just isn't there, I understand. Neither of these guys are stars and they are "old", but there is a such thing as having a squad that is "too young."

Apparently, the experienced 1860 players just aren't leaders. Seitz at least has been a "leader" in the past.

I'm sorry, from where I sit, 1860 can't afford to be picky man......