MLS Playoffs and US Nationals [R]

[nancyb]

What I liked about the seim-finals of the MLS playoffs were the contributions of potential US national team players to big plays in the games. Just looking at the scoring summaries says good things for the national team. In the San Jose/KC game, all goals had a US national credited with either the goal or an assist. Of the players involved in those 5 goals who are Americans, we have:

Chris Klein - a goal and an assist for KC; a number of US caps and likely to get called in for some qualifiers

Donovan - a goal and an assist for SJ. I'd say it's a given he'll be there in the next round.

Brian Mullan - his bio on the SJ site says he was born in 1968. I think they may be off by a decade or two if he was the 1997 Gatorade Colorado High School player of the year. :rolleyes: Looks like he could have some national team potential.

Ian Russell, Manny Lagos and Troy Dayak - Well, don't know about them and the national team, but still, good to see so many potential national teamers putting points up on the scoreboard.


As for the Chicago/NE game - Chris Armas notched the winner and I don't think there's any doubt we'll see him during qualifying.

[ursula]

Originally posted by nancyb

Brian Mullan - his bio on the SJ site says he was born in 1968. I think they may be off by a decade or two if he was the 1997 Gatorade Colorado High School player of the year.


Let's just say that he's not very bright.


But he is experienced.

[beineke]

I hope national team fans are watching these games, in part because there has been some tremendous soccer, but also because we've seen some clear illustrations that players like Armas, Klein, and Mulrooney are a cut above most MLSers. These guys clearly belong in the national team set-up.

And boy oh boy, Jamil Walker has come out of nowhere. He's worth keeping an eye on ...

[Karl K]

Originally posted by nancyb
As for the Chicago/NE game - Chris Armas notched the winner and I don't think there's any doubt we'll see him during qualifying.

Originally posted by beineke
we've seen some clear illustrations that Armas. . .[is] a cut above most MLSers. Th[is] guy clearly belong[s] in the national team set-up.


What's the over/under on the instant that

(a) someone will come along in this thread and say Armas isn't "skilled" enough, doesn't attack enough, yada yada yada....to play at the international level and

(b) someone will come along and say Pablo Mastroeni is better

(c) when Armas DOES get called into camp, someone will start a/contribute to a thread uttering both (a) and (b)??

[lurking]

Mullan was born in 1978 not 1968, as he is currently 25. Was fun watching him in the last two games, as hes completely abused the players marking him. I just wish SJ would get him a few more touches earlier in games.

Mulrooney is actually a very good attacking player, and hes been able to show it in these games. With Armas's play of late I think the issue with players we've brought in at D-Mid has been shown to be not nescessarily the players fault for not contributing offensively, but a system that severely restricts their ability to contribute.

[Nutmeg]

I decided to take a little trip down to the Bay Area this weekend. I figured after the amazing game last week, this would be a game worth seeing. So a couple of college buddies, both of whom I consider extremely knowledgeable soccer fans, and I went to the San Jose v Wizards game. Neither have really followed MLS, but they both will now. All three of us left not so much impressed by Donovan or Walker (although they played excellent soccer), but Mulrooney and Mullan. Having watched every Quakes playoff game, I cannot see how anyone would disagree that Mullan is a top candidate for a spot at RM on the MNT. And Mulrooney? He's the best two-way American midfielder in MLS, period. I've said it a few times elsewhere, but in my opinion he is the most underrated player in the league. The Quakes' success or lack thereof lies not so much with Landon, but with Mulrooney. When he is on, the Quakes win.

I watched the Revs-Fire game on Friday, too. I thought Curtin and Bocanegra were pure class. New England really didn't have a dangerous chance in the run of play, mostly because neither player ever lost track of the game. They were great. I thought Justin Mapp was explosive. The best player out on the field in the short minutes he received. I have underestimated his athleticism, but he blew right by the Revs defense and served up the game winning goal on a can't-miss silver platter. We'll see how he does for the U20's in UAE very shortly. Chris Armas has been very, very good for the Fire. But I'll take Karl's over/under here by saying that I would rate him as the third best DMid in MLS behind Mulrooney and yes, Mastroeni. That said, he should and probably will be in the next camp. His age and history of knee problems is a concern, but with Qualifying around the corner, his experience is a luxury worth having.

So we'll see how Armas, Bocanegra, Beasley, Razov, Mapp, Mulrooney, Walker, Donovan, Mullan, and any other current and/or prospective Nats I'm leaving out do in the biggest game of the year. IMO, I think this has the potential to be the most exciting and best played finals in MLS Cup history, which is why the afore mentioned friends and I will be heading down the the HDC to catch it. I can't wait.

[Karl K]

Originally posted by Nutmeg
Chris Armas has been very, very good for the Fire. But I'll take Karl's over/under here by saying that I would rate him as the third best DMid in MLS behind Mulrooney and yes, Mastroeni. That said, he should and probably will be in the next camp. His age and history of knee problems is a concern, but with Qualifying around the corner, his experience is a luxury worth having.

Slightly more than 12 hours. A lot longer than I would have expected.

Right now, at this moment, Chris Armas has the most complete game of any player who would get slotted into the USMNT d-mid role on the following dimensions:

--Leadership

--Mental toughness and determination

--Positioning

--Attack organization

--Defensive reorganization

--Passing

--Ball winning

--Work rate

That may change, and probably will change, over the next 18-24 months.

But now, right now, he's at the top of the heap.

[Nutmeg]

I disagree on almost every one of those points, but as player evaluation is pretty subjective and nobody is going to be persuaded away from their position, I'll leave the Armas argument alone.

[Ringo]

Originally posted by nancyb

Ian Russell, Manny Lagos and Troy Dayak - Well, don't know about them and the national team, but still, good to see so many potential national teamers putting points up on the scoreboard.

Can we stop mentioning Manny Lagos and national team in the same sentence? not even a potential national teamer. right now I don't even like his chances of making the quakes next year. Great guy, but boy has he fallen.

russell? no shot. Dayak? Love -- absolutely love -- this guy. but no shot. too old, for onething.


Mullan though, there's somebody to keep an eye on. he beats guys off the dribble, he tracks back on defense ... I think Bruce has to give him a look.


One thing that the playoffs have confirmed to me, though ... Armas is back and our best option at Central Mid. Pablo, while tremendous at the world cup --- his 15 minutes are up. It's Armas' job, as it should be.

[Karl K]

Originally posted by Nutmeg
I disagree on almost every one of those points, but as player evaluation is pretty subjective and nobody is going to be persuaded away from their position, I'll leave the Armas argument alone.

Makes the world go round, as they say.

But you will have the enviable opportunity to see the key parties in person, and thus have an opportunity to revise your judgments, if appropriate, based on direct viewing.

As the great Yogi Berra said, "You can observe a lot by watching."

I am highly confident that you will observe a lot.

[Martin Fischer]

Well, I will adress Karl's points about Armas versus the other dmid candidates-- here is how I rate Armas, Mulrooney, Mastroeni and, yes, Rico Clark. Unfortunately, I have not seen enough of Kyle Beckerman to include him in this analysis, though from what I have seen he could belong soon. Karl's categories -- and a few more relevant ones -- with the contenders ranked from best to worst in each category:

Leadership: Armas, Mulrooney, Mastroeni, Clark

Mental toughness and determination: Armas, Mulrooney, Clark, Mastroeni

Positioning: Armas, Mastroeni, Mulrooney, Clark

Attack organization: Mulrooney, Armas, Mastroeni, Clark

Defensive reorganization: Armas, Mastroeni, Mulrooney, Clark

Passing: Mulrooney, Clark, Armas, Mastroeni

Ball winning: Armas, Mastroeni, Mulrooney, Clark

Work rate: Armas, Mastroeni, Clark, Mulrooney

Ball Control: Mastroeni, Mulrooney, Clark, Armas

Physical dominance: Clark, Mastroeni, Armas, Mulrooney

Shooting: Clark, Mulrooney, Armas, Mastroeni

Dribbling: Clark, Mastroeni, Mulrooney, Armas

Developing a quantitative rating right now, I get the following:

Armas -- 35
Mulrooney -- 30
Mastroeni -- 29
Clark -- 26.

Of course, numbers are just numbers. With the exception of Clark, who is not ready, I might go with any of these guys depending on who is avaialble and the opponent. One key factor would be who the other central midfielder was going to be. If it is Reyna, JOB or even Convey, then I would probably prefer Mulrooney for most opponents as those guys carry their defensive weight and make Armas' virtues less critical. Now if Kyle Martino or Donovan are playing in the midfield, then Armas looks more complimentary.

[nancyb]

Originally posted by Ringo1725
Can we stop mentioning Manny Lagos and national team in the same sentence? not even a potential national teamer. right now I don't even like his chances of making the quakes next year. Great guy, but boy has he fallen.

russell? no shot. Dayak? Love -- absolutely love -- this guy. but no shot. too old, for onething.


Mullan though, there's somebody to keep an eye on. he beats guys off the dribble, he tracks back on defense ... I think Bruce has to give him a look.


One thing that the playoffs have confirmed to me, though ... Armas is back and our best option at Central Mid. Pablo, while tremendous at the world cup --- his 15 minutes are up. It's Armas' job, as it should be.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply they'd actually be in the picture. I guess the main point I was trying to drive home in my post is most of the goals in the games were from the home boys, rather than internationals.

[Nutmeg]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer

Martin, excellent breakdown. I like this since it does not focus on one particular player, but instead attempts to objectively rank each player by category. Here is where I would disagree with your assessments, with a brief explanation of why I would disagree. In general, though, I thought your post rates a 5 out of 5:

Leadership: Mulrooney, Armas, Mastroeni, Clark

When San Jose fell down to LA and then again to KC, it was Mulrooney who rallied the troops in midfield, organized the team, and led ferocious comebacks in (IMO) two of the best games ever played in MLS.

Mental toughness and determination: Mulrooney, Armas, Clark, Mastroeni

Again, the sheer determination and will-power, and never-say-die attitude of Mulrooney in the last two games was unbelievable.

Work rate: Armas, Mulrooney, Mastroeni, Clark

I see Armas and Mulrooney as neck and neck, and Mastroeni and Clark somewhat further behind. Mulrooney was a midfield monster in both games.

Dribbling: Clark, Mulrooney, Mastroeni, Armas

Mulrooney, IMO, is the best of the four players of knowing when and more importantly, when NOT to carry the ball on the dribble. As for one-touch, accurate, incisive passing, Mulrooney is the very best in this group.


Of course, numbers are just numbers. With the exception of Clark, who is not ready, I might go with any of these guys depending on who is avaialble and the opponent. One key factor would be who the other central midfielder was going to be. If it is Reyna, JOB or even Convey, then I would probably prefer Mulrooney for most opponents as those guys carry their defensive weight and make Armas' virtues less critical. Now if Kyle Martino or Donovan are playing in the midfield, then Armas looks more complimentary.

I agree with this entirely. The central midfield should be about balance, and if we have an all-out attacker like Donovan or Martino, we need a defensive guy like Armas to balance things out. I also happen to believe that in certain scenarios, there is no better DMid in the US pool than Chris Armas. In other situations, I would prefer someone like Mulrooney or Mastroeni. For example - the central midfield combination of John O'brien and Pablo Mastroeni was a well-balanced combination that produced big-time results in Korea, and if those two are healthy and available, I would go with them as the starting combination against most of our CONCACAF opponents.

It isn't so much about player X vs player Y, but about what combinations and what scenarios create a competitive advantage. I think all three of Armas, Mulrooney, and Mastroeni all make the US a better team, and I hope each of them are healthy, in-form, and successful for Arena going forward.

[appoo]

my own thoughts on this are to wait for the MLS Cup before going into Mulrooney vs Armas. They'll get really tested in that game. And considering the pressure of the situation its a great place to grade the two.

[zcgf02]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer

The central midfield should be about balance, and if we have an all-out attacker like Donovan or Martino, we need a defensive guy like Armas to balance things out...

It isn't so much about player X vs player Y, but about what combinations and what scenarios create a competitive advantage. I think all three of Armas, Mulrooney, and Mastroeni all make the US a better team, and I hope each of them are healthy, in-form, and successful for Arena going forward.

Well said, Martin.

I have to admit (and this is going to sound terrible) I was a little relieved when Armas went down last year before the Cup.

But the Fire games I've watched this year have changed my mind. The guy is solid AND skillful - more than I ever thought he was.

Regarding Mulrooney: I've felt that he was the Quakes MVP all year and he's proved that the last two weekends.

Finally, I still Pablo, but I didn't watch many Rapids games so I can't comment on his current form.

But the bottom line: We've got three d-mids with experience in big games who can contribute to the USMNT. And as Martha Stewart would say: "Don't these prison uniforms come in any other color?"

Er, I mean, "It's a good thing."

[zcgf02]

Oh, and I've really been impressed by Brian Mullan this year too. He played a game equivalent to that of Chris Klien, who has been a regular in USMNT camps for a while now. I'd really like to see Mullan get some looks from Arena.

[Martin Fischer]

Nutmeg thanks.

As for our disagreements, I unfortunately only see one MLS game a week, so I am not necessarily the best judge. I also want to add that my rankings are crude in that they don't take into account degrees of difference. For example, I think Mulrooney is very close to Armas in mental toughness, but has a much bigger advantage in passing.

Anyway, these guys are all good in my book and I look forward to becoming more educated by watching MLS Cup.

[lmorin]

Armas has been a very pleasant surprise with respect to his footwork and passing recently. I think it has been significantly better than before his injury. Mullan could be considered (so far) the San Jose playoff MVP. He has kept opponents way off balance and, as a result, provided Donovan a lot more space and opportunity with which to work.

[Nutmeg]

Originally posted by Karl Keller
I am highly confident that you will observe a lot.

I did. But before I give my assessment of the performance of Armas and Mulrooney today, let me ask you - do you still believe Armas is a better player?

Honest question.

[Nutmeg]

So using Karl's and Martin's criteria, I've listed who played better between Armas and Mulrooney in the MLS Cup in each area:

Leadership: Mulrooney

Mental toughness and determination: Mulrooney

Positioning: Mulrooney - by far

Attack organization: Mulrooney - not even close

Defensive reorganization: Mulrooney

Passing: Mulrooney - the two aren't even in the same league

Ball winning: Mulrooney

Work rate: Mulrooney

Ball Control: Mulrooney

Physical dominance: Mulrooney

Shooting: Mulrooney

Dribbling: Mulrooney