How does your background affect the way you view games?

[J'can]

I am not sure this requires a new thread and it appears to be non-United specific. But as a disclaimer I wanted it confined to the United forum since I am looking for the response of our supporters (or people who read our forum) so I can understand some of the views expressed on here.

Another note before I delve in: by background (in the thread titile) I mean in terms of if you played the game and the positon you played, type of team and level. Also note that not because you prefer a certain style as I am about to explain does not mean you cant understand other style or how the game has evolved.

Here now is the question further explained.

In the thread discussion here (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=789135&page=18) the perspective vary widely and I genuinely look at what other people are saying to see what their position is as it relates to the team.

Now, I like to see attacking football that is pleasing on the eyes. But I see the game first as a chess match and on the defensive side first. I beleive in not conceding beleiving that a clean sheet puts you in the best position to win a game as opposed to outscoring your opponents, Now I am not saying that is what some advocates in the link above are about. Just stating my view and preference.

When I played I fancied myself as a midfielder (but mostly played in defense) but more as a defensive midfielder who could control the game first defenisvely ad then have that translate on the offensive third. I believe when I played that controlling the middle of the park (defensivley) is the key. Most of my memories when I played came from the defensive side: shutting down an opponent who many considered dangerous, a crunching tackle, a smart interception, harassing the daylights out of an opponent till he gives the ball up) That is why I like Roy Keane, Jose Mourinho and Dunga among others like him. If I had to pick one player I could be most like on the field it would be Keane. If I had to pick a coach for my team it would be Mourinho. And most of it goes back to how I played and what I favored. That is why I am slightly annoyed at how Berbs appears when he plays.

That is not to say that I dont like the technique and skill at the opposite end of the field. RVN is one of my favorites, the flowing samba football of Brazil back in the day I still remember with a smile, the 1999 treble with our four strikers made me thiink we could score at will and at any time and so on and so forth.

But there is a hint of bias to shore up defensively and not over commit offensively. That is not to say I dont understand the attacking game. It is mouthwatering to see the interchange among Rooney CRon Tevez and now Berbs. But I always go back to how does that impact our game on the defensive side.

I guess to some extent how I played the game results in some hints of bias which is why I put limitations on playing all four or our Big 4 togehter at the same time. (Please, this is not to be taken as another debate as to can it work or not) I am just trying to see if anyone else finds that they gravitate somehow to one side or another based on thier experiecnes.

Anyone care to share? (Or will the mods delete this and ban me for the rest of the season?)

[Harry Boulton]

I was always played at right-back (easiest position on the pitch if you ask me) in 11-a-side but in 5-a-side I was always played up top. I'm not a big lad but fairly strong so I can hold the ball up and bring others in from there, which is what 5-a-side is all about. I can't beat a man to save my life but I could usually finish 1 out of every 3 chances that came my way.

At 11-a-side I played fullback because I used to have a turn of pace, but I was always rubbish at the off-side trap. Not only that but I'd go bnucaneering up the touch line and leave us short on the flanks if we lost possesion.

Because I played in both attack and defence I like to think I have an open minded opinion on how the game is best played. I 100% appreciate the roles played by the likes of Makelele because, even though they are sometimes referred to as "spoilers" and negative players, I appreciate the hard work and focus they have to have. For me, the temptation to go forward, even from right back, was so strong it killed me at times, yet from midfeld he always stays focused on the role.

The biggest influence on my football life though was, and this will get derided by some I fear, Football Italia on channel 4.

When this was on TV it made me wake up to the game on a global level. That there was more to life than Stan Collymoore, Dalian Atkinson and Ian Crook in the EPL. It was then that I started real;ly taking an interest in fotball to a much deeper level than just watching and playing. You learn players, clubs, managers, styles, formatins, tactics, the lot......

[Achtung]

I think I tend to admire from afar players who had the same style as I did. The midfielders who win the ball, distribute, occasionally move forward to shoot, etc. I guess I probably got forward more than I should have, so it's always interesting to see players who are more disciplined than I ever was (if only we'd had FSC when I was 12!).

But like the most muppety out there, I am drawn to watch the guys who can do what I never could. Maybe it's out of jealousy, but I always just have to watch and marvel at our R-R-T from last season, and what occasionally the Arsenals, Brazils, Madrids, and Barcelonas can pull off from time to time. Although to be fair, I don't think any of us in here is capable of that. You just have to watch... and appreciate it.

Something that I generally can't do is objectively analyze the game while I'm watching it live. I rarely make note of things like a player's positioning or how tactically sound we may be during a specific period. When a player loses the ball, I think I'm more focused on who's going to get it back, not concentrating on the guy who lost it. Similarly I don't always count how many players get taken out by a pass, just whether the pass in question puts the ball into a better position. Guess I'm no Alan Hansen. ;)

I think that in the US we're not exposed to the tactics or the nuances of the game at a young age, which hinders our ability to appreciate the game nearly as much. A lot of us read these forums, other analysis sites, and download copies of MOTD simply because there is a dearth of information here. We pretty much have to in order to get an in-depth understanding of the game.


The biggest influence on my football life though was, and this will get derided by some I fear, Football Italia on channel 4.


James Richardson. :cool:

[Achtung]

Now, I like to see attacking football that is pleasing on the eyes. But I see the game first as a chess match and on the defensive side first. I beleive in not conceding beleiving that a clean sheet puts you in the best position to win a game as opposed to outscoring your opponents, Now I am not saying that is what some advocates in the link above are about. Just stating my view and preference.


I forget who said it, but I like the quote "If you've got the ball in your opponent's half of the field, then they're probably not going to score".

I think having a rock-solid defense is key to doing this though. You're unlikely to push forward if you're not convinced that the guys behind you can cover if you do give it away.

I know I've played on teams both with terrible goalkeepers and defenders and teams with great ones. And it's no surprise that on the latter type of team we tended to score more goals.

[benni...]

Dont mean to sound cocky or whatever words you use... My football background causes me to be too critical of players. I play in teams where players rarely miscontrol or trap a pass. We play 1 ro 2 touch all practice long and we play on crappy pitches. We play with balls that are far from official standards at times.

So when I see our team performing poorly, I get agitated.

I know NM and the other top reds wont like this, but my two favourte players [apart from Rio] are Mascherano and Toulalan. I've played that position a lot lately, and its fun playing dirty...

[johno]

The biggest influence on how I watch games is actually, watching games. Sounds silly, but I've played all over. As a youth I played SS/CAM, LW and GK. As an adolescent I played DM/CB/LB... as a young adult/adult I played LB and GK and a bit of CB too.

Maybe with all those positions played I don't have a home position and as such cannot be swayed, however I'll tell you what sways me. Watching games live. When you see the game being played properly at any level live, it changes how you look at matches on TV.

Holding a position where I was able/required to watch 4 or 5 full matches a week for a couple years and then watch tape of them as well, I can tell you that I fully understand what it is to watch a match on TV and to watch a match live. My appreciation for the small things, movement off the ball, positioning and timing is finely tuned. Of course I love to see party tricks and good 1v1 play, but I'd much rather see someone like Rossi play than someone like Ronaldo of 2 years ago.

I fell in love with a school team that I saw play 4 times in the space of a month and to see players not gifted but skilled nonetheless execute perfectly the 442 of the late 90s was a thing of beauty.

I guess for me, the players who seem most important when I watch live, are the ones that I value the most. Players who never lose the ball, who seem to always have time to play and those who make their teammates better always impress me.

[Chaz Striker]

Great thread.

First, I'd like to start off with a quote just like Mr. Danger. I don't know who said it but "defense wins championships." I have an incredible appreciation for great defenses.

Like Achtung said, in the U.S. we never as young kids get exposed to tactics at a young age. Hell, where I grew up you would be lucky to be taught how not to toe poke the ball by age ten.

Now I have an serious appreciation for tactics and the posts that the leaders on this board make in relation to our team and just general tactics(Cheers to you fellas. You know who you are.).

In high school I started out playing as a winger. Which now that I think about it was quite awkward because I'm 6'4" and slow as a snail (especially as a sophomore and junior in high school. Man I was clumsy.). I was always decent at crossing the ball though. Then as a senior I started playing in midfield and striker.

In college I played as a holding midfielder. I could do the passing, but I failed overall. Now I am back to that striker position for the club team.

I think that everyone idolizes and tries to emulate those players that are just sooo good at the same position. That is why I have always had a fondness for RVN. He has always been my favorite player. I have never been like him for the simple fact that I don't finish like he does, nor do I try.

Now I see that I actually play a lot like Berba. Or he plays like me :D. I hold the ball and I have decent passing abilities.

My friends and I sit around and watch the games. Every once and a while the same conversation comes up. "MAN they are sooo good!" We watch these players and I'm just in awe. I think about how they got there. What steps they took to be where they are. I think about how many people got so close but didn't make it. I think about how I wouldn't even be able to play in the eightieth league down from the premiership. I think about if I might have been able to make it just like them. If only my circumstances had been better. DAMN MY PARENTS FOR NOT RAISING ME IN A SOCCER THRIVING COMMUNITY IN MANCHESTER!

I think all of us have these thoughts from time to time. Or maybe I'm just crazy.

Again,

Great Thread.

[schafer]

But like the most muppety out there, I am drawn to watch the guys who can do what I never could. Maybe it's out of jealousy, but I always just have to watch and marvel at our R-R-T from last season, and what occasionally the Arsenals, Brazils, Madrids, and Barcelonas can pull off from time to time. Although to be fair, I don't think any of us in here is capable of that. You just have to watch... and appreciate it.


It's funny cause I'm the same but in a different way, if that makes sense. When I watch players like Makelele I always marvel at their ability to just be in the right place at the right time. Having tried to emulate that deeper role when I've played in central midfield (due mostly to my nearly complete ineptitude in front of goal :o) it's really given me an appreciation for the subtleties required to play there. If you're a metre or two away from where you should be then that can open up a huge opportunity for the opposition, so to see a guy like Maka consistently shutting teams down is unreal for me. He's definitely one of the players I most wish I could have seen live.

I guess for me, the players who seem most important when I watch live, are the ones that I value the most. Players who never lose the ball, who seem to always have time to play and those who make their teammates better always impress me.

Same. There was this one guy I played against a few years ago for my club team who was just unbelievable, he never got out of a jog but just controlled the game and had us running around chasing shadows. He stood out far more for me than any of the flashy/tricky or pacy guys that I ever played against. It was humiliating but pretty unbelievable to see as well.

Great thread btw.

[SirManchester]

To me the most difficult role has always been in central midfield, a Makalele,Sammer or Toulalan, who can read the game to perfection and are in most cases the heart of the team, responsible for the defensive aspects as well as controlling the tempo and kickstarting counters.

I started out as a laterall defender and for most of my life I've played upfront as a striker. Then I grew tired of waiting for the ball to come to me so I got more involved deeper in the field. When I stopped playing for school teams and picked up casual playing (because that's all that my schedule allows nowadays) I've liked going back to defense and oftentimes playing destroyer in midfield. It's fantastic to see a dribbler coming towards you and then suprising him with a clean tackle or sometimes just putting in a dirty tackle. My instinct is still to go for goal because I've played striker for most of my life but my appreciation has gone beyond the position. I enjoy the subtleties of the game, how a retainer like Scholes and Xavi can take complete control of a game and run it, or how a tactical defender can change the course of a counter with a feint of his body. I've said this before, I will always choose the more intelligent footballer than the more physically fit one, and nowadays it's almost always more beneficial to have the latter.

[johno]

Same. There was this one guy I played against a few years ago for my club team who was just unbelievable, he never got out of a jog but just controlled the game and had us running around chasing shadows. He stood out far more for me than any of the flashy/tricky or pacy guys that I ever played against. It was humiliating but pretty unbelievable to see as well.


At our regular pick up games, there's a guy, short, overweight and regular looking. I always play on his team when I have the chance because just like your guy, he never stretches himself but always dictates play. Most players like that I've come across can't really explain how or what or why they do. They just kinda do what has always been natural for them.

[J'can]

Benni: I can relate to the whole crappy pitch thing. We played in Jamaica on a field that was part dirt part half dead grass that was uneven and you had to worry more about twisting your ankle from stepping in a rut than the 747 looking to crash in your back. Becasue of that the emphasis was controling the ball under pressure and keeping it, shielding it and playing off intelligent passes. Now when I see players execute this it pleases me immensely.

One difference since coming here to the States is that I watch the games alone. Back in Jamaica I would watch the games (mostly World Cup ) with friends and we all would point out things that others may have missed. I remember a firend saying that Brazil played a well organized defense in the 94 World Cup. Years later I read a coaching manual and they referred to how Brazil played in the 94 WC and how effective it was. SOB was right.

I also remember anotehr person saying that the Dutch were the best team in that competition. Of course I disagreed and still do but looking back at his explanation now he made sense using the knowledge I gained over the years. At least now I can appreciate it. I miss the interaction among knowledgeable soccer fans and I suppose to some extent that has been replcaed by the folks here on BS. Thanks GOD for technology.

Drawing a parallel here to the United team (and this is definitely a bias comng out from how I learned the game) I went back and looked at all our results so far this year and realized that we scored in every game and I belive took the lead in the games we dropped points. We couldnt hold the lead and defend it and that pisses me off. It tells me that offensively we are doing our job but defensively we are shirking our duties (coaches and tactics be damed). Because I was always taught that the coaches dont play the players do and if we need to grind out a one nil win we should be able to. I have a low tolerance level for that.