Credit crisis? Not in Vancouver!

[Johnnie Monster]

Kerfoot's about to drop $25 million on yet another training facility for the Whitecaps, this time in the Vancouver suburb of Delta.

Bare bones details:

Whitecaps have signed an MOU with Delta council to reach a 60 year lease of a big portion of John Oliver Park, including new fields, training & sports medicine facilities and renos to restore & incorporate a historic barn on the site.

http://www.canada.com/deltaoptimist/news/story.html?id=bf7899de-eaf4-4b22-9b3e-72d12dd7a781

This is the second such facility Kerfoot will have built for his club - the first was a $10 million training centre at Simon Fraser University. I get the sense from the article that the Whitecaps women's team are going to stay at SFU, and the Whitecaps men will train in Delta. Expect the Canadian nats to make use of Delta too once it's done.

The Whitecaps also have 28 youth teams (male and female), a prospects club in the PCSL and a residency club in the PDL. We'll see where those clubs are all allocated to for training in the near future.

[PG Tips]

This is great and all but why doesn't Kerfoot get some of that money and buy another chunk of land so he can build this damn stadium we've been waiting for.

Build it in the Bridgeport area of Richmond which will have metro access. Or even Surrey now, which has rail access. I don't care, but if he doesn't sort this stadium out then Van will never get a MLS franchise. Right now it's looking really dim, especially with the likes of Miami probably taking a spot. Errg.

[dewhitecapfan]

The Stadium needs to be downtown in my opinion. Both Surrey and Richmond does not have good enough public transit. Crossing the port man for games would suck, driving into Richmond could be even worse.

[JohnnyRanger]

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and thinks everyone else's stinks.

I feel that the Stadium should go Downtown, either at the Waterfront site, or at the False Creek Flats. Reasons: Perfect blend of Drivers and Transit. Nightlife and Entertainment within walking distance.

If you build this thing in an Industrial Area in Richmond or Surrey, people will not come to the games in the same numbers, and those that do will mostly drive, and there is nothing to do pre and post game entertainment and food/beverage wise.

[Johnnie Monster]

Fully agree with JR on this, always have:

Successful soccer in North America is no longer just about soccer. Game day / night MUST be an experience that transcends the 90 minutes on the pitch. That's what keeps this little engine called "casual support" running, and it accounts for a huge portion of ticket sales.

Case in point: One of the reasons Toronto, Montreal and Portland draw great crowds is because they have downtown "big city" stadia within easy walking distance of pre/post match bevvies, dining, entertainment etc.

Now look at Swangard in Burnaby. Talk about a pain in the arse location.

- transit station #1 is a Skytrain that is four blocks away at the bottom of a very steep hill

- transit station #2 is another Skytrain station, albeit one on level terrain. So what's the problem? You are forced ot walk through an unlit, wooded area notorious for muggings, drug dealing and sex assaults.

-sure you can drive, except you're stuck in one of the most gridlocked traffic areas in the region...

- ...and as for parking? Talk about extremely short supply!

- no grub within walking distance

- no pubs within walking distance

All other alternative sites in the Lower Mainland outside of the downtown core are in the industrial and agricultural lands, which means they are no bettter off than Swangard.

Kerfoot's right to stick this out - the Caps brand will grow at BC Place, even while remaining in the USL. If we go MLS at BC Place or in a downtown location (waterfront or False Creek) we're golden.

[PG Tips]

Everyone wants the stadium downtown for obvious reasons. At Waterfront it would be one of the most accessible stadiums in the world in regards to public transport; metro, commuter rail, tram/streetcar, bus, ferry, helicopters(if they don't move).

False Creek Flats are out due to St Paul's moving into the last large bit of land on the north side of Pacific Station. The other bits of land around the Flats are spoken for. Finning lands are being developed and the rest is railway land, which isn't going to be touched.

If, they can't build downtown then a spot in the Richmond Bridgeport Area Plan could be interesting. It would have a Canada Line station and it's transportation hub including park and ride; which that connects directly to the River Rock Casino Resort expansion project; the Bridgeport plan it to build a high street with density, commercial, and new living. The plans will have it become a regional city-centre. Richmond will be booming and a stadium could be in the thick of it.

[Johnnie Monster]

Which brings us back to the key questions:

How are people going to get to Richmond, and why would they want to?

Maybe it would draw a few fans from Vancouver who can actually see past the suburban snobbery that is presently keeping them from attending Swangard in Burnaby.

Maybe you also draw a tiny smattering fans from Richmond proper... because let's face it, the demographics in Richmond aren't exactly known for rabid football support.

Which leaves the rest of Metro Vancouver....

NOBODY wants to drive to Richmond. Highway after highway, and then the city traffic is notoriously shite.

As for transit, suburbanites outside Vancouver would have to go all the way downtown on the Expo or Milennium Lines in order to transfer to the Canada line heading south to Richmond. That could be as much as 80 mins each way on the Skytrain, and that doesn't include the time it took you to travel to your first station of departure.

Bridgeport dining options? Sorta. Pubs / nightlife? nope.

Casino? You know kids aren't allowed in there, right?

Richmond is a poor, poor choice. Better off to stick with BC Place, where the allure of downtown shenanigans will draw plenty of casual local yokels from the burbs.

[piltdownman]

I agree, Richmond would be a bad choice. I'm not the biggest plan of the BC place plan but its better than the Suburbs.

[PG Tips]

I'm not saying build the thing in Richmond. I said, "IF, they CAN'T build Downtown, then a spot in the Richmond Bridgeport Area Plan COULD be interesting." I WANT the Caps to stay Downtown.

I'm throwing out hypothetical options to therefore create discussion on the subject hence the reason for this forum in the first place.

Bridgeport is only 20 minutes downtown by Canada Line. It's right across the river from Vancouver obviously. The population within 20 minutes of a Bridgeport stadium is in the hundreds of thousands. Richmond's "tiny smattering fans" are not the only fans that could attend. It's hypothetical to even predict what local people would turn out for "soccer" matches in Vancouver or in Richmond. A professional North American top-tiered franchise in downtown Vancouver has been untested since 1984. The demographics for the entire Metro has completely changed.

The area will become, as I mentioned already, a transportation hub and park and ride. It's easily reachable by one of the regions largest highways. It's not like Metro Vancouverites only take public transport, they mostly still use the car. Even though public tranport is something I advocate, the car will still be factored in with stadium location.

Either way if you look at it, IF it was not built in Vancouver but Surrey or in Richmond, they are both going to be away from the main population base. The difference is, Richmond is much closer.

We will not get an MLS franchise if the Caps decide to permanently stay at BC Place. They might have a difficult time just temporarily playing there now. Surely the goal is to get a franchise. Playing in a new stadium 15 or 20 mins by car/train from Vancouver's core population is better than nothing at all.


Bridgeport dining options? Sorta. Pubs / nightlife? nope.It will become, as I already mentioned, a regional town centre with a high street. Retail, commercial businesses, condos, etc. The Richmond Bridgeport Area Plan is easily found on the internet. You obviously haven't seen them. The designs for the area are very big and very cool. Lot's of retail, lots of restaurants.

[morbital]

richmonds going to be under water in a few years, didnt you get that memo?