Are Posters in this Forum "Chronic Complainers"

[Ghosting]

I just read this article (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=keown/081007)on college football fans that are never satisfied. It reminded me very much of the discussions in the USMNT N/A forum.


...
No play is good enough. No win is big enough. No pass is perfect enough. No play call is brilliant enough.
...
... as everyone was loading up to leave after the game, one of them turned to the group and hollered, "If we play that way against USC, we'll lose 50-0."


A lot of fans claim that they just "demand the best" from their team, but it seems to me that we've fallen into the trap of believing that there is this magical "will to win", coaching decision, or player combination that, if we just decided to apply it, we would be the best team in CONCACAF, and a top five team in the world.

In some ways it's great that we've reached a point where we are good enough to expect our team to perform well. However, I think it would be useful to have have a discussion about what reasonable benchmarks for the performance of the USMNT are. In other words, over the remainder of this WC cycle, what would be a success for this team, and what would constitute failure?

[Peretz48]

I just read this article (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=keown/081007)on college football fans that are never satisfied. It reminded me very much of the discussions in the USMNT N/A forum.



A lot of fans claim that they just "demand the best" from their team, but it seems to me that we've fallen into the trap of believing that there is this magical "will to win", coaching decision, or player combination that, if we just decided to apply it, we would be the best team in CONCACAF, and a top five team in the world.

In some ways it's great that we've reached a point where we are good enough to expect our team to perform well. However, I think it would be useful to have have a discussion about what reasonable benchmarks for the performance of the USMNT are. In other words, over the remainder of this WC cycle, what would be a success for this team, and what would constitute failure?
Success for this team:

1. Adding all the BS faves to the roster, and getting rid of all the oldtimers. #1 fave Kenny Cooper should also be promoted to captain after his next game with the USMNT. Brian Ching should be sent away from the USMNT, permanently. Michael Bradley should also be banned from the team due to the obvious nepotism in selecting him. Robbie Rogers must also be included in the team immediately, along with Cooper. Failure to do so should result in the immediate firing of Bob Bradley and Peter Nowak.

2. Winning every remaining game in WCQ. A 1-0 win at Mexico would be acceptable. Against anyone else, home or away, a minimum score of 2-0.

3. Winning with style and creativity. A panel of BS experts will meet after each WCQ to decide if the team has performed up to the panel's standards. Failure to do so after any game should result in firings (see #1).

4. Identification of at least three heretofore completely unknown players who will make the final roster in South Africa.

5. At the World Cup group stage, three wins. Anything less, unacceptable.

6. Minimum advancement to the semifinals, preferably winning the whole thing.

Failure:

Not meeting the criteria above.

-------------- Chronic Complainer #327

[zanderbz]

There are some chronic complainers on the forum for sure. I am a member of a NCAA football site for my alma mater and it is much of the same.

I originally joined both sites because they provide some good information not available through traditional media. But these types of forums have taken on a whole new meaning. They are now full of armchair quarterbacks (ten shirts) and a bunch of wanna be analysts.

If you sift through the junk you will occasionally come across some people who have something genuine and meaningful to contribute. I learn little by little to stay away from these sites after a win or a loss as it is always much of the same. Some know it all bashing coach x or player y for what they did or didn't do regardless of the result. One thing I do know is that I can't stay away forever even though I wish I could.

As for reasonable expectations for the USMNT the rest of the way:

1. Get out of this round with 18 points, there is no reason for us to lose or draw any of the remaining games. We are clearly better than the opposition.

2. For the Hex, I think we should come away with 20 points at a minimum. That would represent 5 wins at home and 5 draws on the road. We could do better but if we clinch early like in 2005 in could prompt BB to give the youngins' a hostile road game much as BA did.

3. Confed Cup, get out of the group and perhaps place 3rd. But I would like to see the groups first.

4. WC, win it all.:D Okay, it depends on the groups. No reason we can't do well. Past performances are irrelevant.

[An Unpaved Road]

A quarterfinals appearance in the World Cup will be a success to me. I think the U.S. should be proving that 02 wasn't a fluke before they can realistically be thinking of a true contender's run. If they can pull that off and improve upon the already near-dominance of CONCACAF, then I can see the 2014 WC team being for real what ESPN and Nike were hyping in 06.

[MLSNHTOWN]

If someone talks about chronic complaining regarding this forum isn't that in essence complaining?

IMHO success = Quarters or better
or we get put in a total group of death and play great but narrowly missed (say if we get a Brazil, France, Japan group e.g.


Regardless, I honestly think that there will always be complaints and there will always be people who think everyone else is Batshit insane. It's a message board.

I don't think US fans complain anymore than most fans.

[Karl K]

Yes, this board is rife with chronic complainers.

Now, chronic complaining in and of itself is not necessarily bad. It depends on the source of the complaint.

If the source of the complaint is REAL pain -- say an England fan contemplating suicide while screaming at the top of his lungs during the McClaren era, given the pool's amazing talent and the horrific results -- well, that's acceptable.

If the source of the complaint is a phantasmagorical delusional fantasy -- say, a USA fan who thinks we could and should play like Spain if only we fired Bob Bradley, had a Euro coach (Guus Hiddink would be nice) and gave Kenny Cooper "a shot" among other deck chair arranging moves -- well, that sort of complaint is beyond annoying.

In other words, it's about setting realistic expectations and managing those expectations, including coming to grips with the fact that we play REAL opponents, and not assume that if we just added this player, or subtracted that player, as though our opponents were holographs, all would be right with the world.

[Mr Martin]

I think it would be useful to have have a discussion about what reasonable benchmarks for the performance of the USMNT are. In other words, over the remainder of this WC cycle, what would be a success for this team, and what would constitute failure?

The US team is ranked outside the top 16 in all international ratings systems. We have no players starting on Champions League teams. We have one near-world class player (Tim Howard). Our most gifted field players are U23's and U20's still trying to win regular playing time with their club teams.

* So, success would be: Advancing to the Round of 16 at the 2010 World Cup from an average or below-average difficulty group. That would place us at a level above which we are logically rated.

* Adequacy would be: Getting one or two results in a Group of Death, even if the team does not advance.

* Failure would be: Getting no results in an average or below-average difficulty group at the World Cup.

* Disaster would be: Failing to qualify for the World Cup.

[deuteronomy]

Success for this team:

1. Adding all the BS faves to the roster, and getting rid of all the oldtimers. #1 fave Kenny Cooper should also be promoted to captain after his next game with the USMNT. Brian Ching should be sent away from the USMNT, permanently. Michael Bradley should also be banned from the team due to the obvious nepotism in selecting him. Robbie Rogers must also be included in the team immediately, along with Cooper. Failure to do so should result in the immediate firing of Bob Bradley and Peter Nowak.
2. Winning every remaining game in WCQ. A 1-0 win at Mexico would be acceptable. Against anyone else, home or away, a minimum score of 2-0.
3. Winning with style and creativity. A panel of BS experts will meet after each WCQ to decide if the team has performed up to the panel's standards. Failure to do so after any game should result in firings (see #1).
4. Identification of at least three heretofore completely unknown players who will make the final roster in South Africa.
5. At the World Cup group stage, three wins. Anything less, unacceptable.
6. Minimum advancement to the semifinals, preferably winning the whole thing.
Failure:Not meeting the criteria above.-------------- Chronic Complainer #327
Repped,lol
Also, if any of the above criteria are not exacted or if we get to a point where the criteria need to be raised, BB should be placed in stocks for a period for no less than 3 days in the middle of Times Sqaure. At the end of this period he will be taken immediately to a room beneath the Empire State Building. At that point, 3 specially selected BS members drawn from a lottery will use blow torches and tire irons to "get medieval on him". Michael Bradley will be excluded from all consideration of USMNT and it will be agreed by all that their names would never be mentioned again by anyone in the soccer community.
For a period not to exceed 5 years any poster suggesting that an American coach may offer some advantages will be negative repped ad nauseum.
The USSF hires a string of 25 coaches during this period each of which bring credentials which thrill BS posters. The salaries are between $2 and $5 million each. Player development suffers severely as each of these individuals cares nothing other than achieving results immediately. Mexico surpasses us in producing quality new players and results. Gus Hiddink and Fabio Cappello have to return to Holland and Italy respectively to serve time as a result of their latest tax violations. (BS posters rage at the unfairness) Sven actually marries Charlize Theron and retires to Malmo to watch the sun set. Angelina Jolie claims he is the father of her child.
MB (remember his name is not to be mentioned) leads Borussia Muenchengladbach to 14 consecutive Bundesliege titles and Switzerland (he is hardship naturalized to WC titles in '14, '18 and '22.) Bob, now confined to a wheelchair watches faithfully. The Swiss coach actually gives BB credit for the many innovations the team constantly presents.
BS complaining actually increases due to the many posters unhappiness with these developments. E-66 moves back to England with Angelina to watch Kenny Cooper play at Old Trafford. KC becomes a star and an England Nat. In a boring '18 final England falls to Switerland at Wembley. The game winner appears to be off side on MB but the Russian AR fails to raise his flag. E-66 forgives BB who finally reveals he was ready to give KC a look when all this started. Prime Time and SFS become the two most highly recognized Soccer pundits in the USA often exchanging ideas. Kevin8333 becomes the first American coach since BB (remember no mentioning) and many BS oldtimers are amazed that some of his crazy thoughts and wacky lineups seem to work.

[Kevin8833]

Repped,lol
Also, if any of the above criteria are not exacted or if we get to a point where the criteria need to be raised, BB should be placed in stocks for a period for no less than 3 days in the middle of Times Sqaure. At the end of this period he will be taken immediately to a room beneath the Empire State Building. At that point, 3 specially selected BS members drawn from a lottery will use blow torches and tire irons to "get medieval on him". Michael Bradley will be excluded from all consideration of USMNT and it will be agreed by all that their names would never be mentioned again by anyone in the soccer community.
For a period not to exceed 5 years any poster suggesting that an American coach may offer some advantages will be negative repped ad nauseum.
The USSF hires a string of 25 coaches during this period each of which bring credentials which thrill BS posters. The salaries are between $2 and $5 million each. Player development suffers severely as each of these individuals cares nothing other than achieving results immediately. Mexico surpasses us in producing quality new players and results. Gus Hiddink and Fabio Cappello have to return to Holland and Italy respectively to serve time as a result of their latest tax violations. (BS posters rage at the unfairness) Sven actually marries Charlize Theron and retires to Malmo to watch the sun set. Angelina Jolie claims he is the father of her child.
MB (remember his name is not to be mentioned) leads Borussia Muenchengladbach to 14 consecutive Bundesliege titles and Switzerland (he is hardship naturalized to WC titles in '14, '18 and '22.) Bob, now confined to a wheelchair watches faithfully. The Swiss coach actually gives BB credit for the many innovations the team constantly presents.
BS complaining actually increases due to the many posters unhappiness with these developments. E-66 moves back to England with Angelina to watch Kenny Cooper play at Old Trafford. KC becomes a star and an England Nat. In a boring '18 final England falls to Switerland at Wembley. The game winner appears to be off side on MB but the Russian AR fails to raise his flag. E-66 forgives BB who finally reveals he was ready to give KC a look when all this started. Prime Time and SFS become the two most highly recognized Soccer pundits in the USA often exchanging ideas. Kevin8333 becomes the first American coach since BB (remember no mentioning) and many BS oldtimers are amazed that some of his crazy thoughts and wacky lineups seem to work.
:DThanks for the recognition! haha

[Peretz48]

Repped,lol
Also, if any of the above criteria are not exacted or if we get to a point where the criteria need to be raised, BB should be placed in stocks for a period for no less than 3 days in the middle of Times Sqaure. At the end of this period he will be taken immediately to a room beneath the Empire State Building. At that point, 3 specially selected BS members drawn from a lottery will use blow torches and tire irons to "get medieval on him". Michael Bradley will be excluded from all consideration of USMNT and it will be agreed by all that their names would never be mentioned again by anyone in the soccer community.
For a period not to exceed 5 years any poster suggesting that an American coach may offer some advantages will be negative repped ad nauseum.
The USSF hires a string of 25 coaches during this period each of which bring credentials which thrill BS posters. The salaries are between $2 and $5 million each. Player development suffers severely as each of these individuals cares nothing other than achieving results immediately. Mexico surpasses us in producing quality new players and results. Gus Hiddink and Fabio Cappello have to return to Holland and Italy respectively to serve time as a result of their latest tax violations. (BS posters rage at the unfairness) Sven actually marries Charlize Theron and retires to Malmo to watch the sun set. Angelina Jolie claims he is the father of her child.
MB (remember his name is not to be mentioned) leads Borussia Muenchengladbach to 14 consecutive Bundesliege titles and Switzerland (he is hardship naturalized to WC titles in '14, '18 and '22.) Bob, now confined to a wheelchair watches faithfully. The Swiss coach actually gives BB credit for the many innovations the team constantly presents.
BS complaining actually increases due to the many posters unhappiness with these developments. E-66 moves back to England with Angelina to watch Kenny Cooper play at Old Trafford. KC becomes a star and an England Nat. In a boring '18 final England falls to Switerland at Wembley. The game winner appears to be off side on MB but the Russian AR fails to raise his flag. E-66 forgives BB who finally reveals he was ready to give KC a look when all this started. Prime Time and SFS become the two most highly recognized Soccer pundits in the USA often exchanging ideas. Kevin8333 becomes the first American coach since BB (remember no mentioning) and many BS oldtimers are amazed that some of his crazy thoughts and wacky lineups seem to work.
You definitely brought your 'A' game. But no love for Zoidberg? Sven would quit coaching immediately if he could get within ten feet of Charlize Theron.

[sidefootsitter]

The US team is ranked outside the top 16 in all international ratings systems... Elo has the US at 15.

As to the thread starter - the "complainers" are offset by the "Polyannas", so it's a perfect balance.

[FirstStar]

YES!!! Quit your bitching.

[Ghosting]

...
In some ways it's great that we've reached a point where we are good enough to expect our team to perform well. However, I think it would be useful to have have a discussion about what reasonable benchmarks for the performance of the USMNT are. In other words, over the remainder of this WC cycle, what would be a success for this team, and what would constitute failure?
If someone talks about chronic complaining regarding this forum isn't that in essence complaining?
...
YES!!! Quit your bitching.
I anticipated this argument, and thus cloked my "alleged complaint" in an "observation" followed by a "possible silver lining" and a "request for further analysis". :D

[Neuwerld]

Some.

The louder annoying ones.

[Ghosting]

I think the US is a team right now that is probably between the 15-30 in the world. That means that we are good enough to compete with any team on any given day, but will lose to top twenty teams more than we will win.

I think the player pool for the US is much weaker that many other nations that we compete against (and are higher rated than). Our strength is our organization, discipline, and team unity. Howeverm I don't think we have the talent right now to get much beyond where we are. Our coaching is adequate, but, not great. At best, I think bringing in a coaching genius will increase our chances of winning very minimally.

I'm a results-oriented guy. Winning ugly is still winning. Success for me is qualifying for the WC and getting out of the group stages. Period. Granted, my degree of satisfaction with the team will be greater if we go 1-1-1 in a group of death, but don't come out of the group than if we did the same in an "easy" group (like Mexico had in '06).

The bottom line is that I'm not too concerned about the teams play up until now because the results have been good.

[CommonSense]

Some.

The louder annoying ones.

Elo has the US at 15.

As to the thread starter - the "complainers" are offset by the "People that don't think Football Manager is like real life", so it's a perfect balance.

FYP

Example A right here. Cherry pick more "facts" to back up your crap.

You can't give a reasonable justification behind firing Bob Bradley, point blank. Man has earned results, just because you don't like the style doesn't mean you're right.

Go back to "journalism", you're a joke poster at this point. Everyone knows exactly what's coming from a SFS post.

[diablodelsol]

Fire BigSoccer!

[irust]

To answer your question: yes, and I'm one of them. Its natural for everyone here to be complainers, we are the die-hard fans of the sport who expect perfection and every desire to be fulfilled, there for it should not be suprising that most people on BS set ridiculous expectations; myself included. Theres no way Bob Bradley could ever appease all of us, and we are prefectly content criticizing him- its a never ending cycle (unless of course we win the world cup).

[sitruc]

If I respond, am I complaining about your complaining?:rolleyes:

Regardless,

we're fans,
we're mostly anonymous here, and
this is the internets.

What are we supposed to do here? Discussion often will lead to complaining.

[hasselhoff]

Theres no way Bob Bradley could ever appease all of us, and we are prefectly content criticizing him- its a never ending cycle (unless of course we win the world cup).
Now come on. You're forgetting the style committee, which must verify that said world cup win was done with flair. Ugly world cups are grounds for immediate termination.