PK's drawn

[ChrisE]

Although MLS does not, unfortunately, give us this stat, I think, with a little work, a list can be compiled. Most of it can be done pretty easily because almost every goal scored is archived by mlsnet; unfortunately, missed penalties remain a problem, because they're not at all easy to search for, so I'm going to need a little help compiling a list.

I've begun by compiling who drew the pk's of the three teams that didn't miss any kicks, but that's a pretty small percentage. Here they are, in the form [date, scored by, drawn by]:

Columbus
5/10 - Cunningham - Cunningham
5/17 - McBride - (Mcbride or Paule)
10/19 - Mcbride - West

D.C. United
5/17 - Etcheverry - Stewart
6/7 - Etcheverry - hand ball, Orlando Perez
7/5 - Etcheverry - Curtis
7/27 - Quintanilla - Etcheverry
8/16 - Stoitchkov - Stoitchkov
9/28 - Etcheverry - Convey
10/4 - Etcheverry - Etcheverry
10/19 - Stoitchkov - Stoitchkov

San Jose
4/26 - Donovan - Ching
7/26 - Agoos - Walker

I'll eventually finish the list, but if anyone can remember any missed PK's, it would make the job a lot easier. Here's the list of the other 7 teams' PK's made/PK's converted:

Chicago 7/9
Metrostars 4/7
New England 2/3
Colorado 5/6
Dallas 4/6
Kansas City 5/6
Los Angeles 7/8

and I've already got these three:
10/11 Mandi Urbas
10/11 John Wolyniec
10/11 hand ball, Brian Dunseth

[beineke]

I'm pretty sure MLS does publish a list of all PK's each season. It doesn't list the cause of the PK, but it lists the missed ones, too.

[kenntomasch]

Yep. Here they are:


PENALTY KICK SUMMARY
DATE TM OPP SHOOTER KEEPER RES MN
04/13/2003 CHI 1 vs NE 1 Rodrigo Faria Adin Brown S 44
04/19/2003 MET 1 vs LA 1 Jaime Moreno Kevin Hartman G 42
04/26/2003 COL 1 vs DC 1 John Spencer Nick Rimando G 24
04/26/2003 SJ 1 vs LA 0 Landon Donovan Kevin Hartman G 54
05/03/2003 KC 2 vs CLB 2 Preki Jon Busch G 47+
05/10/2003 CLB 2 vs COL 0 Jeff Cunningham Scott Vallow G 25
05/17/2003 DC 1 vs KC 1 Marco Etcheverry Tony Meola G 31
05/17/2003 CLB 3 at SJ 4 Brian McBride Pat Onstad G 38
05/24/2003 DAL 1 at MET 2 Jason Kreis Tim Howard S 63
05/25/2003 CHI 4 vs COL 0 Ante Razov Scott Garlick G 8
05/25/2003 CHI 4 vs COL 0 Ante Razov Scott Garlick G 75
05/31/2003 MET 1 at CLB 1 Clint Mathis Jon Busch G 64
05/31/2003 DAL 3 vs DC 2 Ronald Cerritos Nick Rimando G 75
06/07/2003 DC 2 vs CHI 0 Marco Etcheverry Zach Thornton G 37
06/07/2003 LA 2 vs COL 0 Carlos Ruiz Scott Garlick G 91+
06/14/2003 MET 2 vs CHI 3 Amado Guevara Zach Thornton G 94+
06/14/2003 LA 2 vs KC 1 Carlos Ruiz Tony Meola G 73
06/14/2003 KC 1 at LA 2 Preki Kevin Hartman S 97+
06/18/2003 CHI 4 vs DAL 1 Ante Razov D.J. Countess G 21
06/21/2003 KC 4 vs CHI 2 Preki Zach Thornton G 70
06/21/2003 COL 1 at DAL 3 John Spencer D.J. Countess G 25
06/28/2003 LA 3 vs DAL 0 Carlos Ruiz D.J. Countess G 63
07/02/2003 DAL 1 vs DC 3 Jason Kreis Nick Rimando G 74
07/04/2003 COL 3 vs KC 2 John Spencer Tony Meola G 44
07/04/2003 LA 2 vs NE 2 Carlos Ruiz Adin Brown G 28
07/05/2003 DC 2 vs MET 3 Marco Etcheverry Tim Howard G 10
07/19/2003 CHI 3 vs NE 1 Damani Ralph Matt Reis G 51
07/26/2003 SJ 3 vs DAL 0 Jeff Agoos D.J. Countess G 90
07/27/2003 DC 4 at NE 2 Eliseo Quintanilla Matt Reis G 91+
08/09/2003 LA 3 vs CLB 1 Carlos Ruiz Jon Busch G 68
08/13/2003 CHI 2 at CLB 2 Ante Razov Jon Busch G 34
08/16/2003 DC 1 at CHI 3 Hristo Stoitchkov Zach Thornton G 8
08/16/2003 CHI 3 vs DC 1 Ante Razov Nick Rimando S 40
08/16/2003 KC 2 at DAL 3 Preki D.J. Countess G 26
08/16/2003 DAL 3 vs KC 2 Brad Davis Tony Meola G 54
08/16/2003 COL 2 vs CLB 1 John Spencer Jon Busch G 57
08/22/2003 KC 2 vs COL 2 Preki Scott Vallow G 93+
08/23/2003 NE 1 at LA 2 Jose Cancela Kevin Hartman G 86
08/30/2003 LA 2 vs DAL 1 Carlos Ruiz D.J. Countess G 50
08/30/2003 LA 2 vs DAL 1 Carlos Ruiz D.J. Countess S 81
09/06/2003 KC 1 vs MET 2 Preki Jonny Walker G 79
09/06/2003 DAL 1 at COL 2 Brad Davis Scott Garlick G 24
09/06/2003 COL 2 vs DAL 1 John Spencer D.J. Countess S 37
09/18/2003 NE 0 vs COL 0 Taylor Twellman Scott Garlick S 68
09/25/2003 MET 0 vs DC 2 Clint Mathis Nick Rimando S 36
09/28/2003 DC 1 vs MET 1 Marco Etcheverry Jonny Walker G 64
10/04/2003 DC 1 at CLB 1 Marco Etcheverry Jon Busch G 59
10/04/2003 COL 2 at KC 4 Chris Henderson Tony Meola G 60
10/11/2003 MET 0 vs DAL 0 Amado Guevara D.J. Countess S 2
10/11/2003 MET 0 vs DAL 0 Clint Mathis D.J. Countess S 86
10/11/2003 DAL 0 at MET 0 Edward Johnson Jonny Walker S 88
10/11/2003 LA 1 at KC 2 Carlos Ruiz Tony Meola G 67
10/11/2003 NE 1 vs DC 0 Steve Ralston Doug Warren G 92
10/18/2003 CHI 4 vs COL 3 Ante Razov Scott Garlick G 11
10/19/2003 DC 2 vs CLB 3 Hristo Stoitchkov Jon Busch G 37
10/19/2003 CLB 3 at DC 2 Brian McBride Doug Warren G 90
10/25/2003 MET 2 at NE 5 Mark Lisi Adin Brown G 58
10/26/2003 CHI 2 at CLB 6 Jesse Marsch Jon Busch G 25


Given that they list the minute as well, if you go back through gametracker, you may be able to more easily see who drew the PK.

While you're at it, note the referee as well. MLS has, in its postseason media guide, a statistical summary of this year's refs, which lists their aggregate totals, but you might want to have who gave which teams PK's and in what situations, and for what (tackle in the box, handball, whatever).

[ChrisE]

Originally posted by kenntomasch


While you're at it, note the referee as well. MLS has, in its postseason media guide, a statistical summary of this year's refs, which lists their aggregate totals, but you might want to have who gave which teams PK's and in what situations, and for what (tackle in the box, handball, whatever).

Beineke, Kenn, thanks for the help. Unfortunately, kenn, I've already finished the list, and I didn't see your post till now, so I don't have the referee stats. I'll do it eventually though, if you want.

Here's how the numbers came out; I didn't give anybody credit for 'drawing' a handball, I only gave a player credit when he was fouled in the box.

Pk's drawn
Ruiz, Carlos 3
Beasley, Damarcus 2
Etcheverry, Marco 2
Guevara, Amado 2
Jones, Cobi 2
Stoitchkov, Hristo 2
Bagley, Chris 1
Bolanos, Jonathan 1
Ching, Brian 1
Chung, Mark 1
Clark, Ricardo 1
Convey, Bobby 1
Cunningham, Jeff 1
Curtin, Jim 1
Curtis, Ali 1
Davis, Brad 1
Digiamarino, Joey 1
Gray, Kelly 1
Jaqua, Nate 1
Johnson, Eddie 1
Kamler, Brian 1
Kingsley, Zach 1
Kreis, Jason 1
Mcbride, Brian 1
Moreno, Alejandro 1
Pineda Chacon, Alex 1
Preki 1
Quill, Eric 1
Ralph, Damani 1
Regan, Tim 1
Roberts, Zizi 1
Serna, Diego 1
Simutenkov, Igor 1
Spencer, John 1
Stewart, Earnie 1
Twellman, Taylor 1
Urbas, Mandi 1
Vaca, Joselito 1
Walker, Jamil 1
West, Brian 1
Wolff, Josh 1
Wolyniec, John 1
Zavagnin, Kerry 1

And then there were eight handballs.

I also made out a list of players who were responsible for PK's, whose value, in my opinion, is a lot more questionable than the first; nevertheless, I thought it was interesting; I attributed the penalty to either the guy who committed the foul in the box, or the guy who handballed:

Pk's conceded
borchers 3.5
zotinca 2
williams, mark 2
whitfield 2
suarez 2
rimando 2
prideaux 2
kante 2
hendrickson 2
gutierrez 2
gbandi 2
dunseth 2
clark, mike 2
hart 1.5
davis 1
mccarty 1
fraser 1
waibel 1
perez 1
bartolomeu 1
brown, c.j. 1
leitch 1
hejduk 1
stewart, earnie 1
garcia, nick 1
maisonneuve 1
thomas, shavar 1
beckerman 1
williams, richie 1
mastroeni 1
gomez, francisco 1
franchino 1
busch 1
pierce 1
califf 1
heaps 1
clark, ricardo 1
lalas 1
nelsen 1
kovalenko 1
behncke 1
addo 1

Mark Williams, I'm pretty sure, was by far the leader in PK's conceded per 90.

If anyone (all four of you) wants to see the entire list of PK's, or anything else, I'd be happy to provide it.

[beineke]

Great stuff, Chris ...

Based on an informal tally, I came up with

PK's drawn
FORWARDS 24
MIDFIELDERS 24
DEFENDERS 2

IIRC, I counted Stewart as a forward, Preki, Digi, and Gray as midfielders.

To me, it stands out that Latin American players tend to draw more PK's than others ... in general, older players, smaller players, good goalscorers, and players with good dribbling skills seem to have an advantage.

Players among the top 20 scorers who didn't draw a PK:
Landon Donovan
Ante Razov
Pat Noonan
Edson Buddle
Mike Magee

[kenntomasch]

Referees who doled out PK's (games in the middle in parentheses):


Brian Hall...........6 (16)
Michael Kennedy......6 (11)
Abidoun Okulaja......6 (11)
Alex Prus............6 (17)
Terry Vaughn.........5 (15)
Noel Kenny...........4 (10)
Jair Marrufo.........4 (7)
Kevin Stott..........4 (11)
Marcel Yonan.........4 (5)
Ali Saheli...........3 (8)
Ricardo Salazar......3 (6)
Kevin Terry..........3 (10)
Jesse Johnson........1 (3)
Erich Simmons........1 (1)
Gus St.Silva.........1 (7)
Ricardo Valenzuela...1 (7)
Richard Heron........0 (3)
Hector Tobon.........0 (2)

[Karl K]

Great job.

I am absolutely convinced, that if DaMarcus Beasley is healthy enough to play somewhere between 12 to 15 CONCACAF qualifiers over the upcoming cycle, then the odds of him drawing at least ONE PK are about as close to 100% as you can get.

I think the odds of him drawing 2 PKs over that same number of games is probably around 35% to 40%.

Also, I would not be surprised if the one or both of the PKs he inevitably creates wind up being a critically decisive factor in getting us very important points.

[voros]

DaMarcus actually drew a third penalty, but he wound up knocking the ball into the net before the whistle blew.

[goal123]

Ruiz, Spencer, Guevara, and Mathis!

[beineke]

That's mighty impressive about Countess.

I wanted to see how well Fouls Suffered predicts PK's Drawn, so I did a little bit of fooling with the numbers

US forwards needed on average 67.2 fouls to draw a PK; other forwards needed 38.2.

US midfielders needed 114.4 fouls to draw a PK; other midfielders needed 75.3.

This isn't quite the end of the story, since the sample is small, and all 7 PK's earned by other positions (M/F, D/M, and defender) were earned by US players. That's not too surprising, though, because the great majority of players in those positions are from the US.

I view this data as a preliminary indication that the players who draw a lot of fouls are not necessarily the ones who draw fouls where it counts. As lurking pointed out in another thread, we really need a statistic on fouls suffered in the attacking third.

The data...
US-born and raised players listed as forwards drew
672 fouls
10 PK's

Other players listed as forwards drew
497 fouls
13 PK's

I did the same thing for midfielders
US-born and raised
fouls 1144
10 PK's

Other
fouls 753
10 PK's

[beineke]

Another thing I noticed is that a surprising number of players drew PK's without drawing many total fouls ... to wit:
Mandi Urbas 1 foul
Chris Bagley 1 foul
Jonathan Bolanos 5 fouls
Tim Regan 6 fouls
Alex Pineda Chacon 8 fouls

Then there's Hristo Stoitchkov who drew 2 PK's with only 27 total fouls ...

[ChrisE]

Anyone who's interested, 2002 and 2001 were much easier. MLS's old PK lists were much more comprehensive, and listed who drew the foul. So, 2002:


handball 6
Diallo, Mamadou 4
Simutenkov, Igor 4
De Rosario, Dwayne 2
Faria, Rodrigo 2
Henderson, Chris 2
Moreno, Jaime 2
Ruiz, Carlos 2
Armstrong, Stephen 1
Chronopoulos, Ted 1
Chung, Mark 1
Curtis, Ali 1
Donovan, Landon 1
Glinton, Gavin 1
Gray, Kelly 1
Gutierrez, Diego 1
Jones, Cobi 1
Kreis, Jason 1
Lewis, Darin 1
Maisonneuve, Brian 1
Marsch, Jesse 1
Marshall, Tyrone 1
Martino, Kyle 1
McKinley, Ivan 1
Olivares, Percy 1
Oughton, Duncan 1
Ralston, Steve 1
Trembly, Seth 1
Twellman, Taylor 1
Williams, Andy 1
Wolff, Josh 1


2001:

handball 14
Diallo, Mamadou 4
Jones, Cobi 3
Beasley, DaMarcus 2
Chronopoulos, Ted 2
Torres, Johnny 2
Alvarez, Leonel 1
Brown, Chris 1
Cate 1
Chung, Mark 1
Cienfuegos, Mauricio 1
Cloutier, Braeden 1
Convey, Bobby 1
Cunningham, Jeff 1
Donovan, Landon 1
Elliott, Simon 1
Gomez, Francisco 1
Hendrickson, Ezra 1
Mathis, Clint 1
Okoh, Matt 1
Pareja, Oscar 1
Pineda Chacon, Alex 1
Spencer, John 1
Stoitchkov, Hristo 1
Sunsing, William 1
Vaca, Joselito 1
Victorine, Sasha 1
Whitfield, Evan 1


The stuff beineke did was great, by the way.

[numerista]

Has anyone been tracking PK's this year? Unless my memory has gone haywire, Ralston has already drawn three ... haven't seen the third, but the first two both looked like dives to me ... seems to back up the tendency of crafty, lightweight players to draw more spotkicks.

[kenntomasch]

I was sorta watching, and I thought Adrian Healy said that after Ralston drew that one yesterday. Sounds familiar.

[Elninho]

I've been doing some PK tracking, not individual players but the positions that are committing fouls and drawing fouls.

I don't have data for 2003, but here's what I have for 2001, 2002, and 2004 to date:

PK fouls committed:
Center back / sweeper - 46
Outside back - 21
Defensive midfield - 13
Central/attacking midfield - 12
Goalkeeper - 11
Outside midfield - 7
Forward - 1

PK fouls suffered:
Forward - 41
Outside midfield - 19
Central/attacking midfield - 14
Outside back - 7
Defensive midfield - 4
Center back / sweeper - 3
Handball - 22

Obviously teams play with different numbers of players in these position categories, but it's still an interesting set of statistics.

[ChrisE]

I've been doing some PK tracking, not individual players but the positions that are committing fouls and drawing fouls.

I don't have data for 2003, but here's what I have for 2001, 2002, and 2004 to date:


Did you not notice the list I posted above? Maybe you just don't trust it, I don't know. I think, however, that this highlights the need for us to set up some system to share these kinds of statistics.

[ChrisE]

Has anyone been tracking PK's this year? Unless my memory has gone haywire, Ralston has already drawn three ... haven't seen the third, but the first two both looked like dives to me ... seems to back up the tendency of crafty, lightweight players to draw more spotkicks.

I hadn't been, but it's really not a difficult thing to do. So, I did it and yes, Ralston's got 3 - which is pretty strange, considering that he hadn't drawn any in the last three years, so I'm not sure I'd lump him in with other serial PK-drawers.

Here's the 2004 chart:



shooter drawn caused
4/3/2004 make Ekelund, Ronnie Mullan, Brian Rimando, Nick
4/3/2004 make Rhine, Bobby handball Powell, Daryl (handball)
4/24/2004 make Ruiz, Carlos Ngwenya, Joseph Denton, Eric
5/1/2004 make Cancela, Jose Ralston, Steve Broome, Paul
5/8/2004 make Paule, Ross Hejduk, Frankie Prideaux, Brandon
5/8/2004 make Ekelund, Ronnie Mulrooney, R Clark, Ricardo
5/8/2004 make Guevara, Amado Glen, Cornell Agoos, Jeff
5/23/2004 make Cunningham, J Cunningham, J Curtin, Jim
5/29/2004 miss Twellman, T Ralston, Steve Stokes, David
5/29/2004 make Kirovski, Jovan Ngwenya, Joseph Gibbs, Cory
6/6/2004 make Cancela, Jose Ralston, Steve Hejduk, Frankie
6/6/2004 miss Cancela, Jose Joseph, Shalrie Marshall, Chad
6/6/2004 make Cunningham, J Cunningham, J John, Avery
6/9/2004 make Wolff, Josh Wolff, Josh Borchers, Nat
6/12/2004 make Razov, Ante Mapp, Justin Albright, Chris
6/12/2004 make Cunningham, J Cunningham, J Garcia, Nick

[Elninho]

Did you not notice the list I posted above? Maybe you just don't trust it, I don't know. I think, however, that this highlights the need for us to set up some system to share these kinds of statistics.

Didn't see the list. Now that I'm looking at it... how did Borchers and Hart split a foul?

[ChrisE]

Didn't see the list. Now that I'm looking at it... how did Borchers and Hart split a foul?

If I remember correctly, they sandwiched a guy.

[ChrisE]

2004's numbers:

Drawn

handball 9
Wolff, Josh 3
Ralston, Steve 3
Gaven, Eddie 3
Cunningham, Jeff 3
Ngwenya, Joseph 2
Martino, Kyle 2
Magee, Mike 2
Wolyniec, John 1
Williams, Andy 1
Twellman, Taylor 1
Rhine, Bobby 1
Razov, Ante 1
Ralph, Damani 1
Peguero, Jean Philippe 1
Oughton, Duncan 1
Mulrooney, Richard 1
Mullan, Brian 1
Moreno, Jaime 1
Mapp, Justin 1
Kirovski, Jovan 1
Joseph, Shalrie 1
Hejduk, Frankie 1
Gomez, Francisco 1
Glen, Cornell 1
Donovan, Landon 1
Delgado, Alberto 1
De Rosario, Dwayne 1
Ching, Brian 1
Arnaud, Davy 1



Conceded

Cannon, Joe 3
Curtin, Jim 2
Hejduk, Frankie 2
Parke, Jeff 2
Prideaux, Brandon 2
Thomas, Shavar 2
Agoos, Jeff 1
Albright, Chris 1
Aloisi, Chris 1
Bonseu, Tenywa 1
Borchers, Nat 1
Broome, Paul 1
Brown, C.J. 1
Busch, Jon 1
Clanton, Denny 1
Clark, Ricardo 1
Conrad, Jimmy 1
Denton, Eric 1
Franchino, Joe 1
Fraser, Robin 1
Garcia, Nick 1
Gibbs, Cory 1
Hart, Wes 1
John, Avery 1
Kotschau, Ritchie 1
Leonard, Marshall 1
Marshall, Chad 1
Marshall, Tyrone 1
Mastroeni, Pablo 1
Oughton, Duncan 1
Pause, Logan 1
Petke, Mike 1
Pope, Eddie 1
Powell, Daryl 1
Reis, Matt 1
Reyes, Milton 1
Rimando, Nick 1
Ring, Henry 1
Sanneh, Tony 1
Stokes, David 1
Torres, Arturo 1
Waibel, Craig 1