Can the L1 rise from the economic slow-down?

[Gotham PSG]

With all the problems that financial institutions face, many big clubs in Europe are now faced with large debts and, as with West Ham, investors needing a way out.
It was announced that the EPL has a combined debt of around 5 billion, and that there are fears there might be a chance of threats over its financial stability.
The UEFA is announcing it is looking into ways to control it, some of whom are saying that they might want to expand the DNCG, so on.

All in all, what I am wondering is.... can french football come out of this crisis in better shape than the rest? I know that the Bundesliga is the other league that runs tight financial restrictions, but it appears that the EPL or Liga are vulnerable.

Let's imagine that tomorrow they do expand the DNCG on an european scale. What will it mean? Will any clubs have to face sanctions?
Or will it still be more of the same, because in the end people like Abramovitch will simple bail out their clubs?

[SportBoy333]

Things just aren't fair the way they are now. You have all these European teams competeting for the same players now and playing each other in European competitions and they all play by different rules. If we dont get a European DNCG sometime soon then I dont think I'll be interesting in watching Ligue 1 teams play in Europe anymore. Its bad enough we have the high employment taxes for French teams which puts them at a disadvantage and they also have to play against teams who are millions in debt yet can still sign who ever they want. Something need to be done or else France, Germany and who ever else should boycott Euro competitions for their teams.

[lefutur]

According to the article in the Independant, the experts think the outlook for the EPL is "grim".

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/crunch-time-for-english-clubs-955165.html

I don't know what the short term ramifications will be aside from maybe reining in on the spending perhaps, but long-term it could spell a decline in the gap between the leagues.

[SportBoy333]

Stop signing high priced foreigners and invest in homegrown players. There's your answer. In the old days English teams did very well in Europe with mostly British players.

[lefutur]

It does seem to be good news for the French clubs that have been struggling in Europe. There has been much more regulation in France and because the teams cant spend themselves into dept like the top clubs in Europe do, they haven't been able to keep up. It looks the the field will be leveled pretty quickly.

[Gotham PSG]

but don't you think that, much more than simply what clubs are able to spend for both transfers and wages, the much bigger problem is the state of french football infrastructures? And not just stadiums.

It's great to see Le Mans have big plans, that Lille finally got its stadium going, that Lyon wants to push for its amazing stadium, but until they are opened for fans, clubs aren't able to capitalize on all the revenue they are capable of generating.

It is one thing for french clubs to cut costs, but it is another to increase revenue.

That is why I still don't think an european DNCG could change much: foreign clubs will still be able to earn more, and so, spend more.
no?

That's why I opened this thread, I am confused about it.
I sure would love to see a real european DNCG, to put some more parity into how clubs are run, but I don't know how much it will change things.

[lefutur]

The EPL isn't earning more. The total dept in the league is 3.5 BILLION pounds. Thats the same as the total worth of the league so basically the league is worth 0.

The immediate effect, even without UEFA stepping in is that the dept-laden clubs will not to cut back spending dramatically, or risk total collapse, very much like the financial companies in America. They won't be able to buy the Ballacks and Robinhos of the world anymore. The biggest clubs in the EPL are also the ones with the most dept. 4 teams...Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Arsenal, carry a third of the total dept, or about 1 billion pounds.

I think in the short term even, those teams will be forced to abandon the practice of spending whatever it takes to get the best players in the world.

[Gotham PSG]

well yeah but what do Chelsea or Manchester City care about debts?
And let's not forget all the money that Chelsea has paid for players, you can't say that Marseille isn't happy that they paid 30 million for Drobga, or Lyon who got a large sum as well for Essien or Malouda.

I do agree with you about teams like Liverpool, they are right now in the most trouble of the big clubs.

But when it comes to the really rich clubs, owned by gazilionaires, they have who to pay the debts.

Look at PSG: we run in the red every year, but the investors are there to bail us out. Otherwise I'm sure the DNCG would have sent us to L2 a long time ago, had it not been for Canal+ or Colony Capital.
RLD at Marseille has spent a lot of his own money as well to make sure the club stays afloat.
And let's not forget about Prince Rainier, and Albert, for Monaco.



The good thing about this economic crisis is that it might permit football to clean itself

[lefutur]

But why would gazillionaires even want to invest in these clubs if they could collapse at any moment, or be fined by UEFA for over-reaching their debts? Don't forget that these rich tycoons arent in for the sport..they're in it to make MORE money.

The financial crisis is exactly that, a crisis. It means that companies and financial entities that thought they were doing just great are now realizing that the way their were doing business was upside down, a mistake.

You think all of these banks and investment firms in the US thought they were going to go bust a year ago, or even a few months ago? They had no clue. They were doing the whole greedy deregulation, go crazy, thing.

The EPL is in the same boat. There was no oversight to how the clubs did business, no fiscal responsibility, and now its coming back to bite them in the ass.

[Padi]

I have never understood why clubs can still continue to buy players when they are in debt! A few years ago I remember Lazio owed Manchester United money over the Jaap Staam deal which they were struggling to pay. They defaulted on a few of the payments but where still buying other players and running up more debt. How is that fair on clubs that are well run?

[Padi]

And also when you talk of the debt of the English clubs. Please remeber that Manchester United was a well run club with not a single pound of debt until the Glazer family decided they wanted in on the big money in English football. They borrowed 500m, bought the club and then transfered there personal debt onto the club. Transfering it from a well run club into the most in debt club in the world in one day.
I believe that we really need more legislation controlling who can run football clubs and how they run football clubs. At the moment it isnt a level playing field between countries and the clubs of now England and Italy before that have just become either cash cows or playthings for the mega rich. None of it is in the best interests of the fans.

[lefutur]

Which is exactly what Platini has been talking about all along, leveling the playing field. It isn't enough that many clubs now are owned by corrupt tycoons but when they also keep buying up players left and right without any regulation or oversight then its a huge advantage over clubs that are regulated.

Platini even proposed that only clubs that didnt have debt should be able to compete in the CL.

[Inara]

At the very least, clubs should be open about their finances. Even if English clubs do find a way to manage their debt, it should be there for all of us to see so that we do know they are keeping their debt proportionate to their revenue.

[Padi]

That is one of the biggest problems in England though. That all the big clubs float on the stock exchange leaving them open to being bought out by foreign billionaires. Then when they have bought them, they de-list them from the stock exchange meaning that nobody knows what is being done behind the closed doors with regards to debt or the more general running of the club. This is exactly what has happened at Chelsea and Manchester United. In the long run it is the fans who lose out.

[guignol]

a big english or spanish club declaring bankruptcy would emit some serious shockwaves. but even without that happening we may see change.

everyone always knew that the EPL was a big leveraged bubble, but since the entire global economy was a massive pyramid scheme no one questioned it; the french way of doing things was just seen as quaint and outmoded. now we see that urbi et orbi there may still be a place in the world for our old horse and buggy.

[zippy85]

Don't get you hopes up.

[guignol]

actually i'm fine with things as they are. the ones who really need hope are the fans of EPL clubs outside the "big four"... and even inside.

aren't you tired of competing for seats with "supporters" who fly in from kuala lumpur to whom it doesn't matter if a concession is 100£ or 1000£?

[zippy85]

actually i'm fine with things as they are. the ones who really need hope are the fans of EPL clubs outside the "big four"... and even inside.

aren't you tired of competing for seats with "supporters" who fly in from kuala lumpur to whom it doesn't matter if a concession is 100£ or 1000£?
I don't go and watch football matches, its a rubbish experience.

Also clubs like West ham are not having problems because of the running of the club or because its losing money, its just the owner lost a large chunk of his money regarding something else nothing to do with West ham.

[guignol]

I don't go and watch football matches, its a rubbish experience.on this we will have to agree to disagree.

and consider this: have you ever watched a closed-doors match on TV? now THAT is a rubbish experience!

[SportBoy333]

Teams like PSG and Monaco dont have the money to sign the kind of players that they used to. Something is not right here. Fat and washed up Ronaldo says he'd be interested in playing for PSG but of course they dont have the money to sign him. They need to sign a player like that to make a splash and send a message. I cant believe PSG and Monaco are "poor" by their standards and yet they are. There's no excuses for that. OL and OM seem to be in much better financial shape. The rest of the teams are too but none of them spend the money anyways such as Bordeaux. An "economic slow down" still wont be enough to keep a player like Gourcuff in France.