Somali pirates steal ship full of tanks, weapons

[spejic]

A Ukrainian ship full of Russian tanks, anti-aircraft guns, anti-tank rockets and other weapons was taken by the fierce and getting fiercer Somali pirates.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article4831652.ece

American navy says "we can't stop piracy (http://africa.reuters.com/top/news/usnBAN255215.html)" even though they go in front of Congress and ask for more ships so they can guarantee the free flow of trade. But that's ok - the Russians are now sending a ship (http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080926/117144421.html) to help us. In related news, the Marines are now changing their song lyrics to "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of someplace safe..."

[96Squig]

It's not the American navy's responsibility to secure the coast of Somalia, it's basically every Navy's imo. If the Romans were able to fight Pirates succesfully, Nowadays it should be possible as well without a lot of problems. The UN should mandate it imo, and, contrary to other problems, this should be of interest not only to the US and EU, but also to China, India, and Russia.

[argentine soccer fan]

A Ukrainian ship full of Russian tanks, anti-aircraft guns, anti-tank rockets and other weapons was taken by the fierce and getting fiercer Somali pirates.


Where was the ship originally headed to? Venezuela?

[96Squig]

Where was the ship originally headed to? Venezuela?

Der Spiegel wrote Kenia, but that wouldn't be the tanks' final destination (ie they'd be brought further inside Africa).

[Scarecrow]

It's not the American navy's responsibility to secure the coast of Somalia, it's basically every Navy's imo. If the Romans were able to fight Pirates succesfully, Nowadays it should be possible as well without a lot of problems. The UN should mandate it imo, and, contrary to other problems, this should be of interest not only to the US and EU, but also to China, India, and Russia.

I have to agree, it isn't the job of the US Navy to be the waterways police. Its bad enough that the last few administrations have tried to make us into the World Police, we don't need to do more. I look forward to seeing Russia and China handle more of these types of issues.

[spejic]

America has always depended on sea trade and will continue to do so. In fact, the first six ships constructed for the US Navy were done so for the sole reason to fight pirates. To not have stopped this problem years ago when it was small means that it is much harder to stop now, and to not stop it now means that it will just get harder in the future when the actions of the pirates will more directly and more expensively hurt America. Every time the pirates succeed, it makes them materially and financially stronger and makes more Somalis think that pirating is a good occupation.

And where do you think all those weapons are going to end up?

[DoyleG]

I have to agree, it isn't the job of the US Navy to be the waterways police. Its bad enough that the last few administrations have tried to make us into the World Police, we don't need to do more. I look forward to seeing Russia and China handle more of these types of issues.

They wouldn't want to handle the issue, especially if they come out looking hypocritical. Russia is only reacting because on of its arms shipments was stolen.

[96Squig]

According to Spiegel.de, a number of war ships have surrounded the tank-transporter.

[Scarecrow]

Not that this will happen, but perhaps we should just send the ship to the bottom of the ocean to show these pirates that there actions will not be tolerated.

[dannytoone]

A really quick and cheap way to solve this:

Bait.

And a few fighter jets.

[96Squig]

Sending it to the bottom of the ocean may be unfair to the Ukrainians and other Sailors who are kept hostage.

[Scarecrow]

Sending it to the bottom of the ocean may be unfair to the Ukrainians and other Sailors who are kept hostage.

Yes I agree and honestly that would be the last thing I would do, however I wouldn't remove that option from the table. I wouldn't pay them anything, anytime, ever. Really the only options I see are either send in a Spec Ops team or sink the ship. Either way I wouldn't let a single one of the pirates live at the end of this situation and I would make it very clear that in any future act of piracy the results will be the same.

[DoyleG]

Sending it to the bottom of the ocean may be unfair to the Ukrainians and other Sailors who are kept hostage.

May not matter. One of the hostages has apparently died, although reportedly from illness.

The pirates have also dropped their demand down to $20 Million.

[96Squig]

I thought it was down to 5? Or they dropped 5 million of their demands and I read it wrong?
The Kenyan government or the Russians won't be willing to pay. But we seriously need military or coast guards to protect the ship traffic in that region better.
Far more interesting question to me is what two other nations (I read somewhere they are both EU nations) have their ships there?

[Anthony]

A Ukrainian ship full of Russian tanks, anti-aircraft guns, anti-tank rockets and other weapons was taken by the fierce and getting fiercer Somali pirates.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article4831652.ece

American navy says "we can't stop piracy (http://africa.reuters.com/top/news/usnBAN255215.html)" even though they go in front of Congress and ask for more ships so they can guarantee the free flow of trade. But that's ok - the Russians are now sending a ship (http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080926/117144421.html) to help us. In related news, the Marines are now changing their song lyrics to "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of someplace safe..."


I am jumping in here sort of late, but this is really an ignorant post. The ship is currently under the guns of a US destroyer which is waiting for that Russian ship to come (the ownership of the ship and cargo is somewhat murky, it may be Ukranian, it may be Russian). The nearest Russian navy ship in condition for the trip was something like 10 days away. The Navy has forbidden the ship to be offloaded though they are allowing food and water to be delivered.

The Navy leads a multinational force in the Horn of Africa to combat piracy. You cannot stop piracy, in the same way you cannot stop illegal immigration or terrorism, but you can take steps to reduce it. Without that force, the Horn of Africa would be impassable. But it cannot be stopped entirely, unless Somalia straigtens out, and that is going to take about 50 years.

Yes I agree and honestly that would be the last thing I would do, however I wouldn't remove that option from the table. I wouldn't pay them anything, anytime, ever. Really the only options I see are either send in a Spec Ops team or sink the ship. Either way I wouldn't let a single one of the pirates live at the end of this situation and I would make it very clear that in any future act of piracy the results will be the same.


Leave it on the table, but as the ship is not US flagged or owned, and there are no US citizens invovled, I would let the Russians or Ukranians (who ever really owns the ship) be the ones to make that decision, or even better, be the ones to actually storm the ship (with our help of course)

[Toon³]

I thought it was down to 5? Or they dropped 5 million of their demands and I read it wrong?
The Kenyan government or the Russians won't be willing to pay. But we seriously need military or coast guards to protect the ship traffic in that region better.
Far more interesting question to me is what two other nations (I read somewhere they are both EU nations) have their ships there?

According to wiki:

Countries presently contributing to CTF-150 include Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Pakistan, the United Kingdom and the United States. Other nations who have participated include Australia, Italy, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Spain, and Turkey. The command of the task force rotates among the different participating navies, with commands usually lasting between four to six months. The task force usually comprises 14 or 15 vessels

[JBigjake]

Sending it to the bottom of the ocean may be unfair to the Ukrainians and other Sailors who are kept hostage.
No one suggested that we wouldn't rescue survivors. If hostages are killed while the ship is sinking, I don't think there would be any Somali survivors.

[DoyleG]

Leave it on the table, but as the ship is not US flagged or owned, and there are no US citizens invovled, I would let the Russians or Ukranians (who ever really owns the ship) be the ones to make that decision, or even better, be the ones to actually storm the ship (with our help of course)

It's a Ukrainian ship. The former republics make a good living in military and cargo transport.

[Anthony]

It's a Ukrainian ship. The former republics make a good living in military and cargo transport.

The whole thing is kind of shadowy and wierd. I have read some news reports that say it is a Ukranian ship, others that the Ukranian company claims they do not own it. Also, is the equipment Russian or Ukranian?

In any event, I say wait until the Russian ship gets there before doing anything, and let the Russians/Ukranians decide what to do.

As for the larger question of piracy, one must remember that the US Navy has gone from about 600 ships in the mid 1980s to about 280 today. (As an aside, the immediate reason that Jim Webb quit the Reagan administration and left the GOP was because Reagan decided with the Soviets going down, a 650 ship navy was no longer needed -- Webb quit as Secretary of the Navy in protest). The ocean is a really big place. And other navy's really cannot make up the slack -- the US Navy's tonnage exceeds the tonnage of the next 17 navy's COMBINED.

[IntheNet]

A really quick and cheap way to solve this...

Solving this pirate issue is easy...

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/10/1/f_TeseoMk2Aanm_da9b605.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/3/10/1/f_TeseoMk2Aanm_da9b605.jpg&srv=img33)