Will the Premiership dominate the CL?

[evangel]

Since all threads like this end up with league comparisons, I'd like to ask a question. Why is it that people think the EPL will surely continue to dominate the Champions League? The main argument in favor of this, that EPL teams have much more money, holds little weight against the top teams of Spain and Italy. The top teams in the three leagues (plus Bayern Munich) still have similar values and revenues, according to Forbes and Deloitte. EPL dominance in this competition seems to be more due to better tactical decisions and better player acquisitions unrelated to large funds.

Looking at this from a neutral point of view, Real Madrid and Inter look to have about as good a chance to win the CL as Liverpool or Man Utd (I'm not exactly a proponent of the theory that past history in the competition matters). Those teams just need better management. Absolutely nothing has changed in the CL. Any EPL dominance that comes from increased revenue would probably come more quickly in the UEFA Cup, but that has yet to happen. It could happen, but it's still too early to tell if it will.

Regardless of whether Serie A is boring, they seem capable of the same success in European competitions that they've had in the past. And this "boring" aspect of the league only describes the mid-table teams. The likes of Juve and Inter don't have to rely on defensive tactics because they have enough quality players to go on the offensive often. The mid-table teams of any league tend to fall into predictable patterns of play because they lack the depth to constantly do anything else. This is what the EPL might change in the future if lower table teams are able to put their increased revenues to good use. How much increased they end up getting is another question that can't be answered right now.

[Prawn Sandwich]

Since all threads like this end up with league comparisons, I'd like to ask a question. Why is it that people think the EPL will surely continue to dominate the Champions League? The main argument in favor of this, that EPL teams have much more money, holds little weight against the top teams of Spain and Italy. The top teams in the three leagues (plus Bayern Munich) still have similar values and revenues, according to Forbes and Deloitte. EPL dominance in this competition seems to be more due to better tactical decisions and better player acquisitions unrelated to large funds.

Looking at this from a neutral point of view, Real Madrid and Inter look to have about as good a chance to win the CL as Liverpool or Man Utd (I'm not exactly a proponent of the theory that past history in the competition matters). Those teams just need better management. Absolutely nothing has changed in the CL. Any EPL dominance that comes from increased revenue would probably come more quickly in the UEFA Cup, but that has yet to happen. It could happen, but it's still too early to tell if it will.

Regardless of whether Serie A is boring, they seem capable of the same success in European competitions that they've had in the past. And this "boring" aspect of the league only describes the mid-table teams. The likes of Juve and Inter don't have to rely on defensive tactics because they have enough quality players to go on the offensive often. The mid-table teams of any league tend to fall into predictable patterns of play because they lack the depth to constantly do anything else. This is what the EPL might change in the future if lower table teams are able to put their increased revenues to good use. How much increased they end up getting is another question that can't be answered right now.
I've broken this post out into a separate thread so it can be treated as a topic in it's own right

[johan neeskens]

The answer is yes and they already do.

[GRBomber]

The answer is yes and they already do.

The last champions were Milan, Liverpool, Barcelona, Milan and Manchester United.
I see no domination.

[96Squig]

The depth in the EPL goes a bit deeper. Besides Bayern, Real, Barca, Milan, Inter and Juve in the long term no team can even come close to the Big 4 in the EPL, Teams like Roma, Lyon, Valencia and Bremen compete about players that would be of little interest to the big 4 anymore. The winner has not always been English recently, but if you look at the quarter finalists of the last 4 years you can clearly see English dominance taking shape.

[ZimbabweBob]

hopefully not...but probably

[O Fenômeno]

The TOP 3 clubs in England are atleast just as strong as OR BETTER than the top 3 in Spain,Italy,Germany...

And yesi'm counting Liverpool in the TOP 3 for CL purposes....

Man Utd (talent,money,prestige,manager)
Liverpool (they are effective in the CL)
Chelsea (talent,money,CL prestige)

Italy is.....Roma? Inter?

Spain Madrid, and Barca.

I can see Barca,Madrid,Inter making the semis...I know they can compete. But atleast 2 EPL clubs are going to make it into the CL for the time being. Their product is good, and they have the money,talent, mangers...not like they are undeserving or something.

[evangel]

I've broken this post out into a separate thread so it can be treated as a topic in it's own right

I had tried to decide whether to post this in the other thread or start a new one. Ultimately seeing so many league comparison posts on that thread led me to post it there even if I was going somewhat off topic, but having had a few hours pass I can see it would have been better to start a new topic on it. Thank you for moving it.

The depth in the EPL goes a bit deeper. Besides Bayern, Real, Barca, Milan, Inter and Juve in the long term no team can even come close to the Big 4 in the EPL, Teams like Roma, Lyon, Valencia and Bremen compete about players that would be of little interest to the big 4 anymore. The winner has not always been English recently, but if you look at the quarter finalists of the last 4 years you can clearly see English dominance taking shape.

But that's my point. You can't ignore those teams and say that the EPL will dominate and win the CL year after year. Domination will only really come after the EPL Big 4 manage to surpass even those teams in bold. Right now CL domination is still in the hands of the same powerful teams of the past 15 years. Chelsea was the only recent addition to this group of powerhouses.

[erick]

they have the best talent but u n eva noe in the CL and thats why its the best club competition because many teams have the chance to win.

teams like real madrid,barca,b.m.,inter, and juve have a chance to win it but by far the EPL is the best league.

[SportBoy333]

People think that only being champions means domnination. If you have 4 teams from the same league who are always in the quaters, semis or better every year then thats domination to me. Doesnt matter if one of them win it every year. The EPL Big 4 never ever fail to get out of their groups in the group stages. Thats domination to me. The 3rd and 4th place English teams 9 times out of 10 always win their qualifying match to get into the group stages(with the exception of Everton who arent part of the 'big 4' a few years ago) and that is domination to me. When you see the group stages come out every year, and u look at where the
Big 4' are,its always a lock they get out of their groups and thats domination. You dont even have to look at the other teams in their groups to make the assesment of whos going through because you know the English team will be one of them.

[evangel]

People think that only being champions means domnination. If you have 4 teams from the same league who are always in the quaters, semis or better every year then thats domination to me. Doesnt matter if one of them win it every year. The EPL Big 4 never ever fail to get out of their groups in the group stages. Thats domination to me. The 3rd and 4th place English teams 9 times out of 10 always win their qualifying match to get into the group stages(with the exception of Everton who arent part of the 'big 4' a few years ago) and that is domination to me. When you see the group stages come out every year, and u look at where the
Big 4' are,its always a lock they get out of their groups and thats domination. You dont even have to look at the other teams in their groups to make the assesment of whos going through because you know the English team will be one of them.

Did you somehow forget that Manchester United finished last in their group in the 05/06 season? Liverpool also had trouble getting out of their group last year. They're clear favorites to get out of the group stage, but it's not correct to say that they're guaranteed to do so.

And you somehow seem to believe that the EPL teams are doing something they haven't done before. They make the knockout stages, just like the big teams of Spain and Italy do. The past two years have certainly favored the EPL teams. But will that continue? It's difficult to provide proof that they're certain to have continual dominance.

[SportBoy333]

Did you somehow forget that Manchester United finished last in their group in the 05/06 season? Liverpool also had trouble getting out of their group last year. They're clear favorites to get out of the group stage, but it's not correct to say that they're guaranteed to do so.

And you somehow seem to believe that the EPL teams are doing something they haven't done before. They make the knockout stages, just like the big teams of Spain and Italy do. The past two years have certainly favored the EPL teams. But will that continue? It's difficult to provide proof that they're certain to have continual dominance.

I thought Valencia finished bottom in their group last year. Liverpool were still one of the favorites and they got out. The budgets of the EPL teams dont seem to be going down any time soon and they'll just keep getting larger. More money equals better chance for dominance.

[johan neeskens]

they have the best talent but u n eva noe in the CL and thats why its the best club competition because many teams have the chance to win.

teams like real madrid,barca,b.m.,inter, and juve have a chance to win it but by far the EPL is the best league.

The only reason they dominate right now is because they have the most money. It´s not on merit like in the old days.

[ManUSuperfan4Life]

EPL teams will dominate the Champions League for the same reason that MLS clubs will never have international success: money.

While money does not assure victory, it allows teams to have deep and talented rosters to compete on several fronts at once. At all levels, the EPL squads are much deeper than their Spanish and Italian counterparts.

[evangel]

I thought Valencia finished bottom in their group last year. Liverpool were still one of the favorites and they got out.

You're correct here. But I disagree with the notion that the EPL is so dominant that all their teams are guaranteed to make it far. You could make a safe bet that at least one EPL team will make it to the semifinals, but some people unrealistically believe that they will continue to get three teams in the semifinals every season.

[evangel]

EPL teams will dominate the Champions League for the same reason that MLS clubs will never have international success: money.

While money does not assure victory, it allows teams to have deep and talented rosters to compete on several fronts at once. At all levels, the EPL squads are much deeper than their Spanish and Italian counterparts.

Except they don't have much more money than their Spanish and Italian counterparts. Look at the following:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/34/biz_soccer08_Soccer-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,cid%253D193357,00.html

[SportBoy333]

Manchester City has more money than Borussia Dortmand. That doesnt seem logical but its true. Less than 5 years from now teams like Portsmouth will have just as much money as the Spanish and Italian giants and they already got more money than the German and French bigger clubs.

[evangel]

Manchester City has more money than Borussia Dortmand. That doesnt seem logical but its true. Less than 5 years from now teams like Portsmouth will have just as much money as the Spanish and Italian giants and they already got more money than the German and French bigger clubs.

If you at the Forbes list I gave, it shows that Manchester City is not above Borussia Dortmund, in both revenue and Forbes' valuations, though the list is for the 06/07 season. Even if the smaller EPL teams grow, it won't make a difference in terms of CL football. England will continue to receive only four spots, the same as Italy and Spain, so there will continue to a balance between the three in this competition.

[glennaldo_sf]

The last champions were Milan, Liverpool, Barcelona, Milan and Manchester United.
I see no domination.

Hmmm.... the last champions league had both finalists from the premiership, 3/4 semifinalists from the EPL.. in fact, the only team to eliminate and EPL team was in the quarterfinals by Liverpool - another EPL team. That's pretty much what I call domination. Milan won the previous CL but once again, 3/4 semifinalists came from England. In 2006 Arsenal reached the final and 2005 saw two English clubs in the semifinal. There's been an English club in the last 4 CL finals. In the last 4 years, nine of the possible 16 semifinalists have come from England. That's pretty much what I call domination. With Manchester City getting all that money, a lot of that will probably spill over to other clubs in the EPL so I doubt the league will get any weaker.

But then again, if Bayern Munich get Landon Donovan.... :cool:

[Alex_K]

Manchester City has more money than Borussia Dortmand. That doesnt seem logical but its true.

I have more money than Borussia Dortmund - that's not much of an achievement these days.