Is there a good side to all this embarrasment Canada is facing?

[aerez]

The question speaks for itself. Three important avenues in International soccer, with three poor results, with politics broiled into the soup.

- U20 Fifa Cup in Canada. No Goals, No Wins the first ever by a home nation.
- The Women's team qualify for the first olympics ever, but the style of play and tactics appear first hand to the type of coaching Canada offers talented players.
- Mens National Team World Cup qualifiers, the most talented team in recent history for Canada, only 1 point to show for it after two home games where the team had the lead twice.
- CSA is embroiled in embarrasement, corruption and critique. After the U20 the true colors begin to surface
- The same failure of a coach, gives his midas touch for the Mens current national team.


My short answer is: Yes, this is a good swift kick in the ass Canada deserves to understand what stupidity, and failure can achieve. Which is ridicule and embarrasement from other nations and loss of hope.

Now will something be done about it and will all the real changes begin or will it continue on like it did for all these years?

[wyly]

getting Canadians to agree on the same course of action is like herding cats, this will go on for generations the CSA will never change....we will only advance when the numbers of talented players increase to a point where talent overcomes the CSA's ineptitude...at which point the CSA will accept the credit...

[Polygong]

My short answer is: Yes, this is a good swift kick in the ass Canada deserves to understand what stupidity, and failure can achieve. Which is ridicule and embarrasement from other nations and loss of hope.


It hasn't worked in England.

[zasal911]

unfortunately there is no good side.

canada is not a sporting nation. It is not a country that is willing to invest in coaching or in facilities and as such whoever replaces the current administration will end up with another staff just like the one we currently have. NO UPSIDE. just wait until players like Friend and De Guzman stop coming over to play because its essentially pointless.

[Jogakanata]

I think if we can't put something together to, bring revenue to the country, give youth an oppertunity raise national pride than all of it is bullshit. Realistically its bigger than futbol.

[KLR650]

unfortunately there is no good side.

canada is not a sporting nation. It is not a country that is willing to invest in coaching or in facilities and as such whoever replaces the current administration will end up with another staff just like the one we currently have. NO UPSIDE. just wait until players like Friend and De Guzman stop coming over to play because its essentially pointless.
Canada is a "sporting nation"

Just because the government doesn't subsidize your favorite sport doesn't mean it isn't a "sporting nation"

Canada produces top flight professional soccer, hockey, baseball and football players without government subsidies. Even with minimal government subsidies, we still win Olympic medals in fringe (in the Canadian context) sports like wrestling.

Any country can get results after throwing money at sports, but Canada is such a good "sporting nation" that we produce decent results with minimal government subsidies.

[CanuckFan]

The question speaks for itself. Three important avenues in International soccer, with three poor results, with politics broiled into the soup.

- U20 Fifa Cup in Canada. No Goals, No Wins the first ever by a home nation.
- The Women's team qualify for the first olympics ever, but the style of play and tactics appear first hand to the type of coaching Canada offers talented players.
- Mens National Team World Cup qualifiers, the most talented team in recent history for Canada, only 1 point to show for it after two home games where the team had the lead twice.
- CSA is embroiled in embarrasement, corruption and critique. After the U20 the true colors begin to surface
- The same failure of a coach, gives his midas touch for the Mens current national team.


My short answer is: Yes, this is a good swift kick in the ass Canada deserves to understand what stupidity, and failure can achieve. Which is ridicule and embarrasement from other nations and loss of hope.

Now will something be done about it and will all the real changes begin or will it continue on like it did for all these years?

Sorry but your post is a bit dramatic. The majority of Cdns could not give a rat's ass about our soccer performance. We are a hockey nation.

Having said that, the U20 was a debacle as you have pointed out.

But our women's team took the US to extra time before losing out and were the ONLY team in the Olympics to score on the USA. Not so embarrassing is it?

Our mens' team has had some poor luck (take away the one goal keeping error and the shot off the cross-bar and game 1 is a 2-0 win for Canada) and Gerba's shot off the post would have made it 2-0 in the 1st half in the 2nd game.

I don't really see the words 'ridicule and embarrassment' applying here.

And finally, although the CSA is incompetent and aimless, there has been no evidence of 'corruption'. We leave that for many of our friends south of us.

[CanadaKicks]

Stumbling Forward
Written by Bill Ault
Wednesday, 10 September 2008

It appears Dale Mitchell has failed at his attempt to lead Canada to the promised land of a World Cup berth. Barring a miracle in Mexico he will join an ever growing list of coaches who have given their best but fallen short in the effort to get this country back on the world stage and he will pay the price with his job.

www.canadakicks.com

[zasal911]

Canada is a "sporting nation"

Just because the government doesn't subsidize your favorite sport doesn't mean it isn't a "sporting nation"

Canada produces top flight professional soccer, hockey, baseball and football players without government subsidies. Even with minimal government subsidies, we still win Olympic medals in fringe (in the Canadian context) sports like wrestling.

Any country can get results after throwing money at sports, but Canada is such a good "sporting nation" that we produce decent results with minimal government subsidies.

I disagree with you completely. I don't consider Canada a sporting nation at all. It is true that for a country of its size it does well at the olympics and other sports as well, but I think that has more to do with sporting individuals who thrive in spite of (as opposed to in part because of) the domestic sporting culture.

Canada does not support sport at almost any level. the government doesn't invest in it. People don't go out to see it (with only one or two exceptions). There are countries where wrestlers, pole vaulters, skiiers etc. are recognized and known by everyone...In Canada people couldn't care less who Carol Huynh is.

And it is absolutely true that Canada has worldclass athletes in all sorts of sports. Steve Nash, Jason Bay, De Guzman are great example. But put together a Canadian basketball, baseball, or soccer team and they get destroyed by the likes of Lithuania, Latvia, Venezuela, and Chinese Taipei.

These are guys (and girls) that thrive in spite of the local sporting culture, where the are not recognized by the public, where they have to leave the country to make a name for themselves, where domestic corporations are unwilling to fund their training, and where governments couldn't care less either.


this whole thing about sporting nation came up in regards to the financing of top coaches and facilities.

In my opinion, Canada is the type of country where some hurdler will show up out of nowhere, or somehow (without anyone knowing) some baseball catcher shows up in the mlb and everyone goes --> "hey look, that guy's Canadian. That's great". But no one ever says "lets build the sport" (ANY SPORT).

The only exception to this is hockey. And Canada isn't successful only because lots of kids play the sport growing up, its successful because the best coaches in the world take on the national teams at all levels and work in top notch facilities.


A sporting country, for teams sports, is one like Venezuela --> they sucked at soccer, it was like the 6th favorite sport in the country, and didn't even win their first official game until like 5 years ago. Yet, they said, "******** it, lets bring in good coaches from other countries and give the youth squads a decent place to train." And right now they're not the best, but they're a team that people take seriously and that have gotten huge wins.





Stumbling Forward
Written by Bill Ault
Wednesday, 10 September 2008

It appears Dale Mitchell has failed at his attempt to lead Canada to the promised land of a World Cup berth. Barring a miracle in Mexico he will join an ever growing list of coaches who have given their best but fallen short in the effort to get this country back on the world stage and he will pay the price with his job.

www.canadakicks.com

I haven't seen any indication that he has given his best. He's the type of guy that doesn't mind sitting back, tying a game that should've been won, and saying : "thats as well as we can do".

[Flyin Ryan]

Canada does not support sport at almost any level. the government doesn't invest in it. People don't go out to see it (with only one or two exceptions). There are countries where wrestlers, pole vaulters, skiiers etc. are recognized and known by everyone...In Canada people couldn't care less who Carol Huynh is.

Could not disagree more to be honest. We got the second-most gold medals at the Olympics, if you asked a random American to name them they'd answer "Michael Phelps" and "the basketball team".

Why should a government invest in sports though? What does Canada gain by giving $5 million to the Canadian Rowing Association? Or the Canada Soccer Association? I'm pissed off enough at my government because I'm paying for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's nationalization, you honestly think I'd want us to give money to the U.S. Soccer Federation on top of it? If you think it's important that the CSA should have more money, the solution is simple. Get out your wallet and write them a check. How many Canadians truly give a rat's ass about the Canadian World Cup Qualifying performance, that they would agree to the government helping pay for it? (Yes, you can make the same case for the U.S. as far as the country's collective level of caring.)

Just face it, you live in a part of the world that just does not care about soccer. None of the former British colonies in the Western Hemisphere prioritize soccer as their #1 sport (Canada: ice hockey, U.S.: American football for whites and basketball for blacks, English-speaking Caribbean: cricket) The U.S. overcomes this solely due to size, not because we're better than Canada or care more per capita. Canada in soccer is pretty much the U.S. with 10% of the population, just as Scotland in soccer is pretty much England with 10% of the population.

[aerez]

Sorry but your post is a bit dramatic. The majority of Cdns could not give a rat's ass about our soccer performance. We are a hockey nation.

I don't really see the words 'ridicule and embarrassment' applying here.

And finally, although the CSA is incompetent and aimless, there has been no evidence of 'corruption'. We leave that for many of our friends south of us.
Is it a bit dramatic? Can you offer me proof that the majority of Canadians don't care about our soccer performance, since this nations second highest enrollment is in soccer. Are we really just a hockey nation? People before you have said that and have never provided supporting evidence.

Your reasons given are your opinion, but subjective to say the least. Just as you view my post subjective.

If ridicule and embarrassment do not apply here, then why is there a good discussion going on?

Do you have supportive proof and can you say for certain there was no corruption going on in the CSA. My opinion stems from blogs and articles I have read from inside sources, pundits and small documentaries on television. Can you offer something as proof to switch my opinion?

[ECMoney]

Is it a bit dramatic? Can you offer me proof that the majority of Canadians don't care about our soccer performance, since this nations second highest enrollment is in soccer. Are we really just a hockey nation? People before you have said that and have never provided supporting evidence.

Your reasons given are your opinion, but subjective to say the least. Just as you view my post subjective.

If ridicule and embarrassment do not apply here, then why is there a good discussion going on?

Do you have supportive proof and can you say for certain there was no corruption going on in the CSA. My opinion stems from blogs and articles I have read from inside sources, pundits and small documentaries on television. Can you offer something as proof to switch my opinion?


If you poll 1000 random canadians I bet you 950 of them dont even know we have a national team and the other 49 could care less. There is 1 out of every 1000 that cares and that is the sad but truth of our country. Yes we play and love soccer at the youth and amateur level, but that is it. On that note, hopefully Canada can steal a point tonight in Mexico and go all out against Honduras in Honduras and get the full 3 pts!

[Jogakanata]

Being a hockey nation isnt an excuse for being sub-par in the rest of our athletetics, And alot Canadian care about our soccer but lose interest because they feel powerless to change the problems.

[Flyin Ryan]

Do you have supportive proof and can you say for certain there was no corruption going on in the CSA?

Translated: "Can you offer proof of a negative?"

Being a hockey nation isnt an excuse for being sub-par in the rest of our athletetics,

You kick our ass every time we play in rugby.

And in the 2006 World Baseball Classic, you beat the U.S. 8-6.

[smenge]

It is not embarrasing. Canada is ranked where it is in soccer for a reason. The loss to Mexico will be remembered for one thing only, why did Mexico fail to score five or more goals? The Canadian goal was, as usual, against the flow of play, and took the Mexicans by surprise. for 89 minutes, it was as one-sided as a Harlem Globetrotters contest. All this talk about Friend, and De Guzman, and De Rosario....what a joke, if these are the best players Canada can produce, it would be better for us to send our women's team next time. It is no surprise to me that De Rosario never made the trip to Europe, he was woeful last night, and the others were no better....there were Mexican's in the crowd, half drunk, and over 40, who could have stepped onto the pitch, and outplayed the Canadians.

[Jogakanata]

Thats harsh bro! DeRo's not the greatest but he understands the game, his problem is he's playing out of position, he's a striker not a mid-fielder, Deguz is good but he's not a star he needs help! he can play the style Canada needs to win but alot of the players cant. Rob friend should not start anymore he does for club but not for country, plus the type of game we need to play he is a none factor. Csa he needs to stop worryin about who plays where and get the best players this country has to offer period.

[hodgkiss]

well i have to agree that things so far haven't been ideal. and compared to the gold cup in 2007, it is night and day. we looked fantastic. we threatened, played a system, attacked well, defended well and the keepers looked solid.

this is basically the same team and same opponents...

the only real difference is who is coaching the team!

that is the only thing that can explain 1 point out of 9. (6 of those at home)

when the gold cup was played completely in a foreign environment with very little support...

fire dale now before it's too late. it already may be.
we need stephen hart/nick dasovic for the time being and if things don't go well with them, then we need to look elsewhere as soon as this run is over...

[TabLalas]

I'm and American and watched last nights game against Mexico and I thought you played Mexico very tough and should be proud of the effort that your team put in.

[jpg75]

Seems there alot of tangents in this thread.

Q: Is there a good side to all this embarassment?
A: We certainly have not had a good start to this Q campaign, but let's see if we fire Dale Mitchell and how we do in the last 3 games before we label this an embarassment. Honduras is a good team, but 4 years ago we nearly and probably should have walked out of San Pedro Sula with 3 points so there's no reason we can't win there. If however we lose and it's all over with then there's got to be some reflection done by the powers that be. If the status quo remains then this has been all for naught. It will be up to all of us to make a stink to help bring about change.

Q: Are we a sporting nation?
A: We have a large majority of children playing all types of different sports in this country and many of them play mulitple sports. Some dream of becoming professionals and they have direct, assisted paths to get there. We have a hadnful of professional sports franchises in this city. We have amateur sports teams all over the place. Parents pump thousands of dollars into their kids sports teams every year. We may not get the internaional results that the US do, but they're the elite Sporting nation in the world and have a population 10X ours. Australia may be a better comparison and people would be right to point out that they're more of a sporting nation than us, but they may be the best per capita Sports power in the world! If you compare the opportunities we provide our kids to what alot of other countries do we're not doing so badly. In some places, kids can't even play because they haven't eaten enough to have the energy to do so. That's sad.

Q: Are we a hockey nation?
A: Check out the TV ratings, that'll pretty much tell you everything you need to know. But if that doesn't do it for you, check the player registration #'s. Even at 2nd place there's almost a million kids playing and the game costs their parents thousands of $$'s each year. The amount of $$ poured into Hockey compared to other sports dwarfs them.

The perception that we suck at major sports is a vicious cycle. We've lost Owen Hargreaves and Jon De Guzman to our Soccer team because of this. If we had both of them (and Dani Fernandes) we'd probably be sitting pretty right now. As was already pointed out, our Baseball team did ok last summer in the WBC and we were missing a number of players - mostly pitchers. We have dozens of pros in MLB, a few of which are All-Stars. Our Basketball team with Steve Nash did well in 2000, but since then we've gone downhill. If we'd had Rick Fox and Jamaal Magloire joining Nash earlier this decade we would have been a contender. Our Rugby team had a very respectable showing in the '95 WC and then we established an amateur national league and even hired a professional coach. We maintained our standard for a bit, but then started to slip, the league folded and now we've regressed. We have over a dozen non-kickers in the NFL now. We produce most of the players in the NLL. Ah, i think i'm done now...point being, it's not all bad. The best thing we can do as Canadians is lose the "we suck" attitude and do something about it.

[Zoidberg]

well i have to agree that things so far haven't been ideal. and compared to the gold cup in 2007, it is night and day. we looked fantastic. we threatened, played a system, attacked well, defended well and the keepers looked solid.

this is basically the same team and same opponents...

the only real difference is who is coaching the team!



...and this is World Cup qualifying. That is another big difference you forget to mention. The level of play in WC qualifying compared to GC play is a clear step up. Intensity, desire, prep, preparation, physical play, less young/experimatal players...you name it. GC is also a tourney. A short burst and knockouts. This isn't.

It is not the same IMO. Not even close.

Canada is a solid team. Tough draw, but I think many are overestimating your actual ability.

All fans do it. The way it is.

I brought this up in the other thread. Candians look at the Guat match in the GC as a high point. It was, but does anyone with a bit of comkon sense think th eGuats would paly the Canadians the same way again? They thoght they could play with you guys and couldn't. Nest time they would bunker, couter and scrap and it would be a very different match.

Also, as I said in the other thread, Canada was hard done with that last call in the US match, but the US had so many chances before then it was lucky to come to that. Canada only became effective ion the last 15-20 minutes by playing direct ball and a version of old time hockey. They were pretty ineffective for 70 minutes passign it around in a pretty fashion but here, and many Canadians, unitl they see the game again think they were better. They clearly were not. Watch again.

Same way US fans blow the WC02 out of proportion. We were 2-2-1. Got a team whose number we have in the QF and some luck with other results to get there. We aren't top 8. Never have been and to act like we have the talent is plain fandom. Same way Canadian fans are putting way to much into that last GC. Sorry, the way it is.