Suggestion for new European football set-up

[johan neeskens]

I was talking about this the other day with a fellow poster and we agreed: now that the financial gap between the top three leagues and the others in Europe is so huge and the CL is set up only to make rich clubs even richer, many of us would be much happier if said top three leagues would just play the CL amongst themselves and let the others play in the UEFA cup. They can keep calling it the CL and UEFA can keep on bigging it up, I don't mind. What this will achieve however is that it'll make the UEFA cup much more fair and interesting, and those who are fed up with the cynical instittution that is the money-obsessed CL, no longer have to waste time on it. Plus those who think that the CL is the only quality football around no longer have to bother with lower league low quality football.

Mr. Platini if you're reading this: You know it makes sense.

[SportBoy333]

I dont like your idea. I dont think Bayren Munich would be happy playing in the UEFA Cup. I'd rather try to think of a way to lessen the gap between the top 3 leagues and the rest. Actually, the way things are going now there wont be a top 3 for much longer it will just be the EPL seperated from everyone else. The EPL will basically be like the Champions League.

[BocaFan]

Don't like the idea either. Firstly, i's not really feasible since a 10-12 team CL involving 3 leagues isn't going to rake-in the same kind of money as a prestigious-sounding "European Cup" with 32 teams does (even if said 32-team competition is only truly about 3 leagues and 10-12 teams).

Secondly it makes domestic leagues less interesting. Teams who fall out of the title race will have one less thing to play for. Could you imagine the EPL without the UEFA Cup? What will teams like Man City, Everton and Spurs play for?

[SportBoy333]

The only way its stays a top 3 is if teams like Fiorentina and Valencia become like Manchester City and we know thats not happening. Since Man City is the new Chelsea then whats stopping Portsmouth, Newcastle, Tottenham, etc from joining them. Real Madrid, Barca, Milan, Juve, Inter will continue to dominate their leagues but they wont have the competition like in England where big 4 will soon become the big 8 probably and that widens the gap between the EPL and other leagues. Are rich, foreign billionares looking to invest in the Spanish and Italian equivilents of Man City and Chelsea ? No I dont think so. If Deportivo La Coruna stars spending 100 m on transfers then you've sold me on the big 3 staying pat.

[BocaFan]

Valencia is still one of the top favorites to win the UEFA Cup, Man City is not. Clearly you're getting ahead of yourself a bit.

Lets at least wait until Man City can beat the likes of FC Midtjylland before we declare them to be as good as Valencia much less "the new Chelsea".

[SportBoy333]

I was talking about spending power mostly. Man City is now able take David Villa from them without a flinch but before they couldnt. You watch. I hope youre not crying when eventually Napoli's best player leaves for Portsmouth for 30 M.

[BocaFan]

I was talking about spending power mostly. Man City is now able take David Villa from them without a flinch but before they couldnt. You watch. I hope youre not crying when eventually Napoli's best player leaves for Portsmouth for 30 M.

Bad example because if he doesn't go to Portsmouth for $30m, he probably would've gone to Juventus for $15m.

Anyway, just because a club is taken over by a foreign billionaire doesn't mean the team is going to start being successful on the pitch. The Chelsea case is unusual because Roman doesn't mind eating huge losses every year. But in other cases the club still needs to generate the revenue needed to offset their expenses. Look at QPR.

[bspsoccer]

The Chelsea case is unusual because Roman doesn't mind eating huge losses every year.

And you believe that Man City won't be willing to eat huge losses? From reading Al-fahim's (sorry if i got his name wrong) interview, it sounds like hes a rich boy with an expensive toy... and he wants to sink a lot of money.

I completely agree that money doesnt buy success, but if they are willing to eat huge losses, they will be successful in time. They may not be able to attract the players who want to play for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man U, but they will still be able to buy considerable talent.

[johan neeskens]

Secondly it makes domestic leagues less interesting. Teams who fall out of the title race will have one less thing to play for. Could you imagine the EPL without the UEFA Cup? What will teams like Man City, Everton and Spurs play for?

They'd be competing for the extra CL spots the premiership would get, that's my point.

[johan neeskens]

Anyway some of you make valid points about how far ahead the premiership is in financial terms even of the other two big leagues. So I've changed my idea.

Let the 16 richest clubs in Europe (I'm guessing 10 English clubs, 2 Spanish clubs, 2 Italian clubs, 1 French club, one German club) break out of UEFA, and indeed their own domestic league altogether, and start their own European superleague. Let them accommodate investors in their club and television audiences and make it a travelling circus, I envisage quarter finals in Moscow, semifinals in Dubai, and a final in the US.

Then let UEFA in turn go back to its original European football set-up, i.e. champions only qualify for the CL in a knock-out tournament from start to finish without a pre-tournament proper qualifying system. Cup winners to the cup winners cup, best of the rest to UEFA.

Again this will keep everybody happy. The television stations and overseas audiences who as we all know for the major part are mostly interested in big clubs and competitions anyway, the big club investors who can earn even more money out of such a superleague than they do already from the CL, big club fans who see their club compete only against the best. Non-superleague clubs meanwhile can look forward to European competition on a far more level playing field.

I hope you know where I'm coming from on this: the way the CL is set up now, rich clubs will get richer and the gap will widen ever further. What's the point of watching a competition that essentially isn't a competition? I personally couldn't care less about the prestige of the CL. I want to be entertained by football first and foremost, and the way it is now, the CL isn't entertaining me one bit - it is in fact entertaining only a very elitist group of clubs and fans. So let them break out and we won't have to have this discussion anymore.

[Chess_Panther]

Well, but if the premiership gets flooded with billionaire owners in the future...other magnats will turn their attention to other leagues. Seems logic...doesn't mean I want that though.
The point is are we ok if such scenario happened...to be in the hands of spoiled kids and dubious men all over western europe/russia?

But anyway, it would be bad for UEFA at many levels if Premiership bought all the talents in the world. For prevention they would probably apply the law of 5/6 foreigners per team.

[Fry36]

This would kill the excitement in the other leagues. Sure, the giants are guaranteed millions of Euros every year because of the huge gap between the teams, but the top teams of smaller, less prestigious leagues strive to become regulars in the CL. That's what keeps the "stars" of those teams from going to the top leagues, even if it means going to a team with no international targets. The thrill of supporting your team in the Champions League is much greater than following the UEFA Cup, also. Taking away the "Champions League spirit" from the Dutch, Portuguese, Russian, Turkish, Ukranian, Greek, Scottish, French fans is just murder. This would just lower the teams' goals and dreams. Who would want the European football to come to a point where in a span of 5 years Real Madrid faces Manchester United like 10 times, and clubs with bright futures are forced to play against teams of their own caliber forever? Wouldn't this just widen the gap we're all complaining about? When Porto took the CL title, when Fenerbahce made it to the quarter finals last season, don't you think it made them strive for an even better, more consistent performance? These teams want to be in the battle against the giants in Europe, and in time become a part of the top tier. More teams with such goals = a tougher, more rigorous club competition.

[BocaFan]

I hope you know where I'm coming from on this: the way the CL is set up now, rich clubs will get richer and the gap will widen ever further. What's the point of watching a competition that essentially isn't a competition? I personally couldn't care less about the prestige of the CL. I want to be entertained by football first and foremost, and the way it is now, the CL isn't entertaining me one bit - it is in fact entertaining only a very elitist group of clubs and fans.

Then watch football from South America. It offers everything you seek.

[johan neeskens]

Then watch football from South America. It offers everything you seek.

The Dutch league is plenty entertaining thanks! Besides why would I would to watch South American football when the Twente stadium is a 15 minute walk from my home. It's just the way UEFA competitions are set up that I take issue with as they're longer a fair competition.

[johan neeskens]

This would kill the excitement in the other leagues. Sure, the giants are guaranteed millions of Euros every year because of the huge gap between the teams, but the top teams of smaller, less prestigious leagues strive to become regulars in the CL. That's what keeps the "stars" of those teams from going to the top leagues, even if it means going to a team with no international targets. The thrill of supporting your team in the Champions League is much greater than following the UEFA Cup, also. Taking away the "Champions League spirit" from the Dutch, Portuguese, Russian, Turkish, Ukranian, Greek, Scottish, French fans is just murder. This would just lower the teams' goals and dreams.

The point is that the Dutch, Greek, Scottish, French etc are under no illusion that the way the CL is set up now, they'll ever win it. The gap simply is too big, and you'll find that smaller league fans are very realistic about this. Another point some people can't understand is that we would rather see our club compete in a competition where you have a chance of winning than in a competition where you know beforehand you have no chance whatsoever.

Smaller leagues will never reach the financial level of say the premiership because for various reasons (partly population size) they'll never generate as much television revenue. As long as they can't generate enough television revenue, they'll never attract foreign investors. So these smaller league clubs all hit a financial ceiling at some stage. This in turn means they can't keep a squad together for longer than one or maybe two seasons. This in turn means they can't consistently perform on the highest level. This in turn results in them falling down the UEFA rankings ladder. Which in turn results in them not being seeded for CL football. Which in turn results in them not getting through CL qualifying. Which in turn results in them dropping even further down the UEFA rankings. Which in turn results in their league getting lower and lower UEFA coefficient points. Which in turn leads to this league's clubs having to start in the first round of CL qualifying. Etc, etc etc, etc.

In short it's a vicious circle. The way things are going now, only the top 16 richest clubs will survive in the CL anyway. So rather than watch this process take years, I'd rather we get it over with in one go. And I wouldn't lose one night of sleep over the thought of my club never again playing CL football either by the way. I actually would love my idea for European club competition.

[Duck Manson]

They should go back to the original format. Only the league winner gets into the Champions League and it's knock out rounds from day one. How the hell is it a 'Champions' league if Liverpool is in it? It's ********ing idiotic. Half the people on BigSoccer weren't even born last time Liverpool won the league.

[|--LdC--|]

The point is that the Dutch, Greek, Scottish, French etc are under no illusion that the way the CL is set up now, they'll ever win it. The gap simply is too big, and you'll find that smaller league fans are very realistic about this. Another point some people can't understand is that we would rather see our club compete in a competition where you have a chance of winning than in a competition where you know beforehand you have no chance whatsoever.

Smaller leagues will never reach the financial level of say the premiership because for various reasons (partly population size) they'll never generate as much television revenue. As long as they can't generate enough television revenue, they'll never attract foreign investors. So these smaller league clubs all hit a financial ceiling at some stage. This in turn means they can't keep a squad together for longer than one or maybe two seasons. This in turn means they can't consistently perform on the highest level. This in turn results in them falling down the UEFA rankings ladder. Which in turn results in them not being seeded for CL football. Which in turn results in them not getting through CL qualifying. Which in turn results in them dropping even further down the UEFA rankings. Which in turn results in their league getting lower and lower UEFA coefficient points. Which in turn leads to this league's clubs having to start in the first round of CL qualifying. Etc, etc etc, etc.

In short it's a vicious circle. The way things are going now, only the top 16 richest clubs will survive in the CL anyway. So rather than watch this process take years, I'd rather we get it over with in one go. And I wouldn't lose one night of sleep over the thought of my club never again playing CL football either by the way. I actually would love my idea for European club competition.

Overall on the short term it sucks for medium nations like Holland, Portugal, Greece, Turkey etc but there is also the possibility of getting alot of money trough sales to those rich clubs.
FC Porto is a good example of that, on the last 4 years we sold Paulo Ferreira, Bosingwa, Ricardo Carvalho, Pepe, Costinha, Deco, Maniche, Quaresma, Derlei, Anderson, Mccarthy etc we got something like 200 million euros... we managed to invest alot of this money in new players, pay debt and develop infrastructures, obviously some was splashed on bad deals but thats part of business.

There are opportunitties for the big teams of the medium nations and also for the smaller teams of those nations, FC Porto invest alot in buying players in the portuguese league and other medium leagues, thus generating new sources of income to those teams.

The big leagues could have all the money in the world but in the end only one can win the domestic league, the CL and the Uefa Cup.

Plus it seems some of you forget how the 90s were and the mad money invested by Serie A... its all about cycles, nowadays EPL is atracting billionaires because they were smart enough to promote their league worldwide and because they run their league and clubs with huge professionalism, unlike many teams in Italy or Spain.

The sad truth is that nations like Holland and Portugal will never have the tv markets that could allow their teams o be more competitive.

[SportBoy333]

They should go back to the original format. Only the league winner gets into the Champions League and it's knock out rounds from day one. How the hell is it a 'Champions' league if Liverpool is in it? It's ********ing idiotic. Half the people on BigSoccer weren't even born last time Liverpool won the league.

I wouldnt be surprised if eventually the Premier League starting petitioning for more Champions League spots. Their 4 spots now wont be enough for them and I bet they'll want 5 or 6.

[BocaFan]

The Dutch league is plenty entertaining thanks! Besides why would I would to watch South American football when the Twente stadium is a 15 minute walk from my home. It's just the way UEFA competitions are set up that I take issue with as they're longer a fair competition.

Another point some people can't understand is that we would rather see our club compete in a competition where you have a chance of winning than in a competition where you know beforehand you have no chance whatsoever.


Because Twente has no chance whatsoever of winning the Dutch league. Based on everything you've written lately, it seems like the wrong club/league for you to follow. That's why I recommended a South American competition. :o

[GersMan]

I used to love kicking this stuff around but it seemed like it was hard to top the entertainment level of the current CL setup.

My favorite notebookcreation was a season-long European league with two or even three tiers to it. They could play only midweek and you could limit all domestic leagues to only weekend play. It would basically mean two matches every week and for the bigger clubs, they are pretty much already there, especially August through December.

The way it is now though, there's something rather special about European nights. If you just took those 16 or 20 clubs out of their domestic leagues and had them play each other all the time, I think the enthusiasm would wane, especially from those who support other clubs. My team isn't in Europe this year but I'll still watch the Champions League on those special nights. I don't follow leagues in France, Holland or Greece however.

Most fans of the big 4 in England for instance, still revel in winning the Premiership. Even though those places in the table seem permanent, it's still the week-in, week-out focus for those fans. There's nothing like CL nights, but if that was all those clubs had, I'm not sure it would be the same from a supporters' viewpoint. Remember when they had 2 group stages for the CL? I think everybody agreed in the end it was too much Euro football.

And remember that the seemingly permanent places those 4 clubs and others like them around Europe enjoy, really aren't permanent. We're talking about a fairly recent period of time. Things can change. Torquay United won't be playing in Europe 10 years from now, but you can't be so dogmatic to say Man City or Everton or Spurs won't. Things happen. You just don't know.