All Football, all the time, twice over

[Femfa]

Unfortunately, that means pointyball.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/02/commentary/column_sportsbiz/sportsbiz/index.htm?cnn=yes

But I hear a tennis channel is coming to fruition - if so, why can't there be a soccer channel? All soccer, from around the world. And Fox doesn't count - not enough soccer.

[stanleyt]

So you've got a problem with Rugby and the World Dominoes Championship?! LOL

Give it time. One would think the cost of acquiring league rights from around the world would be cost prohibitive w/o genuine revenue streams from airing matches from said leagues. I'd love to see matches from the African Nations Cup- especially since it carries World Cup reprecussions.

I think FSW would like to be all soccer but I'm sure those infomercials for real estate, viagra-style drugs and home improvement tools are what's paying the rent right now.

I think the idea of an all footy channel will take hold in Europe before it hits here.

[monster]

Originally posted by Femfa
Unfortunately, that means pointyball.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/02/commentary/column_sportsbiz/sportsbiz/index.htm?cnn=yes

But I hear a tennis channel is coming to fruition - if so, why can't there be a soccer channel? All soccer, from around the world. And Fox doesn't count - not enough soccer.

1. I doubt The Football Channel will be around very long if it ever really does get any foothold in the first place.

2. There is a tennis channel and it has had rough going in the beginning,

3. When someone wants a soccer channel, they can start one. The real answer is the same one that is always true - not enough people care.

4. There are so many cable channels out there. http://www.ncta.com/industry_overview/programList.cfm is a list of all of them. Why just have a soccer channel for the sake of having one? There shouldn't be one until it is a viable enterprise.

5. If you think there's not a lot of soccer on TV, I'm astounded. Why does having it one one channel make it any different or better? I prefer it this way where people can get what they want in many different ways.

[Femfa]

Originally posted by monster
1. I doubt The Football Channel will be around very long if it ever really does get any foothold in the first place.

2. There is a tennis channel and it has had rough going in the beginning,


I'm shocked, simply shocked! My point was, worldwide, soccer is more popular - it'd be nice to have a channel for us.


3. When someone wants a soccer channel, they can start one. The real answer is the same one that is always true - not enough people care.

I care. Unfortunately, I can't start a soccer channel.

4. There are so many cable channels out there. http://www.ncta.com/industry_overview/programList.cfm is a list of all of them. Why just have a soccer channel for the sake of having one? There shouldn't be one until it is a viable enterprise.

Agreed



5. If you think there's not a lot of soccer on TV, I'm astounded. Why does having it one one channel make it any different or better? I prefer it this way where people can get what they want in many different ways.

I suppose I'm lazy. I'd prefer not having to hunt around for soccer - instead just have one place that has it on - kinda like my TV home page.

Bottom line, I realize it's not terribly realistic, but if I can't gripe about it here, what's the point of posting?

[Sachin]

Originally posted by Femfa

Bottom line, I realize it's not terribly realistic, but if I can't gripe about it here, what's the point of posting?

It's sig-worth, folks!

Sachin

[rangers00]

Originally posted by Femfa
I'm shocked, simply shocked! My point was, worldwide, soccer is more popular - it'd be nice to have a channel for us.

And you are probably too lazy to find out what that channel is. Based on this, you do NOT deserve to have a soccer only channel...


I suppose I'm lazy. I'd prefer not having to hunt around for soccer - instead just have one place that has it on - kinda like my TV home page.

Yes, you are definiteiy lazy. Not only you are too lazy to hunt around for soccer, you are even too lazy to hunt around for an all-soccer channel that has existed for over 6 months.

We have talked about this channel frequently on BigSoccer. Of course, you are too lazy to hunt for those posts...

In the past 4-5 years, people often talk about "why isn't there an all-soccer channel?".

Now there is an all-soccer channel, there are still ignorants who ask why there isn't an all-soccer channel...

See, this type of channel canNOT come to existence...


Bottom line, I realize it's not terribly realistic, but if I can't gripe about it here, what's the point of posting?
People have been watching 3 la Liga and 2 Serie A games just this past weekend. So what's your point of posting? to show that you are not keeping up with time?

[Femfa]

Er - you mean GolTV? Even the site will admit thier focus is limited.

"GolTV works with professionalism and efficiency to bring to the millions of Hispanic residents in North America the best games from many Latin American countries as well as complete coverage of soccer from around the world with live international matches, daily newscasts, interviews and the most complete goal show on TV."

So it's basically an expat channel.

I do watch it at times, but my Spanish is rusty - and the English simulcast isn't very good - and their coverage is VERY Hispanic-focused. Not that I don't mind La Liga, or South America or MFL, but come, on there's much more out there.

When I said soccer-specific, I was kinda thinking a channel that would actually call it soccer - and not just in translation.

[Femfa]

Originally posted by Sachin
It's sig-worth, folks!

Sachin

Aw . . .

Cool - first time I've made a sig this year .

[rangers00]

Originally posted by Femfa
Er - you mean GolTV? Even the site will admit thier focus is limited.

"GolTV works with professionalism and efficiency to bring to the millions of Hispanic residents in North America the best games from many Latin American countries as well as complete coverage of soccer from around the world with live international matches, daily newscasts, interviews and the most complete goal show on TV."

So it's basically an expat channel.


But what's the problem with an expat channel? You ask for a soccer channel, not a USA soccer channel. GolTV is exactly that, a 24/7 soccer channel. That fits the requirement.


I do watch it at times, but my Spanish is rusty - and the English simulcast isn't very good - and their coverage is VERY Hispanic-focused. Not that I don't mind La Liga, or South America or MFL, but come, on there's much more out there.

But if there's much more out there (i.e. in the world), then it's still an ex-pat channel. So you are not satisfied with GolTV because it's

- an expat channel (i.e. cover soccer outside the U.S.)? or
- it doesn't cover enough soccer FOR EXPATS because "there's much more out there"?

So which is it?


When I said soccer-specific, I was kinda thinking a channel that would actually call it soccer - and not just in translation.

People, especially those in the U.S., have no problem understanding the Spanish word "Gol". In other words, if you need a translator to know that "Gol" means "Goal", and thus disqualify that as a soccer channel, then it's your problem, not any other soccer fans' problem.

In other words, if there is a channel called "Futebol channel", or "Fussball channel", or "de Football canal", you don't consider it a soccer channel, right?

Let me show you a channel in Hong Kong. It's called "Super Soccer". Look at their menu.

http://www.21126888.com/timetable/tt.asp?chno=ch61

But it shouldn't be considered a soccer channel by your standard, because

- it's called "Soccer", which is not the way to call the sport in an ex-British colony. Anything not called "Football" should be disqualified.
- its inventory is La Liga, Bundesliga, UEFA Cup, Euro 04 quals, J-League. Too much European football, no domestic football, no South American football, no African football, no MLS, no Middle-east football, so your "there is much more out there", "it's an expat channel" still applies.

In other words, your reasoning of "there is no soccer channel in the U.S." does NOT WASH AT ALL. You are making up totally non-sense reasons why GolTV is not a soccer channel.

[keyvan9]

Let’s start, in the interest of disclosure, with this: I work for Gol TV, but I am speaking only for myself.

You want an American soccer channel, and you have it. It may not be exactly how you like it right now, and it’s on Dish Network as an enticement to drive subscription, and help build it to your likeness. If you watch it, and WRITE your cable company and us, and let us know what you like and don’t like (write to golive@goltv.tv). FYI: It should soon be on Comcast.

This thing about an “expat” channel and “Hispanic focused” does not mean understanding the word “Gol,” because none of us needs somebody to tell us what we can see. I do have an issue about your comment that “the English is not very good.” (more on that later).

You have some intelligent conversation in here (some comments from “Femfa”notwithstanding) so you are a fairly sophisticated bunch. I am surprised some of you don’t know about Gol TV. And that is our fault too. Gol TV may have a lot of Peruvian, Ecuadorian, South or Central American soccer. But it also has things like (Spain) La Liga and Serie A (Italy) and the UEFA Cup, internationals and World Cup qualifiers. Expat or not, soccer is soccer. And what is the World Cup, if not an international experience?

If the only thing that’s not “expat” is MLS, then soccer fans are in trouble. Because this sport you care about is a global product. MLS does not yet realize that much of teams’ popularity come from the sense of belonging and connection developed with the fans. If you prefer to chant “Ole, Ole, Ole” prompted by a loudspeaker or change teams because your favorite player’s salary puts the club 10 grand over the cap, then be my guest. FYI, as someone who grew up with the NASL, I am glad that MLS is here (and hope it will be here in 10 years). But there are changes to be made in MLS for it to truly convince me (unlike life, a terrible performance in MLS carries no penalties nor repercussions with no promotion/relegation).

There is, however, much more to this sport if you scratch below the superficial level. Femfa, you are lazy and demanding, so I must agree with the response of Rangers 00. You are the equivalent of a soccer player who won’t run if he doesn’t get a perfect pass.You want a soccer channel, but don’t care enough to look for it or accept that it has elements aimed at people who are passionate about the sport.

The point is: It’s a global game, and you will learn something from hearing or learning a different point of view. You will learn about many things, not just soccer. You will be enriched with knowledge, culture and sport.

To wit: The fact that Real Madrid was Franco’s favorite team, and Barcelona and Nou Camp was the only way to manifest Catalonian nationalism during the Franco years (stop here if you need to know who Franco is). The fact that Juventus is so popular in the south of Italy is due to the fact that Juve is a symbol of the post war industrialization and political power in Italy, that many of the Fiat factory workers come from the South and migrated to Turin. To understand why Zidane is so popular in the Middle East and Africa, you need to know the Colonial history of Algeria (Zidane’s parents are Kabyle, which is an ethnic group from that African country).

Even if you have no clue about Lazio’s fascist past, or Croatia Zagreb’s Bad Blue Boys, Zvonimir Boban and their crucial role in the establishment of current Croatia and Dynamo Kiev’s role in Ukranian history you obviously appreciate the sport. But you cannot ignore or overlook the soccer fields built in Lebanon on the land where the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps were; how national teams like Uruguay, Italy and Germany reflect national characteristics or why Chivas Guadalajara, Athletic Bilbao, Nacional (Ecuador and Colombia) and others have only home-grown players. Alianza Lima has a fatal air disaster like Man United (with no survivors to fuel the media legend) and Torino, they are the first team of Claudio Pizarrro (for you Bayern fans).

We want to transmit the passion and color, and the history of this sport and culture, of teams you may be familiar with or not know at all. The rich and beautiful world of soccer, the same sport which you follow and has hooked the whole world.

If you think players show up at Chelsea, Man U, Juve, Milan, and Real without a past or formation and they are synthesized there to appear on your screen, then you are the equivalent of the soccer village idiot. Only interested in what they see around you. Or the soccer arriviste - the person who buys Versace or BMW not because it looks good or fits you, but because it’s a popular and well-known brand.

And even if that’s what teams and Nike are doing now – Real Madrid, Newscastle, Milan, Man United, Boca Juniors, Bayern and all the others , building a brand to sell in a world that buys names and fame before quality.

Here at Gol TV I am the on-air voice for the Real Madrid programming, and it bothers me to hear people saying it’s only a translation of Spanish. And even though I realize Real Madrid is a carefully constructed product, they base their product on a winning tradition and the most exquisite players in the world. Style and substance. And Real won 6 European crowns before Man U had their first. And 3 more since Man U repeated. With the exception of some games voiced in London, we are a product made for you in the US.

There are talents like ESPN veteran Phil Schoen, Julian Gonzalez in news and some newcomers in soccer broadcasting. And if you think you’re hot and unknown, send us an e-mail and we can talk.

Personally, I have interviewed the players you read about and have written in the magazines and worked for the networks which help you form your opinions about soccer (including Soccer America, World Soccer, ESPN, La Gazzetta dello Sport, L’Equipe and 4-4-2). Have interviewed the players you know and some you should know, (including Stanley Mathews, Juan Schiaffino, Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, Zidane and many more).


Even if we have a full plate of programs, we do our homework try to give you some background if you are not an expert and certainly don’t talk down to you.
Without espousing one league or another, I just want to point out how there are so many things to learn and digest if you pay attention.

Thanks mostly to soccer, I also speak Spanish, Portuguese, French, German and Italian, and have been all over the world and been enriched when I could have chosen sit in a TV studio every night and talk about Kobe, da Bears or Cleveland.

But I personally have been pleasantly surprised by Liga de Quito from Ecuador, wowed by Rafael van der Vaart and Nihat Kahveci, and there are pleasant surprises all around the sport. So look for players like Wilmer Aguirre of Alianza Lima, Christian Rodriguez, Horacio Peralta and Charlie Good of Uruguay here on Gol TV.

If you want to continue consuming the Man U propaganda, be my guest. But if you want to know what this sport is about, watch Gol TV. Granted, the marketing of the channel is directed at some foreign communities, but it’s also for you. Capito?

Keyvan Antonio Heydari – k.heydari@goltv.tv

[Femfa]

Originally posted by keyvan9
Let’s start, in the interest of disclosure, with this: I work for Gol TV, but I am speaking only for myself.

Handy of you to CYA in this specific regard- while I appreciate your coming on these boards - let's also establish that, via the above statement, your objectivity is nil.


You want an American soccer channel, and you have it. It may not be exactly how you like it right now, and it’s on Dish Network as an enticement to drive subscription, and help build it to your likeness. If you watch it, and WRITE your cable company and us, and let us know what you like and don’t like (write to golive@goltv.tv). FYI: It should soon be on Comcast.
Nice job getting the commercial in. Primarily speaking, I was whining about a lack of soccer-specific programming that was geared to the American soccer market, which is far more diverse than the limited focus of GolTV. It's hard to want to give input to an outlet which specifically states its focus market - thus implying that they have decided on their mission, and don't want to variete from that party line.

This thing about an “expat” channel and “Hispanic focused” does not mean understanding the word “Gol,” because none of us needs somebody to tell us what we can see. I do have an issue about your comment that “the English is not very good.” (more on that later).
I don't like simulcasts in general - I hate the cheap Hong Kong action film experience of lips moving in complete disjunction with the dialog - or the extraneous dialogue made to match the fact that the announcer kept talking. It's irritating to the degree that it ruins the subject matter, which I love, completely.
You have some intelligent conversation in here (some comments from “Femfa”notwithstanding) so you are a fairly sophisticated bunch. I am surprised some of you don’t know about Gol TV. And that is our fault too. Gol TV may have a lot of Peruvian, Ecuadorian, South or Central American soccer. But it also has things like (Spain) La Liga and Serie A (Italy) and the UEFA Cup, internationals and World Cup qualifiers. Expat or not, soccer is soccer. And what is the World Cup, if not an international experience?


You don't know me, but you apparently feel comfortable rating the intelligence level of my posts. Have you based this on this thread alone, or bothered to read anything else? I love that soccer is an international experience, which is why I take offense - and in the not-my-personal-preference way - at a soccer channel that seems to purposely ignore this by catering to the Hispanic market. I'm part of that market - yet I still value the fact that many of the most die-hard soccer fans I know are not.



If the only thing that’s not “expat” is MLS, then soccer fans are in trouble. Because this sport you care about is a global product. MLS does not yet realize that much of teams’ popularity come from the sense of belonging and connection developed with the fans. If you prefer to chant “Ole, Ole, Ole” prompted by a loudspeaker or change teams because your favorite player’s salary puts the club 10 grand over the cap, then be my guest. FYI, as someone who grew up with the NASL, I am glad that MLS is here (and hope it will be here in 10 years). But there are changes to be made in MLS for it to truly convince me (unlike life, a terrible performance in MLS carries no penalties nor repercussions with no promotion/relegation).

Great, another, "I won't accept MLS until it conforms to my expectations", regardless of the rising level of soccer involved. You so-called purists are really just snobs. I'd have more respect if you admitted this, instead of couching it in such "I need to be convinced" phrasing.


There is, however, much more to this sport if you scratch below the superficial level. Femfa, you are lazy and demanding, so I must agree with the response of Rangers 00. You are the equivalent of a soccer player who won’t run if he doesn’t get a perfect pass.You want a soccer channel, but don’t care enough to look for it or accept that it has elements aimed at people who are passionate about the sport.



Ah, how well you know me - you are truly gifted. Because I won't call you a soccer channel - meaning a channel that looks beyond the futbol crowd - I'm the one who is lazy? You, however, for not looking beyond the already loyal and lucrative Hispanic market to build the sport and your channel to a wider audience, many of whom are hungry for more of the sport, are not the least bit lazy. Hypersensitive, mebbe.



The point is: It’s a global game, and you will learn something from hearing or learning a different point of view. You will learn about many things, not just soccer. You will be enriched with knowledge, culture and sport.


Oooh, watching GolTV will make me a better person? More kind, and accepting of the fact that it actually ignores much of the game's global perpective?


To wit: The fact that Real Madrid was Franco’s favorite team, and Barcelona and Nou Camp was the only way to manifest Catalonian nationalism during the Franco years (stop here if you need to know who Franco is).
More historical trivia from Spain - it's national anthem is played, but the words no longer sung, since they were written for and glorifying Franco's rule. My point? None, really. Your point? That soccer and politics should mix? Dangerous, in my view.


The fact that Juventus is so popular in the south of Italy is due to the fact that Juve is a symbol of the post war industrialization and political power in Italy, that many of the Fiat factory workers come from the South and migrated to Turin.
Jeez, so soccer has little to do with the skill and beauty of the play involved? It's all about symbolism?


To understand why Zidane is so popular in the Middle East and Africa, you need to know the Colonial history of Algeria (Zidane’s parents are Kabyle, which is an ethnic group from that African country).
You sound like those who tried to nominate soccer for the Nobel Peace Prize.


Even if you have no clue about Lazio’s fascist past, or Croatia Zagreb’s Bad Blue Boys, Zvonimir Boban and their crucial role in the establishment of current Croatia and Dynamo Kiev’s role in Ukranian history you obviously appreciate the sport. But you cannot ignore or overlook the soccer fields built in Lebanon on the land where the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps were; how national teams like Uruguay, Italy and Germany reflect national characteristics or why Chivas Guadalajara, Athletic Bilbao, Nacional (Ecuador and Colombia) and others have only home-grown players. Alianza Lima has a fatal air disaster like Man United (with no survivors to fuel the media legend) and Torino, they are the first team of Claudio Pizarrro (for you Bayern fans).

Have you read these boards at all? Lazio's ties have been debated to death, and Chivas USA is probably one of the top topics right now - with posters referring at various points to civil law, the Founding Fathers and De Crevecour's "What is an American" to support their various viewpoints.



We want to transmit the passion and color, and the history of this sport and culture, of teams you may be familiar with or not know at all. The rich and beautiful world of soccer, the same sport which you follow and has hooked the whole world.

Sure - that's what you want to transmit - according to your own website, to the Hispanics in America. Guess, what, mister-with-all-your-history, there's more than Hispanics in America. And a lot of them follow soccer.

If you think players show up at Chelsea, Man U, Juve, Milan, and Real without a past or formation and they are synthesized there to appear on your screen, then you are the equivalent of the soccer village idiot. Only interested in what they see around you. Or the soccer arriviste - the person who buys Versace or BMW not because it looks good or fits you, but because it’s a popular and well-known brand.

Cool. Now you even know what I drive. Except, not.


And even if that’s what teams and Nike are doing now – Real Madrid, Newscastle, Milan, Man United, Boca Juniors, Bayern and all the others , building a brand to sell in a world that buys names and fame before quality.

Because these teams obviously showcase a very poor level of quality, you mean?


Here at Gol TV I am the on-air voice for the Real Madrid programming, and it bothers me to hear people saying it’s only a translation of Spanish. And even though I realize Real Madrid is a carefully constructed product, they base their product on a winning tradition and the most exquisite players in the world. Style and substance. And Real won 6 European crowns before Man U had their first. And 3 more since Man U repeated. With the exception of some games voiced in London, we are a product made for you in the US.

Oh, so it's not a translation? Then why are you the on-air voice? Instead of the on-air talent? It would kill the studio or the camera to put you on?


There are talents like ESPN veteran Phil Schoen, Julian Gonzalez in news and some newcomers in soccer broadcasting. And if you think you’re hot and unknown, send us an e-mail and we can talk.
Me? Me? Who cares how hot I might be when I'm the lazy, demanding village idiot?


Personally, I have interviewed the players you read about and have written in the magazines and worked for the networks which help you form your opinions about soccer (including Soccer America, World Soccer, ESPN, La Gazzetta dello Sport, L’Equipe and 4-4-2). Have interviewed the players you know and some you should know, (including Stanley Mathews, Juan Schiaffino, Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, Zidane and many more).

Now you know what I read? Well, ok, on this one, you're pretty close.

Even if we have a full plate of programs, we do our homework try to give you some background if you are not an expert and certainly don’t talk down to you. Ahem - lazy, demanding, unintelligent, village idiot - I'd hate to hear you actually TRYING to talk down to me.


Without espousing one league or another, I just want to point out how there are so many things to learn and digest if you pay attention.
Vice versa - especially since the only league you specifically denounced was MLS

Thanks mostly to soccer, I also speak Spanish, Portuguese, French, German and Italian, and have been all over the world and been enriched when I could have chosen sit in a TV studio every night and talk about Kobe, da Bears or Cleveland.
So you can insult people you don't know in a variety of languages. How cosmopolitan.

But I personally have been pleasantly surprised by Liga de Quito from Ecuador, wowed by Rafael van der Vaart and Nihat Kahveci, and there are pleasant surprises all around the sport. So look for players like Wilmer Aguirre of Alianza Lima, Christian Rodriguez, Horacio Peralta and Charlie Good of Uruguay here on Gol TV. Let's see, I've watched Gol TV in the past - but now I'm reconsidering even that. Galavision, FoxSports, et al, may just have won my loyalty forever.


If you want to continue consuming the Man U propaganda, be my guest. But if you want to know what this sport is about, watch Gol TV. Granted, the marketing of the channel is directed at some foreign communities, but it’s also for you. Capito?

I don't own or support Man U anything - except for Timmy Howard. A channel is what it markets to. As a female, I obviously know I can watch Spike TV, just like my boyfriend can watch Lifetime, but we both know where the channel's own loyalties lie. Same in this case. Even if I happen to be in that foreign community, I don't support that approach. A soccer channel should be about the sport, first and foremost.

[/B]

Keyvan Antonio Heydari – k.heydari@goltv.tv

[rangers00]

Originally posted by Femfa

Primarily speaking, I was whining about a lack of soccer-specific programming that was geared to the American soccer market, which is far more diverse than the limited focus of GolTV.


OK, Einstein, please enlighten us, what EXACTLY is the American soccer market?

You don't suppose a niche channel (a soccer-specific channel) would get the plum games (World Cup, USMNT, MLS Cup final, etc.), do you? Do you think the two pointy-ball channels you quoted would get the Super Bowl or live NFL games?

The point is, the American soccer market is very diversed, with as many expats who are interested in futbol from their birthplace as Americans interested in the MLS. A futbol channel, even if it focuses on Latin American futbol, even has a more valid business model than a soccer channel that geared towards American-centric fans.


I love that soccer is an international experience, which is why I take offense - and in the not-my-personal-preference way - at a soccer channel that seems to purposely ignore this by catering to the Hispanic market.


You want someone to cater a channel for you, at least you have to have a critical mass that share the same interest as yours.

I take offense that there is no ping-pong channel, field hockey channel, badminton channel, water polo channel in the U.S. What happen to equal opportunities?


Because I won't call you a soccer channel - meaning a channel that looks beyond the futbol crowd - I'm the one who is lazy?

Absolutely YES. Because GolTV has been showing that they are looking beyond the futbol crowd: la Liga, UEFA Cup, Serie A, etc., plus the fact that they dedicate an English version of the channel to the non-Hispanic audience. And GolTV hasn't even reached one-year-old.

You don't see any Univsion Ingles or Telemundo Ingles, do you?


Let's see, I've watched Gol TV in the past - but now I'm reconsidering even that. Galavision, FoxSports, et al, may just have won my loyalty forever.

Your loss.

I've been following international soccer in the U.S. since the 1970s. I also followed the NASL back then. One thing is very important in following soccer in this country: have an open mind. I've watched soccer on obscure satellite channels in Arabic, Farsi and Korean. With this "if it's Latin focus then it's not a soccer channel" type of attitude, it's only your loss if you deliberately skip Real Madrid x Barcelona or Roma x Lazio, never mind the games are broadcasted in English on a widely available DBS platform...

[Femfa]

Originally posted by rangers00
But what's the problem with an expat channel? You ask for a soccer channel, not a USA soccer channel. GolTV is exactly that, a 24/7 soccer channel. That fits the requirement.

No, what I meant by a "soccer channel" is a channel that would focus on soccer - to an American audience (since we're the ones who call it soccer). The American soccer audience is not only Hispanics, rangers00. I never said anything about it focusing only on American soccer.


But if there's much more out there (i.e. in the world), then it's still an ex-pat channel. So you are not satisfied with GolTV because it's

- an expat channel (i.e. cover soccer outside the U.S.)? or
- it doesn't cover enough soccer FOR EXPATS because "there's much more out there"?

So which is it? I pick C - where Gol Tv's stated goal and apparently fufilled intention is to market and aim its product at Hispanic viewers - instead of the entire American soccer market.



People, especially those in the U.S., have no problem understanding the Spanish word "Gol". In other words, if you need a translator to know that "Gol" means "Goal", and thus disqualify that as a soccer channel, then it's your problem, not any other soccer fans' problem. So, if they can't understand the Spanish announcers, or think the "simultaneous" translation is more annoying than useful, that's just their problem? Actually, I'm quite sure the absolute die-hard fan will put up with it. I have several times. My point is, they shouldn't have to. We should have a GOAlTV for those who don't speak Spanish.



In other words, if there is a channel called "Futebol channel", or "Fussball channel", or "de Football canal", you don't consider it a soccer channel, right? As in, I don't consider it a soccer channel for Americans? If it's in English, it might have more of a shot than GolTV. You keep harping on the idea that I already explained - since soccer is the American name for the sport, when I say soccer channel, I mean one marketed to us, not just a limited segment of our population.



Let me show you a channel in Hong Kong. It's called "Super Soccer". Look at their menu.

http://www.21126888.com/timetable/tt.asp?chno=ch61

But it shouldn't be considered a soccer channel by your standard, because

- it's called "Soccer", which is not the way to call the sport in an ex-British colony. Anything not called "Football" should be disqualified.
- its inventory is La Liga, Bundesliga, UEFA Cup, Euro 04 quals, J-League. Too much European football, no domestic football, no South American football, no African football, no MLS, no Middle-east football, so your "there is much more out there", "it's an expat channel" still applies.
Actually, I like this line up a lot. What's more important, however, is that I bet the entire soccer public of Hong Kong does too. I'll bet that the announcers call the games in Chinese. GolTV limits its viewers by language, game coverage, and most of all, By Their Own Stated Intent that they are there to serve a Hispanic market. That wouldn't happen to be you, would it, rangers00?

In other words, your reasoning of "there is no soccer channel in the U.S." does NOT WASH AT ALL. You are making up totally non-sense reasons why GolTV is not a soccer channel.

OK, fine, it's a soccer channel - geared primarily at the Hispanic "futbol" audience, but yes, a soccer channel.

A soccer channel that doesn't transmit primarily in the main language of country that receives its broadcasts and skews its programming to only one segment of the soccer audience, most of whom would never deign to call the sport "soccer." But why quibble? A soccer channel is a soccer channel. Now I'm getting a dish so I can check out the feed from Hong Kong.

[Femfa]

Originally posted by rangers00
OK, Einstein, please enlighten us, what EXACTLY is the American soccer market?

You don't suppose a niche channel (a soccer-specific channel) would get the plum games (World Cup, USMNT, MLS Cup final, etc.), do you? Do you think the two pointy-ball channels you quoted would get the Super Bowl or live NFL games?

The point is, the American soccer market is very diversed, with as many expats who are interested in futbol from their birthplace as Americans interested in the MLS. A futbol channel, even if it focuses on Latin American futbol, even has a more valid business model than a soccer channel that geared towards American-centric fans.
Here's where we actually AGREE - at least partly. I'm saying the American market is very diverse - hell, for that matter, the Hispanic market is very diverse, but the American market even more so. GolTV is tackling one, not the other. A channel is what its marketing dictates. GolTV is geared to the Hispanic "futbol" market. You're saying its for business reasons, I don't disagree. But that's why I avoid calling it a "soccer" channel. Yes, it covers the sport, but not to the market that uses the word.


You want someone to cater a channel for you, at least you have to have a critical mass that share the same interest as yours.

I take offense that there is no ping-pong channel, field hockey channel, badminton channel, water polo channel in the U.S. What happen to equal opportunities?

Now we're back to the first argument on this board, which is that a soccer channel isn't realistic. The soccer critical mass IMHO, has not been reached partly because we've grown so used to having to salvage for scraps via dish, web, etc.


Absolutely YES. Because GolTV has been showing that they are looking beyond the futbol crowd: la Liga, UEFA Cup, Serie A, etc., plus the fact that they dedicate an English version of the channel to the non-Hispanic audience. And GolTV hasn't even reached one-year-old.

You don't see any Univsion Ingles or Telemundo Ingles, do you?

Big of them, isn't it, to look beyond the futbol crowd and throw a few crumbs. The English version doesn't even have its own on-air announcers. It's a cheesy voice-over. You've just admitted the first point about them not being a soccer channel.


Your loss.

I've been following international soccer in the U.S. since the 1970s. I also followed the NASL back then. One thing is very important in following soccer in this country: have an open mind. I've watched soccer on obscure satellite channels in Arabic, Farsi and Korean. With this "if it's Latin focus then it's not a soccer channel" type of attitude, it's only your loss if you deliberately skip Real Madrid x Barcelona or Roma x Lazio, never mind the games are broadcasted in English on a widely available DBS platform...

I have an open mind - I watched Gol TV before one of its employees came on here and insulted me. I just never considered it a soccer channel. I thought it was a good place for "futbol" and to practice my Spanish.

[rangers00]

Originally posted by Femfa

No, what I meant by a "soccer channel" is a channel that would focus on soccer - to an American audience (since we're the ones who call it soccer).

And you are telling me that a channel that broadcast European games IN ENGLISH does not focus on American audience? then what audience do you think they focus on? Italian or Mexicans?


I pick C - where Gol Tv's stated goal and apparently fufilled intention is to market and aim its product at Hispanic viewers - instead of the entire American soccer market.

GolTV's **STATED** goal and it's execution are two different things. What do you believe more? their actions or their statements?

If they claim that they target Hispanic audience, yet they broadcast European games in English, so their action obviously contradict their words. Yet you are so hung up with their words that you refuse to watch their English broadcasts?


So, if they can't understand the Spanish announcers, or think the "simultaneous" translation is more annoying than useful, that's just their problem?

Yes, if you refuse to watch a game simply because of the announcers, that's your problem. Either live with it, or go to a place that announce soccer in English, like the U.K. But wait, they don't target American audience in the British football telecasts. They broadcast the EPL and Nationwide, with only 1 MLS game per week...


We should have a GOAlTV for those who don't speak Spanish.

Should according to whom? I mean, American fans are happy to watch live Serie A and la Liga games in English, something we haven't had in this country for a long long time. Whether there is an "A" in the channel name is the least of their concern. At least you are the only one on this board complaining there is no "A" in the channel name. Until I see massive complaints here, you are making a fuse out of thin air...


since soccer is the American name for the sport, when I say soccer channel, I mean one marketed to us, not just a limited segment of our population.

But GolTV is NOT marketed to a limited segment of our population. It' broadcasted in English, don't you know that? It's part of Dish Network's English language package, not Dish Latino package.


Actually, I like this line up a lot. What's more important, however, is that I bet the entire soccer public of Hong Kong does too.

Oh, so are you willing to bet that the American public (soccer fans) like Goltv's lineup? especially la Liga, Serie A and UEFA Cup? yes or no?

Yes? then if it's more important that the local fans like the lineup (Serie A or la Liga on GolTV), then what's your problem?

No? then can you substantiate that? Opinions in this forum show the contrary...

See, you are contradicting yourself. By praising Super Soccer's lineup while bashing Goltv, you painted yourself into a corner...


I'll bet that the announcers call the games in Chinese. GolTV limits its viewers by language,

You mean the American audience don't understand English?


game coverage,

Why do you like Super Soccer's non-domestic coverage while hate GolTV's non-domestic coverage? Super Soccer is geared towards an audience that follow the European game, you like it. Yet if GolTv is geared towards an audience that follow the Latin American game, you take offense to that. See how you contradict yourself?


and most of all, By Their Own Stated Intent that they are there to serve a Hispanic market.

which is contradicted by their own actions, by providing an English channel on the same games. So what limit are you talking about?

[rangers00]

Originally posted by Femfa
[quote]
GolTV is tackling one, not the other.

If GolTV is tackling one (at least trying to), it's the American market, not the Hispanic market. Which segment do you think is bigger in the U.S.? English speaking or Spanish speaking?

Of course, I can easily forsee that GolTv's English language experiment will fail (not enough English speaking audience to justify a 2nd feed/production). I also forsee that GolTv Spanish will go the same route as PSN (bankruptcy).


A channel is what its marketing dictates. GolTV is geared to the Hispanic "futbol" market. You're saying its for business reasons, I don't disagree. But that's why I avoid calling it a "soccer" channel. Yes, it covers the sport, but not to the market that uses the word.

So? at least I don't see people refusing to watch Serie A because it's called "GolTv" instead of "soccerTV". Your non-sense reasoning is that you are so hung up with the "words", you don't even watch the games. Are you a real fan? I mean, if they called "Bayern Muenchen x Koln" instead of "Bayern Munich x Cologne", you'll refuse to watch because they didn't use the right words, right?


The English version doesn't even have its own on-air announcers. It's a cheesy voice-over. You've just admitted the first point about them not being a soccer channel.

Really? how so? I've always insisted that GolTV is a soccer channel, so how did I admit that them not being a soccer channel?


I just never considered it a soccer channel.

Your own words:

"OK, fine, it's a soccer channel - geared primarily at the Hispanic "futbol" audience, but yes, a soccer channel."

I see that arguing and logic is not your strong suit...

[Femfa]

Originally posted by rangers00
And you are telling me that a channel that broadcast European games IN ENGLISH does not focus on American audience? then what audience do you think they focus on? Italian or Mexicans?

[b]
GolTV's **STATED** goal and it's execution are two different things. What do you believe more? their actions or their statements?

If they claim that they target Hispanic audience, yet they broadcast European games in English, so their action obviously contradict their words. Yet you are so hung up with their words that you refuse to watch their English broadcasts?

[b]
Yes, if you refuse to watch a game simply because of the announcers, that's your problem. Either live with it, or go to a place that announce soccer in English, like the U.K. But wait, they don't target American audience in the British football telecasts. They broadcast the EPL and Nationwide, with only 1 MLS game per week...

[b]
Should according to whom? I mean, American fans are happy to watch live Serie A and la Liga games in English, something we haven't had in this country for a long long time. Whether there is an "A" in the channel name is the least of their concern. At least you are the only one on this board complaining there is no "A" in the channel name. Until I see massive complaints here, you are making a fuse out of thin air...

[b]
But GolTV is NOT marketed to a limited segment of our population. It' broadcasted in English, don't you know that? It's part of Dish Network's English language package, not Dish Latino package.

[b]
Oh, so are you willing to bet that the American public (soccer fans) like Goltv's lineup? especially la Liga, Serie A and UEFA Cup? yes or no?

Yes? then if it's more important that the local fans like the lineup (Serie A or la Liga on GolTV), then what's your problem?

No? then can you substantiate that? Opinions in this forum show the contrary...

See, you are contradicting yourself. By praising Super Soccer's lineup while bashing Goltv, you painted yourself into a corner...

[b]
You mean the American audience don't understand English?

[b]
Why do you like Super Soccer's non-domestic coverage while hate GolTV's non-domestic coverage? Super Soccer is geared towards an audience that follow the European game, you like it. Yet if GolTv is geared towards an audience that follow the Latin American game, you take offense to that. See how you contradict yourself?

[b]
which is contradicted by their own actions, by providing an English channel on the same games. So what limit are you talking about?

You're arguing yourself in circles here.
Fact: The stated intent of GolTV to serve the Hispanic is matched by their programming. You and the GolTV poster here both testified to that. The occasional Euro game notwithstanding, and the English simulcast - which I granted, even though I think it sucks - doesn't change that.

Liking Super Soccer's line-up doesn't mean I hate GolTV's - I merely pointed out that GolTV was mostly ignoring the segment of the American audience that would prefer something other than Latin American games.

You can't have it both ways, telling me that GolTV is focused on "futbol" and then saying that a few Euro games and an English voice-over means it really wants to draw soccer fans.

I've listened to the English broadcasts - or didn't you actually read my previous posts? They suck, especially when the lipreading of the Spanish announcers makes it clear they're actually saying something quite different than the so-called translation.

Whatever, rangers00 - you're just arguing now to - well, I don't really know, and don't care. My points were made, you ignored half of them and repeated yourself and if I answer you again, I'll be doing the same.

[Femfa]

[soccer channel?


Your own words:

"OK, fine, it's a soccer channel - geared primarily at the Hispanic "futbol" audience, but yes, a soccer channel."

I see that arguing and logic is not your strong suit... [/QUOTE]

Irony is definitely not yours.

[rangers00]

Originally posted by Femfa
You're arguing yourself in circles here.
Fact: The stated intent of GolTV to serve the Hispanic is matched by their programming.

FACT: the stated intent of Goltv to serve the Hispanic is strongly refuted by their actions.


You and the GolTV poster here both testified to that.

Nope, I repeatedly testify that they actually serve English speaking Americans, not just Hispanics.

You, on the other hand, confess that Goltv is a "soccer channel", which contradicted your own claim that you don't consider Goltv a soccer channel. Interesting, huh?


The occasional Euro game notwithstanding, and the English simulcast - which I granted, even though I think it sucks - doesn't change that.

Sure it does, and you have ABSOLUTELY no way to dispute that.

What's the purpose of inducing the extra costs of producing the English version and beaming the extra feed if they don't intend to serve the English speaking audience?


Liking Super Soccer's line-up doesn't mean I hate GolTV's

It just means you refuted all the reasoning that you argue against GolTv too, using the same logic.


- I merely pointed out that GolTV was mostly ignoring the segment of the American audience that would prefer something other than Latin American games.

And who are you to speak for the American audience? Do you represent all soccer fans in the U.S. who are not Hispanics?

GolTV's inclusion of UEFA Cup, Serie A and la Liga does exactly that, reach out to the segment that prefer something other than Latin American games. The inclusion of la Liga/Serie A and the English broadcast totally changes the landscape of this channel.


You can't have it both ways, telling me that GolTV is focused on "futbol" and then saying that a few Euro games and an English voice-over means it really wants to draw soccer fans.

I sure can have it both ways, because there is no rule saying that a channel cannot cover both European and South American games. A soccer channel does not have to exclude Latin American games to draw the American audience.

As an analogy, I can say that ESPN focuses on baseball, but I can also say that they are trying to draw NFL fans. There is no rule saying that a channel cannot wear 2 hats, or 3 hats, or 4 hats.


I've listened to the English broadcasts - or didn't you actually read my previous posts? They suck,

Whether they suck or not is NOT a fact. It's merely your own opinion. Who gave you the rights to represent the whole English audience? Did you do a survey?

If announcers suck == they don't intent to broadcast to that audience, then USING YOUR sucky logic, ABC and ESPN never intended to broadcast the World Cup to Americans, because Jack and Ty SUCK!!!


Whatever, rangers00 - you're just arguing now to - well, I don't really know, and don't care. My points were made, you ignored half of them and repeated yourself and if I answer you again, I'll be doing the same.
You have no way to argue this subject. You are contradicting yourself in the first place, and then now you are banking your argument on misinformation: what Goltv advertises on its web-site instead of what they actually do. In other words, your falsehood that GolTV only targets Hispanic audience absolutely won't fly.

[rangers00]

Originally posted by Femfa
[soccer channel?


Your own words:

"OK, fine, it's a soccer channel - geared primarily at the Hispanic "futbol" audience, but yes, a soccer channel."

I see that arguing and logic is not your strong suit...

Irony is definitely not yours. [/QUOTE]

Really? I caught you contradicting yourself on whether Goltv is a soccer channel or not. What irony are you talking about? care to cite some?