TFC bids for another WC spot

[photar74]

Originally posted by sidspaceman
Sorry I just don't see why CONMEBOL should have as many automatiac spots as CONCACAF and one less than Asia.

Well, you are absoultely right if the only factors in determining WC spaces was performance on the field. If that were tha case, then CONMEBOL would have 4.5. (and CONCACAF would have 3.5)

However, unfortunately, performance on the field is not the only factor for FIFA. Population, geographic diversity and, above all, money are also factors.

Also, you better get used to a smaller amount of spaces for CONMEBOL. Its a practically lock that they will only have 4.0 for 2006, as UEFA, AFC, CAF and OFC are all overwhelmingly in support of deducting a half space from CONMEBOL's allocations.

[sidspaceman]

I think that plan went out the window when the African running against Blatter lost the election. I don't see Blatter screwing over CONMEBOL since they overwhelming supported him this last time around.

[Tick]

Originally posted by photar74

UEFA: 13.0-13.5 + Germany
CAF: 5.0
AFC: 4.5-5.0
CONMEBOL: 4.0-4.5
CONCACAF: 3.0-3.5
OFC: 0.5-1.0


I see AFC's bottom end at 3.5 spots, not 4.5. Honestly, I don't think they deserve any more than 3, but I know they won't go that far down.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Tick


I see AFC's bottom end at 3.5 spots, not 4.5. Honestly, I don't think they deserve any more than 3, but I know they won't go that far down.

Given the soccer explosion in Asia of the last 20 years, the AFC will likely keep it's 4 spots. The open bid will go to the OFC and everything else will stay the same. The allocation of spots for the World Cup hasn't been steady at best.

[Slash/ED]

"Or a mini preWorld Cup of the half-slots. Final 2 of 4 (or 3 of 6) goto the worldCup.

2002 would have seen something like this:

Ireland
Iran
Hondurus
Australia
Paraguay
New Zealand(???)"

Doesn't make sense to put Ireland in there, surley this would be for the second placed European side with the lowest points rather then the highest line Ireland, as this seems trickier then a two legged playoff against a European side.

[Qdog]

Originally posted by DoyleG


Given the soccer explosion in Asia of the last 20 years, the AFC will likely keep it's 4 spots. The open bid will go to the OFC and everything else will stay the same. The allocation of spots for the World Cup hasn't been steady at best.

Given the soccer explosion in North America over the last 16 years, having hosted the WC twice, starting a new league in the US, preparing to start another league in Canada, Mexico fighting with the best in Copa Liberatores (sp), and CONCACAF out performing Asia and Africa in every way mearsurable, CONCACAF will likely rate an extra spot.

However it doesn't work that way. It's all about politics and money. Africa shot their wad during the last election and missed. Don't be surprised if their 20% success rate in getting teams to second round is used against them. Plus there's no big money reason to cuddle up to them. Expect them to lose at least a half slot this time around.

Because we voted for Blatter as a whole, and there are good money incentives (Mexico, and the development of soccer in the US) don't be surprised if we get the extra slot, or at lease a playoff for a 4th spot.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Qdog
Given the soccer explosion in North America over the last 16 years, having hosted the WC twice, starting a new league in the US, preparing to start another league in Canada, Mexico fighting with the best in Copa Liberatores (sp), and CONCACAF out performing Asia and Africa in every way mearsurable, CONCACAF will likely rate an extra spot.

It will only work if CONCACAF can learn to perform well outside of it's region. 2002 was a start, but they have to keep it up if they want even that extra .5 of a spot.

Originally posted by Qdog
However it doesn't work that way. It's all about politics and money. Africa shot their wad during the last election and missed. Don't be surprised if their 20% success rate in getting teams to second round is used against them. Plus there's no big money reason to cuddle up to them. Expect them to lose at least a half slot this time around.

Not all of Africa voted against Blatter. No Sepp would have likely meant no Cup for Africa. Considering they went from a laughing stock in '74 to a strong continent today tells how far Africa has improved.

Originally posted by Qdog
Because we voted for Blatter as a whole, and there are good money incentives (Mexico, and the development of soccer in the US) don't be surprised if we get the extra slot, or at lease a playoff for a 4th spot.

Votes and money won't mean everything. That would lead to infighting amongst the Confederations for favours.

[deejay]

Originally posted by DoyleG


Given the soccer explosion in Asia of the last 20 years, the AFC will likely keep it's 4 spots. The open bid will go to the OFC and everything else will stay the same. The allocation of spots for the World Cup hasn't been steady at best.

soccer explosion is highly relative. There are only four competitive teams in all of Asia: Japan, Korea, Iran and Saudia Arabia (although not this time).

Maybe China will be competitive but then that would make a grand total of five teams?

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by deejay


soccer explosion is highly relative. There are only four competitive teams in all of Asia: Japan, Korea, Iran and Saudia Arabia (although not this time).

Maybe China will be competitive but then that would make a grand total of five teams?

And how many in CONCACAF?

[Qdog]

Originally posted by DoyleG


It will only work if CONCACAF can learn to perform well outside of it's region. 2002 was a start, but they have to keep it up if they want even that extra .5 of a spot.



Not all of Africa voted against Blatter. No Sepp would have likely meant no Cup for Africa. Considering they went from a laughing stock in '74 to a strong continent today tells how far Africa has improved.



Votes and money won't mean everything. That would lead to infighting amongst the Confederations for favours.

Point 1: Reference my original post. CONCACAF has outperformed Asia and Africa in every measureable catagory at the World Cup, the Mexican team results in Copa Liberadores, and include CONCACAF taking 2 seconds, 2 thirds, and a forth in the last 5 Copa America competitions.

Point 2: Africa is much stronger now. Good for them. But their results still don't hold up to CONCACAF.

Point 3: I wish that was true, but unfortunately it is not. The only reason the confederation heads are talking about gaining slots or maintaining what they have is because the decision is political. I would much rather have an objective system, such as the one UEFA uses for determining Champions League slots. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

As for your comment to deejay on how many competitive teams CONCACAF have, I would like our odds in a tournament featuring our top 4 versus theirs. If you want to increase the numbers, I would feel good about Jamaica, T&T, and Guatamaula, as well as your own Canada, against their best 8. That would go for Africa as well.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Qdog

Point 1: Reference my original post. CONCACAF has outperformed Asia and Africa in every measureable catagory at the World Cup, the Mexican team results in Copa Liberadores, and include CONCACAF taking 2 seconds, 2 thirds, and a forth in the last 5 Copa America competitions.

The Copa Liberadores and the Copa America don't matter to FIFA. They base the spots on the world cup. One quaterfinalist won't convince FIFA.

Originally posted by Qdog
Point 2: Africa is much stronger now. Good for them. But their results still don't hold up to CONCACAF.

Win-Loss records are meaningless. Having teams in the 2nd round since 1986 is, especially if it's outside your confederation.

Originally posted by Qdog
Point 3: I wish that was true, but unfortunately it is not. The only reason the confederation heads are talking about gaining slots or maintaining what they have is because the decision is political. I would much rather have an objective system, such as the one UEFA uses for determining Champions League slots. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Objective? It's meant to be a benfit for the stronger clubs. You will see Austrian and Norwegain clubs in the groups stage, not Irish or Polish teams. The system, liek the 2nd group stage, is a joke.

Originally posted by Qdog
As for your comment to deejay on how many competitive teams CONCACAF have, I would like our odds in a tournament featuring our top 4 versus theirs. If you want to increase the numbers, I would feel good about Jamaica, T&T, and Guatamaula, as well as your own Canada, against their best 8. That would go for Africa as well.

T&T isn't that good, especially since that implosion in the hex. Guatemala isn't as good. Canada, with a healthy team, can compete as well.

[deejay]

Originally posted by DoyleG


And how many in CONCACAF?

Moot point considering that CONCACAF isn't asking for four+ spots.

Concacaf can probably field about five competitive countries. Don't forget Jamaica beat Japan in '98 and they were fifth place in the final qualifying hex for '02. Also Guatemala, who didn't make it to the final hex is a decent team.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by deejay


Moot point considering that CONCACAF isn't asking for four+ spots.

Concacaf can probably field about five competitive countries. Don't forget Jamaica beat Japan in '98 and they were fifth place in the final qualifying hex for '02. Also Guatemala, who didn't make it to the final hex is a decent team.

Look what happened at the '99 Copa Caribe. Jamacia collapsed and finished behind Martinique, a country that can't qualify for the World Cup. Jamacia has been having some cash flow problems as well.

[Elninho]

Originally posted by DoyleG


Look what happened at the '99 Copa Caribe. Jamacia collapsed and finished behind Martinique, a country that can't qualify for the World Cup. Jamacia has been having some cash flow problems as well.

Either that or they sent their B- or C-team. They seemed pretty decent in World Cup qualifying - not great, but at least competitive.

If you're going to use Jamaica losing out to Martinique in 1999 as an example of how weak CONCACAF supposedly is, then consider Tunisia's spectacular collapse at the African Nations Cup this year, where they failed to score a single goal. And this is a country that DID qualify for the World Cup! Or Iran's shocking loss to Bahrain in World Cup qualifying. My guess is that you're going to point to these and call it depth in the CAF and AFC. If this constitutes depth in other confederations, why should it constitute weakness in ours?

[Tick]

Originally posted by DoyleG
The Copa Liberadores and the Copa America don't matter to FIFA. They base the spots on the world cup. One quaterfinalist won't convince FIFA.

Win-Loss records are meaningless. Having teams in the 2nd round since 1986 is, especially if it's outside your confederation.

Okay, using your criteria, tell me why Asia deserves more WC spots than Concacaf.

Concacaf has a better record at the WC, more teams in the next round, benefits less from homefield advantage... what has Asia done?

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Tick


Okay, using your criteria, tell me why Asia deserves more WC spots than Concacaf.

Concacaf has a better record at the WC, more teams in the next round, benefits less from homefield advantage... what has Asia done?

I was talking about Africa, not Asia.

[deejay]

Originally posted by DoyleG


I was talking about Africa, not Asia.

At least for me, the whole point of this thread is that Asia should not get more spots than '98. CONCACAF on the other hand would be fairly served with 3.5 spots.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by deejay


At least for me, the whole point of this thread is that Asia should not get more spots than '98. CONCACAF on the other hand would be fairly served with 3.5 spots.

Asia won't get any more spots for now. Neither will CONCACAF.

[Qdog]

Originally posted by DoyleG

The Copa Liberadores and the Copa America don't matter to FIFA. They base the spots on the world cup. One quaterfinalist won't convince FIFA.

Win-Loss records are meaningless. Having teams in the 2nd round since 1986 is, especially if it's outside your confederation.

Objective? It's meant to be a benfit for the stronger clubs. You will see Austrian and Norwegain clubs in the groups stage, not Irish or Polish teams. The system, liek the 2nd group stage, is a joke.

T&T isn't that good, especially since that implosion in the hex. Guatemala isn't as good. Canada, with a healthy team, can compete as well.

Hey, you brought up international competition. So now it doesn't count? Fine, but show me where spots are based on the World Cup. If that was true, CONCACAF would already have more slots then Asia or Africa, and you know it as well.

"Win-Loss records are meaningless". LOL. That's beautiful. You've been taking lessons from theprimierleague. But OK, I will humor you. Look at CONCACAF, second rounders from '86 through '02, none stop. By the way, when it comes to the Cup, FIFA doesn't pay attention to home field advantage, only BS posters and columnists looking for excuses/support.

Asia/CONCACAF top 8 teams:

Korea Mexico
Japan USA
Iran Costa Rica
Saudi Arabia Honduras
China T & T
UAE Jamaica
Iraq Guatamala
Thailand Canada

Cut the line where you may, but I would take CONCACAF over AFC regardless.

By the way, the reason Ireland and Polish clubs don't make it to the Champions League is because they don't win in the UEFA competitions they compete in. When they start winning, they will get more slots. That's being objective.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Qdog
Hey, you brought up international competition. So now it doesn't count? Fine, but show me where spots are based on the World Cup. If that was true, CONCACAF would already have more slots then Asia or Africa, and you know it as well.

Africa wouldn't have it's spots if not for Cameroon in 1990. After the World Cup, the head of FIFA stated that Africa would get an additional spot in the World Cup. The Copa America means little since CONCACAF teams are "guest teams". Same with "guest teams" in the Gold Cup.Learn to compete in the World Cup and you will get something.

Originally posted by Qdog
"Win-Loss records are meaningless". LOL. That's beautiful. You've been taking lessons from theprimierleague. But OK, I will humor you. Look at CONCACAF, second rounders from '86 through '02, none stop. By the way, when it comes to the Cup, FIFA doesn't pay attention to home field advantage, only BS posters and columnists looking for excuses/support.

Only an American would think that home-field support is BS.

Originally posted by Qdog
By the way, the reason Ireland and Polish clubs don't make it to the Champions League is because they don't win in the UEFA competitions they compete in. When they start winning, they will get more slots. That's being objective.

Oh give it up! You wouldn't be complaing if your teams didn't make it in. Re-name the Champions League "The Rich Boys League".

The only reason you Americans want another spot is for yourselves. You want to cover you @$$es the enxt time you screw up.