Matchday 2: Werder Bremen - Schalke 04 23.08.08 3:30 PM CET [R]

[willy_svw]

Baumann has to be replaced.
Schaaf should let Özil play in left midfield and Jensen as a defensive midfielder.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

It definitely was a much better match than the Bielefeld match, but we still make the same silly mistakes that cost us so often in the last few years. Another match we should have won, as explained in detail earlier.

Yes, same mistakes as always as you also wrote before.

But i am more optimistic, Diego comes back from the Olympics
and Pizarro will be kicking a** and Özil is also on a good way.

[Rust_In_Peace]

Baumann has to be replaced.
Schaaf should let Özil play in left midfield and Jensen as a defensive midfielder.



:rolleyes:

[Equilibrium]

Leben, I have to disagree with you, but you also seem way too biased. Wiese has the best reflexes, and Adler maybe is the only one as good as him at that department? :D I was having second thoughts of ending the conversation as soon as you put a ridiculous statement like that. Neuer has much better reflexes as well as being a much better goalie. This has nothing to do with media or highlight videos, this is me watching Wiese and thinking he's an decent keeper, nothing more. It's true Neuer made mistakes, Lehmann has also pointed out on your second year after you shine, it's the most difficult season for a goalkeeper. Neuer did indeed make quite a few mistakes in the first half of the season since he's only 22 and because of that goalie problem Lehmann stated, yet he turned it up 2nd half of the season. Even though he did stupid mistakes in some games, he was great in others. Rost, Adler, Neuer, Enke, Lehmann are all better than him. Enke and Rost are old though, so they could possibly start fading sooner rather than later.

I find it laughable how highly you rate Wiese, there is also a good reason why he still hasn't touched the national team. And it's not because he has a big mouth, Kahn and Lehmann had it too and played quite a bit. It's because he isn't good enough and will probably never be. You keep using excuses or used and tired interpretations of why I think he is not good enough, I'm not the media nor someone who only watched BL highlights every weekend, I watch the games and see the mistakes.

As for Baumann, please don't tell that because he isn't flashy, he's not good. Hargreaves, our ghost player for Bayern, is a world class DM that you hardly see in the game, yet me and others notice what he can do and how well he does it. Sometimes Baumann fades out of games and doesn't stomp his authority like he should. His positioning is not as great as you guys make it out. He may have a great personality, then he could be used on the bench to motivate or off the pitch. ;)

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

Then our opinions obviously differ in key points. You're saying Wieses reflexes aren't worth mentioning. I disagree. You're saying Baumanns positioning isn't all that good. I say it's one of his strengths.
Maybe you like statistics? Baumann's last seasons average kicker-grade was 3.48. Wiese's was 3.06 and thus for example slightly higher than Neuer's. Both are pretty decent numbers.
But other than that I really can't argue anymore without repeating myself. But let me ask you this question: Why in the world does Schaaf keep them in the team when they're such liabilities?

[Equilibrium]

Then our opinions obviously differ in key points. You're saying Wieses reflexes aren't worth mentioning. I disagree.

Now now, no need to put words in my mouth. ;) I just laughed when you said his reflexes are the best and maybe only Adler was on par with him. He has good reflexes, but both Adler and Neuer murder him in this department because both are more talented than him in this department. Neuer due to inexperience and what I already wrote (what Lehmann said) in the first half of last season messed up a lot. You can look at Kicker ratings and use that as a valuation. It's all up to you, we differ in opinions for sure.


Why in the world does Schaaf keep them in the team when they're such liabilities?

I think you should ask him because I don't work for him. I don't really think coaches are perfect, your coach definitely is no exception.

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

Ok so I forgot to mention that Neuers reflexes are pretty good also. But Adler and Neuer "murder" Wiese in the reflex department? Are you kidding me? I know you'd like to believe that but it's simply not true.
Watch theses videos and double check your assessment on the "murder" issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSh9N7QIgKk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F50VUHdzhL8



I think you should ask him because I don't work for him. I don't really think coaches are perfect, your coach definitely is no exception.

No I'm asking you. Let's assume that he knows more about the game than you and I (of that I'm pretty sure). There must be something about those players that keep them in the starting lineup on a regular basis for years now. I think it's because of their attributes which I pointed out. You're basically saying it's because of Schaaf doesn't know what he's doing. What's more likely?

[Equilibrium]

No offense, but your coach is not great. He is good, but looking at his tactics, I only laugh most of the time when Bremen fail. Think that your coach can do no wrong, I see these clear weaknesses and you disagree.

By the way, I watched the videos and they didn't change my mind.

[hackespitze123]

No offence, but you are talking nonsense. If you consider our financial situation, compared to other Bundesliga top clubs, both Schaaf and Allofs have been doing an excellent job for years. Schaaf most definitely is one of the very best coaches in the league, and well respected not just in Germany, but abroad also.

Nobody is perfect, but most Bundesliga clubs wished they had a coach like him.

[Equilibrium]

His tactic is to attack like a mad man, which is why the team gets embarrassed at times in Champions League or loses when they shouldn't, the coach has been a major reason for this fault. I would personally give more credit to Allofs for the transfers. Most Bundesliga clubs should wish they had a coach like him since he is coaching for one of the best teams in Germany. He's a decent to good coach, though I would not put him as great.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

To find and buy a talent is one thing, to integrate the player
into club and team and constantly improve his skills is another.

KATS work well as a team. They fit to Werder.

[Projekt4]

No offence, but you are talking nonsense. If you consider our financial situation, compared to other Bundesliga top clubs, both Schaaf and Allofs have been doing an excellent job for years.

Your financial situation??? You have been earning CL money for many years now and so far you didn't have a stadium debt or other debts relating to the late 1990s/early 2000s bonanza.

I wonder what happened to this year's CL income btw, I thought Allofs was aiming to "think bigger" in terms of player investment this summer.

[sting-ray]

His tactic is to attack like a mad man, which is why the team gets embarrassed at times in Champions League or loses when they shouldn't, the coach has been a major reason for this fault. I would personally give more credit to Allofs for the transfers. Most Bundesliga clubs should wish they had a coach like him since he is coaching for one of the best teams in Germany. He's a decent to good coach, though I would not put him as great.

I'm very curious.... How do we get embarassed? against Lyon in 1/8 finals? in our first CL season? After beating spanish champions Valencia?

Are you talking about us beating Juve, Chelsea, Real Madrid? We beat these teams playing OUR style that you call "mad man" attack. What i would call embarassing is to lose 4:0 to Zenit in the Uefa Cup with all your "stars". There is nothing embarassing about playing the most exciting football in Germany. I also don't like to call matches embarassing.

You like to rip wiese.. Have you seen how many times the defense leaves him alone or gives 11m penalties? Do you bother to watch other BL matches? or like some typical Bayern Fans you just watch highlights? Me and i know many other Werder fans have full trust in Tim Wiese. There is no argument with Adler and Neuer.. they are still young, we will see. Kicker rates Wiese high. This is what the media does they get excited for young talents... here is a quiz question: do you remember not too many years ago Wiese and Weidenfeller were the ones in that position? Are you going to rip on Weidenfeller too?


I also want to make a comment on our finances. Yes we are much richer now than 7 years ago, but CL doesn't give unlimited money and players like Diego don't play for free. Our marketing is not as big as HIV or Schalke or Bayern, Our stadium is small compared to Schalke, HIV, Bayern; here you can put Leverkusen but they have other ways to get money. These are all millions of Euros that we've been missing. Slowly these will grow for us too hopefully. Also the Sponsors of Schalke and Bayern are crazy especially with Gazprom now. Allofs will not throw away money to fill the roster.

[Equilibrium]

I'm very curious.... How do we get embarassed? against Lyon in 1/8 finals? in our first CL season? After beating spanish champions Valencia?

Actually against Lyon you did get embarrased 7-2 or a scoreline similar to it.

Now when you make an argument, I'd like for you to actually make points instead of adding ? to every sentence, there is no point in doing so. I don't like to rip on anyone, I already told you I don't care about him or Bremen, though I do want you guys to progress further in Champions League.

For me, a team like Bremen can do better than Wiese. Like I have already said, he hasn't been called in the national team for a good reason. I really don't care how media may hype someone, I never once rated Wiese like Adler or Neuer. I do think Neuer may actually be more talented than Adler, just not mature as much. Yet another Bremen fan assumes that I watch highlights of matches, is this necessary in trying to get your point across? I already stated once I do watch a hell lot of games, so there no reason to bring back a pointless, baseless statement such as this. Because others may do such a thing, I am not them and they are not like me.

Bayern did get embarrassed by Zenit, though the topic was about Bremen. Your style is at times very interesting and unique. However, it has shown so far it simply doesn't work well in Europe. I know you have beat some teams, but I think of Bremen higher than they are currently doing at the moment and expect them to be stronger in this competition. Wiese and your DM for me are big weaknesses, I think getting a 3rd CB and a class LB could be good for you guys, though the latter 2 problems are not as big in my opinon as the first two.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

Your financial situation??? You have been earning CL money for many years now and so far you didn't have a stadium debt or other debts relating to the late 1990s/early 2000s bonanza.


As 'sting-ray' already mentioned other clubs have far bigger stadiums,
bigger investments from companies and other stuff. Furthermore
Werder acts less less risky than other clubs and that´s why we didn´t
buy success at the end of the 90s on debts.


I wonder what happened to this year's CL income btw, I thought Allofs was aiming to "think bigger" in terms of player investment this summer.

Well, the players, that reach CL league every year wants to be paid.

Partwise this year CL income got invested in extending
the contracts of key players. Money was saved for an
interesting player, but now we got him on loan. Perfect.

[Rust_In_Peace]

Don't forget the 60 or so million we are paying for the renovations at the Weser.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

Don't forget the 60 or so million we are paying for the renovations at the Weser.

Good point, but the 60 millions € for the stadium renovations
should not (according to Werder management) affect the transfer policy.