USA-Netherlands post-game discussion [R]

[Hachiko]

This is for postgame discussion of the USA vs. the Netherlands in Group B play. Keep it clean, as always.

Personally I thought we would deliver some payback after their 4 x 100 women's freestyle relay team one-upped us at the pool. The onus is on us to bounce back against Nigeria.

[CSURam FC]

From the looks of it, Nowak found a way to get these guys to show up today. He also over-analyzed part of hit strategy. I think he is more interested in making himself look good than us bringing home a tourney like this.

[vancity eagle]

I was hoping to congradulate you guys on a win and advancement to the 2nd round, but stuart Holden is a fuc$ing idiot. First he selfishly takes a shot when hes got 2 guys to square the ball to to virtually knock the dutch out the tournament, then his stupid foul.

US was easily the better team, but the dutch are so overrated, they play with absolutely no heart, or maybee they just cant deal with the conditions. They have been poor and outplayed in their last 3 matches going back to the ING cup. You will have a much tougher game against Nigeria believe me. They will not just sit back and let you control the match, I dont know if you saw our Japan game, but they are starting to fire on all cylinders. Having said that, US is improving with every game as well. Nigeria needs the win, with a tie likely not to be good enough, so I personally am a little worried. If u had won, it would be smooth sailing. US would have likely rested many players and I would really fancy our chances there

[Maruti]

USA will be playing without Freddy Adu and Micheal Bradley... That been said the defensive capabilties of Nigeria will be hit with Onyekachi Apam and Olubayo Adefemi pausing. That means that the Nigerian coach has no reserve defenders and James Monday and Efe Ambrose will be forced to substitute (unless Siasia goes for .

USA might be much weaker but Nigeria has a headache in setting up defense, with having only 4 defensive players to chose from. Fortunately James Monday is a central defender to fill in for Apam, whilst Efe Ambrose is a right defender that can fit in for Adefemi. Nonetheless boh players were great so far, albeit Adeleye has been the backbone of the defense.

I would have to say that based on the two matches played Nigeria will be favourites to win against a weakened USA side.

[ATLfirefan]

I don't get why people are criticizing Nowak when it was the players fault for not winning. Adu and Bradley definitely hurt their team, Adu in particular, and Holden just seemed gassed. Yes, you could have subbed Szetela for Holden, but the lead was lost thanks to Freddy's yellow card.

I think that people underestimate the McBride/Altidore pairing. I think that a fresh McBride would do wonders for Altidore. MB having to sit will give Benny Feilhaber a chance to hopefully perform as well as he did a little more than a year ago against Mexico or Szetela a chance to see significant action and hopefully repeat his performance in the U-21 WC. I definitely think that not having Adu hurts the US more than MB because we have a plethora of central mids to fill in that role.

[kindred]

so, if you are Nowak, do you sit back and play for a draw, or try to simulate the last 2/3 of today's match? Edu wasn't quite so impressive today in back, so do you dare push him up and slot Ianni in as starter? with Bradley out, more control in the midfield is needed, but would you rather leave Edu in place and fill the whole with Feilhaber? it would seem that Altidore must play the full 90 with the absence of Adu; do you trust Jozy to provide enough pressure on his own, and shift to a one-forward attack? if not, can McBride play significant minutes for the third time in a week?

Nowak has some difficult choices to make. and given the need is only to tie, i wouldn't be surprised to see a defensive formation at the start. and if the game is still tied by mid-2nd half, or if the U.S. somehow has secured a lead, i would expect a fully defensive posture (e.g. some sort of 4-5-1 or 4-3-2-1 with Jozy on top and McBride replaced).

one thing for certain: the team will have to be more disciplined. no more stupid yellows or late free kicks.

-wkw

[Kevin8833]

----------------Guzan------------------
Wynne----Edu(C)----Parkhurst----Orozco
----------Szetella----Feilhaber----------
Davies--------------------------Mccarty
----------------Holden----------------
----------------Altidore----------------

-Stay in the same formation, Holden at the CAM to keep things tight in the midfield while still making good decisions in possessiona and he is a good finisher as well. Keep the same back four plus Guzan. Altidore for Mcbride to have more of a dynamic scoring threat who doesn't depend on service. Davies and Mccarty provide fresh legs to the wings to keep up with the Nigerian's, Mccarty gives good defense and possession to help alongside Orozco, can hold the ball and let Orozco overlap. Wynne has been great, and him and Davies could be a terror down the flank together.

Sub 1- Kljestan for Holden at the half, the second half should be a bit more open for Kljestan to be creative and do his thing.
Sub 2- ??
Sub 3- ??

[ballance]

Somebody please explain why Adu was subbed from the game? I knew as soon as Novak made this change it was bad news for the USA. If you asked me, it is leftover stuff from DC United.

[zico82]

Couldn't believe Holden NOT knocking the ball square to clinch the game. Would have been an easy tap-in. Overall, he played a great game but I hope Nowak chewed his a$$ out for that one unbelievably dumb play.

[FW__]

So many things happened in the last 10 minutes. Holden not passing for a 3-1 lead. Nowak subbing Adu. Nowak not using 3rd sub to waste more time and / or get McBride out of the match. Sacha not booting the ball downfield before Holden's foul. Holden's foul.

For Nigeria, the US needs to play the way they played from the 20th to 80th minutes which will be hard without Adu. If the US plays for a tie they'll lose.

As for formation. Obviously Jozy starts but I wouldn't go and make so many changes. I'd bring in Benny and hope he can control the midfield. I think the rest can stay the same. Rogers has not played great but once he got back on the right side of the field (after the Dutch scored their 1st goal) he played better.

[ballance]

Such a positive showing for the US overall with the exception of the slow start. We showed many good things: combination play, a willingness to take players on, and unfortunately, in the end, our immaturity to close the game. Don't think the wall should be jumping.

[leny665]

[QUOTE=ATLfirefan;15394234]I don't get why people are criticizing Nowak when it was the players fault for not winning.

Nowak started Rogers at right midfield when he plays Left midfield. Didn't he pick this team? Shouldn't he know what positions they play? Rogers looked terrible at the start on the right.

I thought Adu, and Wynne played very well and Holden, although he made a mistake on the foul, he is a hard worker and he can make things happed. I would have liked to see Benny get a little more time, but he's not going to take time away from Bradley (who plays complete games regardless of how poor he's playing).

[Wessoman]

USA will be playing without Freddy Adu and Micheal Bradley... That been said the defensive capabilties of Nigeria will be hit with Onyekachi Apam and Olubayo Adefemi pausing. That means that the Nigerian coach has no reserve defenders and James Monday and Efe Ambrose will be forced to substitute (unless Siasia goes for .

USA might be much weaker but Nigeria has a headache in setting up defense, with having only 4 defensive players to chose from. Fortunately James Monday is a central defender to fill in for Apam, whilst Efe Ambrose is a right defender that can fit in for Adefemi. Nonetheless boh players were great so far, albeit Adeleye has been the backbone of the defense.

I would have to say that based on the two matches played Nigeria will be favourites to win against a weakened USA side.


Well, the USA is more weakened than Nigeria, but I wouldn't say that it's definite. Remember, the US is weakened but have great mids in Maurice Edu and Danny Szetela. Of course, the US would have to play Ianni in the back instead of Edu, and he is not fast despite his good distribution. (This is where the losses of Spector, Sturgis, and the non-commital of Subotic really hurts the US!) But I feel very comfortable with Feilhaber, Szetela, and Edu in the mid. Even if Edu doesn't play mid, we still have options with Rogers on the wing. After all, the US played most of her qualifiers without Adu, Bradley, Szetela OR Feilhaber, and managed to get to the Olympics.

That said, GO JAPAN. If Japan play for pride and beat Holland, both Nigeria and the US will (Rightfully) go through.

[AFCA]

That would be justice, although I must say that in spite of the half hearted effort, we played 20 minutes of good football.

I still feel that is the difference between the US and the NL, and it may very well see us through at the expense of the US or Nigeria.

Pherhaps our boys would rather go home and play their Playstations? Kudos to the US for hanging in there and almost clinching the win.

[Wessoman]

Nowak started Rogers at right midfield when he plays Left midfield. Didn't he pick this team? Shouldn't he know what positions they play? Rogers looked terrible at the start on the right.

I thought Adu, and Wynne played very well and Holden, although he made a mistake on the foul, he is a hard worker and he can make things happed. I would have liked to see Benny get a little more time, but he's not going to take time away from Bradley (who plays complete games regardless of how poor he's playing).

Rogers DID look terrible on the right, but I don't think Nowak made a mistake there. Against Japan, Rogers and Orozco were simply NOT on the same page. Nowak must have started Rogers on the right because he seemed to have a better rapport with Wynne. But Rogers was ineffective, and swapped him to his natural position. That was a gamble. Had Orozco not stepped his game up, and the communication problems from the Japan game continued, the US would have, quite frankly, lost this match. But Orozco did communicate with Rogers well this time, which effectively led to the US dominating the flanks.

Pretty much the moral was-Nowak had 3 points, he was playing it safe. When Holland went up, Nowak decided, "If we're behind, let's gamble anyways". That gamble paid off, and would have SERIOUSLY paid off if we held on to win.

As for Holden, Nowak blew the last sub, but stupidly we were ahead and he played it safe. At the end, Holden missed an open Kljestan and that bad tackle was the worst play of the game. It was clear that Holden was tiring and beggining to lose his focus. Nowak played it safe by putting 6 in the area, and pooching the ball out or dribbling it needlessly into the corner, to which you need a holder like Holden on the field. The gamble would have been to take Holden out at minute 85 for Ianni, put 5 in the back, and BUNKER. Yes, the US hates to play Catenaccio, but it's what we should have done- Play negative ball to preserve the win. Another gamble would be to sub Holden for Davies, and simply charge forward for a third. Of course, that would leave the US really exposed. Furthermore, that last sub alone would have burned a minute off of the clock.

What I have learned is: Nowak plays it safer than Bob Bradley when he's ahead and outplaying the competition, and only takes gutsy risks when he is behind. He needs to take risks to preserve results as well. He played it safe in the last 10 minutes--By that, we almost lost a result to Japan, and we did lose a big result to Holland.

[Wessoman]

That would be justice, although I must say that in spite of the half hearted effort, we played 20 minutes of good football.

I still feel that is the difference between the US and the NL, and it may very well see us through at the expense of the US or Nigeria.

Pherhaps our boys would rather go home and play their Playstations? Kudos to the US for hanging in there and almost clinching the win.

AFCA, don't sell the Dutch so short, you did play some sparkling football and I remember at minute 20 how most of the mates I was watching the game with seemed to think it was over for the USA.

From where I see it, the Dutch came in overconfident. They won the European youth championships and got a result against the other group favorite, Nigeria. After the Oranje scored, they really seemed to take their foot off of the gas, and let the US creep in. When Nowak made some adjustments, by minute 40 the Netherlands were playing scared. It wasn't until the experience of Makaay and Sibon came in that the Dutch stopped being shell-shocked and began to settle.
If I was Foppe I would pretend that the second Dutch goal never happened and lay down the law on his players. I would remind him that winning the U21's mean nothing because this is a whole new tournament, and nothing is proven until a medal hangs around your neck. Marcellis and DeGuzman in particular didn't play to their potential, and Drenthe was simply out classed by "Marvellous" Wynne. Holland need to learn to NEVER take your foot off of your opponent's neck.

[johan neeskens]

Didn't I tell you before the tournament started that it wouldn't be pretty from the Dutch. They don't lose though, even when they're rubbish.

[johan neeskens]

If I was Foppe I would pretend that the second Dutch goal never happened and lay down the law on his players. I would remind him that winning the U21's mean nothing because this is a whole new tournament, and nothing is proven until a medal hangs around your neck. Marcellis and DeGuzman in particular didn't play to their potential, and Drenthe was simply out classed by "Marvellous" Wynne. Holland need to learn to NEVER take your foot off of your opponent's neck.

Teehee you've obviously never heard Foppe being interviewed post-match. He's always slagging them off.

I still think Holland will fairly easily make it into the next round. That's what this generation of Dutch players do, they battle and win.

[AFCA]

Foppe hasn't been looking happy lately, no :D

@ Wessoman: I just can't stand that half-assed crap. Losing is fine, tying a game is fine... But you have to give all you've got. Wether they failed to so in preparation or in the game doesn't matter to me.

Work, work, work. That is what almost won you guys the game (combined with not all too bad football of course)