Most Complete Team in the World?

[MadridForever]

Originally posted by nicephoras
I wasn't aware this was the "Real Madrid rules" thread. Real is a good team. But unless I'm mistaken, they did NOT win the CL last year. In fact, they barely scraped through the second group phase. If Milan had fielded their starting 11, Real may not have even made it past that stage.

It isn't a thread about "Real Madrid rules", it is a thread about 'complete teams' and what should be a 'complete team'. I have spoke about that in all my posts and i have used as example Real Madrid because is the team that i know best.


"No one has comparable firepower to Real Madrid." Uh, what? Milan is certainly comparable - Pirlo, Rui Costa, Seedorf, Rivaldo, Sheva, Pippo, Kaka, Serginho - I wasn't aware they were bad offensive players. Inter is loaded this year, especially now that they have wingers: they just obliterated Arsenal at Highbury without Vieri or Recoba. Ouch.
Is Real better than them up front - sure, somewhat. But Milan's defense is light years ahead of Real's. As is Juve's, and Inter's. (Who's isn't?) Your starting CB in a CL game this year was playing for Leeds Utd. on a loan deal last year. Wow, what depth!


One of the reason of why i'm so critic with the italian big teams is that they have great players, but THEY DON'T USE THEM!! or they don't use them well. They could play a lot of better soccer but the give a total prefecence to the defense. If you have follow the soccer in the last years you will have listened many times, even of players playing in italy, that for the offensive midfielders and forwards is boring play in italy, that is a lot of more fun play in England or Spain, for example.

That the reason of why many offensive players like Zidane, Ronaldo, Henry, etc have left italy, or other greats players like VanNistelroy, Aimar, Ronaldinho, Beckham, etc haven't gone to Italy because it is lot of more fun for them play outside italy. And almost all of them would have earn similar or more money in italy.

That the reason of why i think the italian teams shouldn't been taken as reference of 'Complete teams'. I think that it is bad for soccer, because like i said before i think that i neutral supporter prefers to see a offensive game, over a defensive game. But it's just my opinion.

As i said before for me a complete team must be a team whose combination of players and style of play give the best results. And if the result is a soccer very good to watch, a lot of better.



P.S. The reason all the "complete" teams seem to be Italian is that - shock! - they're the ones who did well last year. I certainly wouldn't call Lazio a complete team, even though I'm a fan and they're Italian.
P.P.S. To the poster who said Real has a habit of scoring in all their games - not quite true....... I seem to recall them netting a goose egg against Milan

One of the big defenses of the italian soccer, and i'm speaking in general terms, is the results. But we have seen in the last years and other times, that with a soccer more fun to play and to watch you can have the same or better results.


And i must say that i liked very much the play of Milan in the begining of the last season, but after two bad results they returned to a more conservative style of play, because they wasn't really believing in what they was doing.

[AFCA]

Milan seems quite complete and balanced to me.

But so do several teams.

[afgrijselijkheid]

int'l: france

club: milan or bayern

[aloisius]

Originally posted by Luther_Gabriel
How can you say that Milan are not that deep? They have about 8 top notch defenders: Nesta, Kaladze, Simic, Cafu, Laurson, Roque Jr., Costacurta and the 37 year old right-footed central defender that can also play left back when necessary Paolo Maldini, one of the greatest defenders of all-time and still one of the best in the world, even at his current age.

Chelsea is now stronger and more balanced? I think not. Desailly, Gallas, Bridge, and Johnson are a good back four, but not on the same level as Milan's starters. And they do not have defensive depth like Milan does.
I meant Costacurta when I was referring to a 37 year old… You do realize Maldini is left-footed.

I know Maldini played LB v. Ajax, but it was Costacurta who usually deputized Kaladze last season. Just wondering, why didn’t they play Pancaro if they signed him as a back-up LB?
I just think Chelsea now have the strongest group of players in the world. If that means titles is still to be seen.
We can compare them position by position if you wish.

BTW, Maldini is a true all-time great, as well as one of the best players at his position at the moment.

[MadridForLife]

What are you talking about "I wasn't aware this was a Real Madrid rules thread." No one is saying Madrid are the most complete team and if they do they are stupid. Even as a Madrid fan I can say that. Although because of their firepower they could easily be the best team in the world.

Also what is up w/ nicephoras. How can you think Rivaldo, Rui Costa, Sheva, Inzaghi, Pirlo, Seedorf, Kaka, and Serginho is comparable to Becks, Figo, Zidane, Raul, and Ronaldo??? There is no comparable attack in the world. Don't misunderstand I'm not saying that Milan's offense sucks, it is amazing, but is not comparable to Madrid.

As I posted earlier the most complete team is probably one of the Northern Italian trio.

[Albion + England]

Originally posted by Greddy
Man U's big weakness is depth. If Ruud goes down, the team falls apart. When scholes goes down, the team lacks almost all cohesion. Even the players admitted that they where the weakest of the 8 teams left in the Champions league last year.
I'd agree with you on that point but i was talking about the team not the squad, which i presumed the thread to be about, but if it is about the squad then you are right about the weakness being depth, Milan and Chelsea have to be the top two? Utd and Real are possibly the weakest depth-wise out of all the major European teams.

[Albion + England]

Nesta is a good player but i think he's overrated, he gets caught out easily at times.

[junjunforever]

as much as i would hate to admit, italy. best players for every position who are dedicated to win.

[Albion + England]

I think every player in history has been dedicated to win - except for Bruce Grobelaar.

[Sildegil]

France NT is certainly the most complete team in the world.

France have 6 players: Zidane, Henry, Makelele, Thuram, Vieira, Pires, who are simply the best in the world at their position.

4 players who acan easely be considered as one of the 5 or 10 best in the world at their position: Lizarazu, Trezeguet, Desailly, Sylvestre (or Gallas or Mexes).

1 goalkeeper who, whatever its club's trouble, has always been great with his NT: Barthez.

A very solid bench: Gallas, Mexes, Sagnol, Dacourt, Wiltord, Cissé, etc ...

+ several players who can still be used in NT: Candela, Anelka, Lamouchi, Robert, etc ...

[giggs88]

Originally posted by Sildegil
France NT is certainly the most complete team in the world.

France have 6 players: Zidane, Henry, Makelele, Thuram, Vieira, Pires, who are simply the best in the world at their position.

4 players who acan easely be considered as one of the 5 or 10 best in the world at their position: Lizarazu, Trezeguet, Desailly, Sylvestre (or Gallas or Mexes).

1 goalkeeper who, whatever its club's trouble, has always been great with his NT: Barthez.

A very solid bench: Gallas, Mexes, Sagnol, Dacourt, Wiltord, Cissé, etc ...

+ several players who can still be used in NT: Candela, Anelka, Lamouchi, Robert, etc ...

france is most complete team in the world.

[gento]

Originally posted by Sildegil
France have 6 players: Zidane, Henry, Makelele, Thuram, Vieira, Pires, who are simply the best in the world at their position.

LOL.

[Jawz10]

Of the players sildegil named only Zidane can reasonably be called the very best at his position.

[Jawz10]

Originally posted by MadridForever
One of the big defenses of the italian soccer, and i'm speaking in general terms, is the results. But we have seen in the last years and other times, that with a soccer more fun to play and to watch you can have the same or better results. I totally agree, you can play good and attractive ( the two are not neccessarily linked )soccer and win at the same time. Italian clubs in the 90s played very well and won, Real played very well from 99 through now and have won. But, the line has been crossed and now many clubs are fantastic going foward when everything is going their way, but can be complete crap when the chips are down ( Arsenal and Real 2002 I'm looking your way. . .). It took teams like Milan and Juventus, employing lots of attacking players at once but asking them to do the dirty work as well to find this out. Its all about balance. Even when Real had Karanka and Campo in the backline they had RC always getting back, Hierro was still a rock and Redondo ( a minor diety ) doing the business at back.

Who will find the right balance this year? Real WILL find a way to keep the goals out. Juventus will hit their stride. Milan will eventually have to revert back to the side of early last year to get results and Manchester United will always be able to turn it up a notch when it counts.

[junjunforever]

Originally posted by Albion + England
I think every player in history has been dedicated to win - except for Bruce Grobelaar.


ask dutch players. they sure seemed not too excited about winning.

[Sildegil]

Originally posted by Jawz10
Of the players sildegil named only Zidane can reasonably be called the very best at his position.

Go ahead, give name.

Better RB than Thuram? Better Defensive mid than Vieira and Makelele?

Your answer is a simple negation, without any arguement. Talk when u have some.

[giggs88]

Originally posted by gento
LOL.

pires???? is a good player. at his position, he is not the best.

[Jawz10]

Originally posted by Sildegil
Go ahead, give name.

Better RB than Thuram? Better Defensive mid than Vieira and Makelele?

Your answer is a simple negation, without any arguement. Talk when u have some. Their are lots of players who are arguably as good as Thuram at defense, Viera and Makelele in midfield and Henry up front. For you to say they are "simply the best" is mere hyperbole, as if there were no equals or peers at all. I'll name some.

Puyol, Zanetti are as good as Thuram.

Davids, Van Bommel, and Emerson are all as good as Viera or Makelele, the latter not even being THAT good. He has no offensive qualities, even Gattuso can do what he does.

Pires hasn't been the same since his injury, nice try though. I'd name Vicente, Van Der Meyde, Figo, Beckham and a host of other wide players as his equal if not better.

Van Nistelrooy, Vieri, Shevchenko, Raul, Ronaldo are all as good if not better than Henry.

Don't mistake your weak, subjective opinions for fact.

Originally posted by Dark Savante
no italian team can or have 'handed man u their ass' since the late 90's when man u got schooled by juve..since then man u are easily the foil/equal to italian football's style.

Duly noted. Man U have had the better or Italian sides in the last five years, with the exception being Lazio in 99? Ever since Man U came from two nil down versus Juventus in 98 they’ve have Juve’s number.

[nicephoras]

Originally posted by MadridForLife
What are you talking about "I wasn't aware this was a Real Madrid rules thread." No one is saying Madrid are the most complete team and if they do they are stupid. Even as a Madrid fan I can say that. Although because of their firepower they could easily be the best team in the world.

Look at the posts in front of yours. The Madrid fans keep changing the topic to "we may not be the most complete, but we're the best" thread. You're entitled to your opinion, I suppose.


Originally posted by MadridForLife
Also what is up w/ nicephoras.

What's up with me? I'm good, thanks. Watched Chelsea demolish the Wolves, and Ohio State survive Bowling Green. But back to the topic.

Originally posted by MadridForLife
How can you think Rivaldo, Rui Costa, Sheva, Inzaghi, Pirlo, Seedorf, Kaka, and Serginho is comparable to Becks, Figo, Zidane, Raul, and Ronaldo??? There is no comparable attack in the world. Don't misunderstand I'm not saying that Milan's offense sucks, it is amazing, but is not comparable to Madrid.


Of course its COMPARABLE. Becks isn't THAT good. (He is a good player, but he's no offensive juggernaut.) Figo is on the downside of his career. Zidane is unmatched, yes. But Ronaldo? I'd probably take Sheva over him right now. Raul is one of my favorite players, actually. Are Real's midfield/forwards better? Sure. But is it light years ahead of Milan? No, of course not! Real is better, but Milan isn't that far behind.


[i]As I posted earlier the most complete team is probably one of the Northern Italian trio. [/B]

Well then, we're in complete agreement.

[nicephoras]

Originally posted by Sildegil
France NT is certainly the most complete team in the world.

France have 6 players: Zidane, Henry, Makelele, Thuram, Vieira, Pires, who are simply the best in the world at their position.

Well, I was with you for a bit there.......... but that's simply absurd.
Zidane - I agree.
Henry - Vieri, Ruud, Sheva, Mutu (as you'll soon see), Raul all have a good claim.
Makelele - good, but not that good.
Thuram - Puyol and Zanetti, as someone has already mentioned. Jawz, I believe.
Pires - that must be a joke. His form since his injury has been disappointing. [/B][/QUOTE]


Originally posted by Sildegil
4 players who acan easely be considered as one of the 5 or 10 best in the world at their position: Lizarazu, Trezeguet, Desailly, Sylvestre (or Gallas or Mexes).

Oh, what NONSENSE! Desailly is getting up in age, (although I agree on Gallas), while Silvestre has no business in that sentence. Nor does Trez, who's very overrated. [/B][/QUOTE]


Originally posted by Sildegil
1 goalkeeper who, whatever its club's trouble, has always been great with his NT: Barthez.

Who's always been prone to stunning gaffs.

Originally posted by Sildegil
A very solid bench: Gallas, Mexes, Sagnol, Dacourt, Wiltord, Cissé, etc ...

Dacourt has failed to impress, Sagnol is no longer that good, Wiltord is crap, as Japorea showed, and Cisse has yet to play well for France. Mexes is very good.

The funny thing is that I agree with you, but you are going to draw a lot of heat with rants like that. France has a phenomenal team, but its not as good as you make it out to be. (I also think they need to find a good partner for Henry.)


Originally posted by Jawz10

Davids, Van Bommel, and Emerson are all as good as Viera or Makelele, the latter not even being THAT good. He has no offensive qualities, even Gattuso can do what he does.

I agreed with the rest of your post, but I have to disagree with you there. Makelele is a phenomenal player. He hasn't shown off his offensive skills because he hasn't needed to - with Real or France. However, he's a real rock in the middle, and actually has a good touch - I just saw him in action against the Wolves, and he had a phenomenal game. Good passer. He's much better than Gattuso.
Also, Davids has jumped the shark, while Van Bommel just isn't that good.