SOMETHING Isn't Adding Up....

[Martin Daoust]

And its the Club's finances - or what they are being used for and why.

I STILL think we ALL agree that Arsenal Football Club can genuinely compete for and win silverware regularly and operate with a profit as they do so, and that is a positive thing - it SHOULD be our goal - whether some will admit that or not.

Let me make my postion clear - I am not at all against the Board making money on its investment in Arsenal Football Club. As I said previously:

"I have NEVER said the Board should never be able to take dividends or make a return on its investment - though many other Gooners including ironically many who deeply oppose my assessment of things currently would do so. I'm not Pollyanna or a member of the Socialist Workers Party. It is THEIR money after all."

What I will say is:

"However the Board's stated intention in declaring their intentions to build a new stadium was to make more money available to strengthen the football team then was being made available at the time, and their publically stated policy now is for the profits to first go back into the football team as needed to improve the football team. At no time have dividends ever been stated as any part of why we went forward with this project."

And here is that stated policy as set out in the last Directors report:

“Despite the income and profits which we can expect to derive from the new Premier League TV contracts and from the Club's operations at Emirates Stadium, shareholders should not necessarily expect future years' accounts to report growing profits and ever increasing cash balances. This is because the Board continues to believe that the best long term policy for the Club is to re-invest profits and cash back into the development of the team. Accordingly, our business plans and budgets are prepared with a clear objective of making available to the manager the maximum possible funds for the development of the playing squad. We strongly believe that pursuing this policy of continual investment in the Club's playing staff will provide the best platform for a virtuous circle of continued on-field success at the highest level and, consequently, growth in the Club's support and revenues in the long term.”

As I said the earlier my concern is:

That clearly is not the case however at this time, and why I take such strong objection with even the discussion of taking dividends when it is clear we are not at that stage and it is highly unlikely we will be by summer's end. The Board should NEVER hold back a single penny to increase their own wealth. No board ever should...."

Again that is not to say we should be spending unlimited amounts of money at any time or certainly with any regularity or that should necessarily have any negative impact on the Shareholders or the Board taking dividends:

I would go one step further here Rewinder - I would have no problem if the club didn't spend a penny and the Board took dividends - provided the team was as strong as reasonably possible. I'll use the summer of 2003 example. The only addition that summer was Jens Lehmann (Jose came at the end of January) and yet I was perfectly satisfied because there were no truly significant departures and realistically a new No. 1 was the only pressing need we had for me (injuries could have altered that but not significantly really). Had the Board decided to take a dividend that summer despite spending what little they did I'd have had no complaint at all even before that amazing season started, such was the quality throughout that team and the squad as a whole. I'm not about spending money just because we can. I am about spending money we need to and in that instance as much(within reason) as we need to, or at least as much as we used to...

In nother words before 2004 clearly Mr. Wenger had more at his disposal to compete with, and was able to use it, and it showed in the results and achievements of those teams. The Board should be fully committed to making sure he still has that ability now and that should be their first priority at all times.

The question is is that their first priority now? Pleanty of Gooners and Gunners, including the Legendary Frank McLintock, have expressed doubts as to this over the past few years.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/07/27/frank-mclintock-arsenal-need-to-buy-big-for-success-115875-20673539/

And the reports confirmed by Ken Friar that the Arsenal Board are considering commencing taking dividends in 2010 despite evidence not all the available profits are NOT being re-invested in the football team only heightens the unease many Gooners are feeling now.

http://www.arsenalinsider.co.uk/arsenal-news/exclusive-a-signing-is-imminent-as-ast-meet-ken-friar-who-reveals-that-share-dividends-have-been-discussed/

So there we are right now - what is going on? Where is the money going and why? And why was the Emirates Stadium built?

[DaPrince84]

http://hl.is.lame.hu/funnies/tn_ban_plz.jpg

[Martin Daoust]

Denial doesn't change reality mate. Again you opened the thread don't open it. You afraid what I am saying might be true and just don't want to deal with it - that's all there is to it. So stay out then. If you can help think about it, maybe its not my fault - maybe just maybe you believe it even though you don't want to - which is the one thing you and Iwould have in common - I don't want to believe it either.

But that alone doesn't make it not true or unworthy of discussion as we ALLl have a stake in the leadership of the club acting in the team and the club's best interests, not one or the other or one over the other.

[Silock]

I wish someone other than Martin would post this. Not because I dislike Martin, but because people see his name on it and dismiss it out of hand.

He brings up some very valid points. Where is all the money going? lol It's obviously not being spent on transfers.

[DaPrince84]

Denial doesn't change reality mate. Again you opened the thread don't open it. You afraid what I am saying might be true and just don't want to deal with it - that's all there is to it. So stay out then. If you can help think about it, maybe its not my fault - maybe just maybe you believe it even though you don't want to - which is the one thing you and Iwould have in common - I don't want to believe it either.

But that alone doesn't make it not true or unworthy of discussion as we ALLl have a stake in the leadership of the club acting in the team and the club's best interests, not one or the other or one over the other.
you have said the SAME THING the whole summer... its boring... BORING

http://frecklescassie.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/bored-cat.jpg

[Martin Daoust]

I wish someone other than Martin would post this. Not because I dislike Martin, but because people see his name on it and dismiss it out of hand.

He brings up some very valid points. Where is all the money going? lol It's obviously not being spent on transfers.

I see your point, but the truth is they'd dismiss you or just about anyone else who did the same way - those who do that I mean. They just want to discuss this and they don't want anyone else discussing it.

All we who are concerned and want to discuss it seriously can do is keep doing so with those who are - on either side on the fence - willing to discuss it, or discuss amongst ourselves as they say. We just have to keep working to learn more even from one another about where the money is going and why, and keep our heads up - AND hope we are proven 100% WRONG in our doubts about the Current Board's leadership at some point sooner rather later...

[Martin Daoust]

you have said the SAME THING the whole summer... its boring... BORING

http://frecklescassie.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/bored-cat.jpg

Of course its easy to say that when you dismiss out-of-hand the first time you hear it - as I said before its all white noise to posters like you from the first time you hear it no matter what you are actually hearing - because you quit listening the first time you heard it...

Cute Cat BTW - cheers for that...

[voltman]

jfw!

[Rewinder]

We heard what you had to say about the board and the money for over 2 months already. Nothing is going to change no matter how many times you post your opinion on the board, so why not give it a rest already? All you are doing is annoying everyone, and even if you were making a valid point (which I don't think you are), its never going to be read as everyone is too pissed off at you, and skips over your posts if they haven't already ignored you.

Come to whatever conclusion you want about how ignorant we all are, and how right you happen to be, and be done with it or else you may find people asking have you yellow carded so you cannot start any more of these threads.

Nothing we say is going to change your beliefs, and nothing you say will change ours - there is no reason to keep posting the same shit over and over and over. It has literally been over 2 months already!

Since you seem to like cat pictures, here is another one for you:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_jmqW-WO5rvg/R1kJEHD5kAI/AAAAAAAAB88/uSvlGzTI1pM/s400/cut+that+shit+out+bitch.jpg

[ToBeAGooner]

I saw someone on another site refer to where all the money goes as The Arsenal Stadium Mystery.

I honestly dont even give a damn if we get money from the Bentley transfer because odds are its going to vanish and we wont ever see it spent.

[phishy]

And its the Club's finances - or what they are being used for and why.

I STILL think we ALL agree that Arsenal Football Club can genuinely compete for and win silverware regularly and operate with a profit as they do so, and that is a positive thing - it SHOULD be our goal - whether some will admit that or not.

Let me make my postion clear - I am not at all against the Board making money on its investment in Arsenal Football Club. As I said previously:

"I have NEVER said the Board should never be able to take dividends or make a return on its investment - though many other Gooners including ironically many who deeply oppose my assessment of things currently would do so. I'm not Pollyanna or a member of the Socialist Workers Party. It is THEIR money after all."

What I will say is:

"However the Board's stated intention in declaring their intentions to build a new stadium was to make more money available to strengthen the football team then was being made available at the time, and their publically stated policy now is for the profits to first go back into the football team as needed to improve the football team. At no time have dividends ever been stated as any part of why we went forward with this project."

And here is that stated policy as set out in the last Directors report:

“Despite the income and profits which we can expect to derive from the new Premier League TV contracts and from the Club's operations at Emirates Stadium, shareholders should not necessarily expect future years' accounts to report growing profits and ever increasing cash balances. This is because the Board continues to believe that the best long term policy for the Club is to re-invest profits and cash back into the development of the team. Accordingly, our business plans and budgets are prepared with a clear objective of making available to the manager the maximum possible funds for the development of the playing squad. We strongly believe that pursuing this policy of continual investment in the Club's playing staff will provide the best platform for a virtuous circle of continued on-field success at the highest level and, consequently, growth in the Club's support and revenues in the long term.”

As I said the earlier my concern is:

That clearly is not the case however at this time, and why I take such strong objection with even the discussion of taking dividends when it is clear we are not at that stage and it is highly unlikely we will be by summer's end. The Board should NEVER hold back a single penny to increase their own wealth. No board ever should...."

Again that is not to say we should be spending unlimited amounts of money at any time or certainly with any regularity or that should necessarily have any negative impact on the Shareholders or the Board taking dividends:

I would go one step further here Rewinder - I would have no problem if the club didn't spend a penny and the Board took dividends - provided the team was as strong as reasonably possible. I'll use the summer of 2003 example. The only addition that summer was Jens Lehmann (Jose came at the end of January) and yet I was perfectly satisfied because there were no truly significant departures and realistically a new No. 1 was the only pressing need we had for me (injuries could have altered that but not significantly really). Had the Board decided to take a dividend that summer despite spending what little they did I'd have had no complaint at all even before that amazing season started, such was the quality throughout that team and the squad as a whole. I'm not about spending money just because we can. I am about spending money we need to and in that instance as much(within reason) as we need to, or at least as much as we used to...

In nother words before 2004 clearly Mr. Wenger had more at his disposal to compete with, and was able to use it, and it showed in the results and achievements of those teams. The Board should be fully committed to making sure he still has that ability now and that should be their first priority at all times.

The question is is that their first priority now? Pleanty of Gooners and Gunners, including the Legendary Frank McLintock, have expressed doubts as to this over the past few years.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/07/27/frank-mclintock-arsenal-need-to-buy-big-for-success-115875-20673539/

And the reports confirmed by Ken Friar that the Arsenal Board are considering commencing taking dividends in 2010 despite evidence not all the available profits are NOT being re-invested in the football team only heightens the unease many Gooners are feeling now.

http://www.arsenalinsider.co.uk/arsenal-news/exclusive-a-signing-is-imminent-as-ast-meet-ken-friar-who-reveals-that-share-dividends-have-been-discussed/

So there we are right now - what is going on? Where is the money going and why? And why was the Emirates Stadium built?

this is probably against popular opinion on here, but you are absolutely right martin. we were told that (with ashburton grove), we would operate in the black and have the necessary funds for transfers.
And by transfers, I mean on a different level than before. We wouldnt need to sell to bring in players. I was also under the impression that the wage structure would be DIFFERENT than when we played at highbury.

okay, all that being said...
perhaps it is just going to take a little bit longer than 2 seasons to recoup all the funds necessary. i certainly dont have a problem with that at all. we have a great team, will be entertaining, and have a good shot at a trophy this season.

whats the point of bitching about it martin? nothing is going to change, mate.

[Martin Daoust]

We heard what you had to say about the board and the money for over 2 months already. Nothing is going to change no matter how many times you post your opinion on the board, so why not give it a rest already? All you are doing is annoying everyone, and even if you were making a valid point (which I don't think you are), its never going to be read as everyone is too pissed off at you, and skips over your posts if they haven't already ignored you.

Come to whatever conclusion you want about how ignorant we all are, and how right you happen to be, and be done with it or else you may find people asking have you yellow carded so you cannot start any more of these threads.

Nothing we say is going to change your beliefs, and nothing you say will change ours - there is no reason to keep posting the same shit over and over and over. It has literally been over 2 months already!

Since you seem to like cat pictures, here is another one for you:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_jmqW-WO5rvg/R1kJEHD5kAI/AAAAAAAAB88/uSvlGzTI1pM/s400/cut+that+shit+out+bitch.jpg


That picture rocks - My cat Bjork use to come up on my neighbors cat like that cause she kept trying to coming in our house, would run her us the stairs to her house...

As to your other point you feel more like I do anyway so I really don't get your point except you don't ant to think about it either, which is fine - but it doesn't change anything when you're disappointed at the end of the year again. Like I say maybe the one thing we all agree is we hope I and others - including you actually - are wrong.

But ignoring the reality if that's not the case won't make any of us really feel any better when it counts...

[Martin Daoust]

That REALLY is a great pic, Rewinder...

[JCGooner]

And its the Club's finances - or what they are being used for and why.

I STILL think we ALL agree that Arsenal Football Club can genuinely compete for and win silverware regularly and operate with a profit as they do so, and that is a positive thing - it SHOULD be our goal - whether some will admit that or not.

Let me make my postion clear - I am not at all against the Board making money on its investment in Arsenal Football Club. As I said previously:

"I have NEVER said the Board should never be able to take dividends or make a return on its investment - though many other Gooners including ironically many who deeply oppose my assessment of things currently would do so. I'm not Pollyanna or a member of the Socialist Workers Party. It is THEIR money after all."

What I will say is:

"However the Board's stated intention in declaring their intentions to build a new stadium was to make more money available to strengthen the football team then was being made available at the time, and their publically stated policy now is for the profits to first go back into the football team as needed to improve the football team. At no time have dividends ever been stated as any part of why we went forward with this project."

And here is that stated policy as set out in the last Directors report:

“Despite the income and profits which we can expect to derive from the new Premier League TV contracts and from the Club's operations at Emirates Stadium, shareholders should not necessarily expect future years' accounts to report growing profits and ever increasing cash balances. This is because the Board continues to believe that the best long term policy for the Club is to re-invest profits and cash back into the development of the team. Accordingly, our business plans and budgets are prepared with a clear objective of making available to the manager the maximum possible funds for the development of the playing squad. We strongly believe that pursuing this policy of continual investment in the Club's playing staff will provide the best platform for a virtuous circle of continued on-field success at the highest level and, consequently, growth in the Club's support and revenues in the long term.”

As I said the earlier my concern is:

That clearly is not the case however at this time, and why I take such strong objection with even the discussion of taking dividends when it is clear we are not at that stage and it is highly unlikely we will be by summer's end. The Board should NEVER hold back a single penny to increase their own wealth. No board ever should...."

Again that is not to say we should be spending unlimited amounts of money at any time or certainly with any regularity or that should necessarily have any negative impact on the Shareholders or the Board taking dividends:

I would go one step further here Rewinder - I would have no problem if the club didn't spend a penny and the Board took dividends - provided the team was as strong as reasonably possible. I'll use the summer of 2003 example. The only addition that summer was Jens Lehmann (Jose came at the end of January) and yet I was perfectly satisfied because there were no truly significant departures and realistically a new No. 1 was the only pressing need we had for me (injuries could have altered that but not significantly really). Had the Board decided to take a dividend that summer despite spending what little they did I'd have had no complaint at all even before that amazing season started, such was the quality throughout that team and the squad as a whole. I'm not about spending money just because we can. I am about spending money we need to and in that instance as much(within reason) as we need to, or at least as much as we used to...

In nother words before 2004 clearly Mr. Wenger had more at his disposal to compete with, and was able to use it, and it showed in the results and achievements of those teams. The Board should be fully committed to making sure he still has that ability now and that should be their first priority at all times.

The question is is that their first priority now? Pleanty of Gooners and Gunners, including the Legendary Frank McLintock, have expressed doubts as to this over the past few years.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/07/27/frank-mclintock-arsenal-need-to-buy-big-for-success-115875-20673539/

And the reports confirmed by Ken Friar that the Arsenal Board are considering commencing taking dividends in 2010 despite evidence not all the available profits are NOT being re-invested in the football team only heightens the unease many Gooners are feeling now.

http://www.arsenalinsider.co.uk/arsenal-news/exclusive-a-signing-is-imminent-as-ast-meet-ken-friar-who-reveals-that-share-dividends-have-been-discussed/

So there we are right now - what is going on? Where is the money going and why? And why was the Emirates Stadium built?


some valid points here..not sure why the guy is taking such a hammering..did he perhaps kill one of those kittens shown above in a previous post

[Martin Daoust]

this is probably against popular opinion on here, but you are absolutely right martin. we were told that (with ashburton grove), we would operate in the black and have the necessary funds for transfers.
And by transfers, I mean on a different level than before. We wouldnt need to sell to bring in players. I was also under the impression that the wage structure would be DIFFERENT than when we played at highbury.

okay, all that being said...
perhaps it is just going to take a little bit longer than 2 seasons to recoup all the funds necessary. i certainly dont have a problem with that at all. we have a great team, will be entertaining, and have a good shot at a trophy this season.

whats the point of bitching about it martin? nothing is going to change, mate.

The point is that me be the ONLY thing that CAN change it - the supporters caring about it.

Honestly I really fear we could end up like Liverpool after 1990, or worse s***s after 1961. I don't want to look back in 10 or 20 or more years and 2004 was the last year we won the League when we were told were brioke up that team to help pay for a stadium that was supposed to make it possible to build bigger and better teams than the 2004 team.

I don't even want to wait 10 or 20 years to win the League to win the League again when we didn't need the new stadium, or all the money that would come with it to win the League three times in seven years - especially when should have won it five times and could have won it six times over that time!

Like I say Lets hope I'm worng and some oif us may not ven be alive or that interested anyway by then - but God Forbid I and others were right and we were here still what would the excuses or explanations be then for the Board or or those who attacked anyone who questioned the Board? Serious question, what would we - what SHOULD we be saying THEN?

[phishy]

The point is that me be the ONLY thing that CAN change it - the supporters caring about it.

Honestly I really fear we could end up like Liverpool after 1990, or worse s***s after 1961. I don't want to look back in 10 or 20 or more years and 2004 was the last year we won the League when we were told were brioke up that team to help pay for a stadium that was supposed to make it possible to build bigger and better teams than the 2004 team.

I don't even want to wait 10 or 20 years to win the League to win the League again when we didn't need the new stadium, or all the money that would come with it to win the League three times in seven years - especially when should have won it five times and could have won it six times over that time!

Like I say Lets hope I'm worng and some oif us may not ven be alive or that interested anyway by then - but God Forbid I and others were right and we were here still what would the excuses or explanations be then for the Board or or those who attacked anyone who questioned the Board? Serious question, what would we - what SHOULD we be saying THEN?

okay... carry that stance martin..
but YOU CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
you care, we all care.. fine. get over it and move on.
this constant moaning and bitching makes you look like a spoiled 12 year old who wants a pony.

[Darth Norteño]

some valid points here..not sure why the guy is taking such a hammering..did he perhaps kill one of those kittens shown above in a previous post

In a sense...posting the same goddamn thread over and over again ad absurdum is akin to masturbation. So yeah, he killed a kitten. And at the risk of looking a hypocrite since he's IL+1 as far as I'm concerned, I'm only here to post this:

I saw someone on another site refer to where all the money goes as The Arsenal Stadium Mystery.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Arsenal_Stadium_Mystery.jpg

"I am more keen to embezzle the gate receipts from this match...than I am for 80% of our matches throughout the season!"

[G dot Ozo]

We heard what you had to say about the board and the money for over 2 months already. Nothing is going to change no matter how many times you post your opinion on the board, so why not give it a rest already? All you are doing is annoying everyone, and even if you were making a valid point (which I don't think you are), its never going to be read as everyone is too pissed off at you, and skips over your posts if they haven't already ignored you.

Come to whatever conclusion you want about how ignorant we all are, and how right you happen to be, and be done with it or else you may find people asking have you yellow carded so you cannot start any more of these threads.

Nothing we say is going to change your beliefs, and nothing you say will change ours - there is no reason to keep posting the same shit over and over and over. It has literally been over 2 months already!

Since you seem to like cat pictures, here is another one for you:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_jmqW-WO5rvg/R1kJEHD5kAI/AAAAAAAAB88/uSvlGzTI1pM/s400/cut+that+shit+out+bitch.jpg

Stop trying to censor him :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I can't quite work out how someone can repeat themselves over and over and not get tired. You're an extraordinary human being Martin. And no, this is not censoring, nobody on this board has ever tried to prevent you from discussing your views. But you don't see anyone else repeating their opinions at such length and frequency on any topic.



Honestly I really fear we could end up like Liverpool after 1990, or worse s***s after 1961. I don't want to look back in 10 or 20 or more years and 2004 was the last year we won the League when we were told were brioke up that team to help pay for a stadium that was supposed to make it possible to build bigger and better teams than the 2004 team.



LOL

For the last time the Invincibles weren't actively 'broken up' to pay for anything. If those lads were still in their primes today, they'd still be here, full stop. Second, we're two years on from the stadium. That's it. The stadium doesn't work the same way as a billionaire owner.

[Hyuuga Neji]

That picture rocks - My cat Bjork use to come up on my neighbors cat like that cause she kept trying to coming in our house, would run her us the stairs to her house...

As to your other point you feel more like I do anyway so I really don't get your point except you don't ant to think about it either, which is fine - but it doesn't change anything when you're disappointed at the end of the year again. Like I say maybe the one thing we all agree is we hope I and others - including you actually - are wrong.

But ignoring the reality if that's not the case won't make any of us really feel any better when it counts...
You named your cat Bjork?
:eek:


It's worse than I previously feared...

[Martin Daoust]

In a sense...posting the same goddamn thread over and over again ad absurdum is akin to masturbation. So yeah, he killed a kitten. And at the risk of looking a hypocrite since he's IL+1 as far as I'm concerned, I'm only here to post this:



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Arsenal_Stadium_Mystery.jpg

"I am more keen to embezzle the gate receipts from this match...than I am for 80% of our matches throughout the season!"

I LOVE that movie.... :)