SOMETHING Isn't Adding Up....

[Martin Daoust]

while I DO agree with you...I must credit Yossarian for doing an excellent job moderating the boards. I'm sure it's a pretty thankless task and I can't imagine that he likes deleting responses.

But so that this post doesn't go completely OT...Martin, you seem to be saying the same things over and over again. While it's your right to do so, don't you ever get tired of making the same argument? I'm really curious to know why you persist so diligently since you're pretty unlikely to convince the board to change their policies and I doubt that you'll convince anyone around here if you haven't done so already.

Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not questioning your right to make (the same) arguments, just wondering about your motivation for doing so.

Since you've asked - of course I do - especially with the barracking I get just for making it, never mind whether its a valid argument or not or whether in fact any of things I am concerned with are actually happening! This discussion has never been and never will be any fun toi have. But its THAT important I think - the future of our club competitvely as well as financially - that it justifies for me both this discussion, even with all the crap I end up taking for it.


I think we owe it to ourselves as supporters to expect more from our Board precisely because its our Board, and follows in the path of previous Boards, Directors, and Club Owners at Arsenal who have set the standards so many speak so proudly of - including myself - of conduct for a football board we all want tosee continued at Arsenal for the good of the Football Team and out of respect to the ideals the football club holds so dear.

I think we also owe it to ourselves to see that the Wenger Era ends on the high that it should which is the high that it began. I don't think sacrificing what had been built from 1998-2004 is justified by the football club or - more accurately as I see it - its shareholders growing richer at the expens of the football team's ability to compete to reach the heights Mr. Wenger had taken us to up until the club's priority became the new stadium. I'm sorry but I'll be selfish here. I have no children yet, so I can't see Arsenal POSSIBLY winning more silverware in 30 years easing my pain here and now at seeing us descend of our will from the heights most of us never imagined Arsenal could reach.

And so long as I'm not sure this Board is either following the ways of the boards that preceded it in putting Arsenal ahead of any personal gain, or that I'm not sure is investing everything it can in this team to reach the heights of 1998-2004 in order to increase its own wealth. I'll be here

(Cue the finale from "The Grapes Of Wrath" - a marvellous book and movie in all seriousness)

[Martin Daoust]

and martin talks about censorship.. lol.

Phish - what's so unreasonable about that? I agreed to stop posting about the Board in other threads - even in threads where frankly the Board has relevance, such as the transfer thread (the Board sets the transfer budget, the wage scale and pays the transfer fees and wages...)and I have honored my agreement. No one is saying you can't come in to discuss this. Just stop coming in only to complain its being discussed or to insult myself and others who are discussing it.

If you want to discuss this you're absolutely welcome and within your ight to come on in. If you want to discuss other topics occasionally - movies, sports, college football, whatever - just don't comein just to have a go at anyone just for discussing this. That's not censorship. You can go into any numbers of threads where I or others sharing my views have been flamed and flame away. Just not here. I think that's fair.

[bigINTERNETTOUGHGUY]

Since you've asked - of course I do - especially with the barracking I get just for making it, never mind whether its a valid argument or not or whether in fact any of things I am concerned with are actually happening! This discussion has never been and never will be any fun toi have. But its THAT important I think - the future of our club competitvely as well as financially - that it justifies for me both this discussion, even with all the crap I end up taking for it.


I think we owe it to ourselves as supporters to expect more from our Board precisely because its our Board, and follows in the path of previous Boards, Directors, and Club Owners at Arsenal who have set the standards so many speak so proudly of - including myself - of conduct for a football board we all want tosee continued at Arsenal for the good of the Football Team and out of respect to the ideals the football club holds so dear.

I think we also owe it to ourselves to see that the Wenger Era ends on the high that it should which is the high that it began. I don't think sacrificing what had been built from 1998-2004 is justified by the football club or - more accurately as I see it - its shareholders growing richer at the expens of the football team's ability to compete to reach the heights Mr. Wenger had taken us to up until the club's priority became the new stadium. I'm sorry but I'll be selfish here. I have no children yet, so I can't see Arsenal POSSIBLY winning more silverware in 30 years easing my pain here and now at seeing us descend of our will from the heights most of us never imagined Arsenal could reach.

And so long as I'm not sure this Board is either following the ways of the boards that preceded it in putting Arsenal ahead of any personal gain, or that I'm not sure is investing everything it can in this team to reach the heights of 1998-2004 in order to increase its own wealth. I'll be here

(Cue the finale from "The Grapes Of Wrath" - a marvellous book and movie in all seriousness)

The argument is interesting, but I'm not sure it's important that it gets discussed. Why? Because what's posted on an internet bulletin board won't make any difference to Lady Nina, Danny, Stan the Man or anyone else at Arsenal.

Arsenal are a bit different in their ownership than most clubs. The owners have been around for a long time and many of the major shareholders inherited their shares. Unfortunately, several of them shareholders are rich but not super-rich, meaning that they can't just invest money into the club without the hope of a return. Fact is, most would be better off, financially, if they sold out to Usmanov (I really would hate for that to happen and I would seriously give some thought to supporting another club). But they have managed to hold on, in spite of the financial incentive to sell.

So if they take some money out of the club, well really, that's ok by me, so long as they're not trying to pull a scam like they did at Hearts. I think it's nearly impossible for someone who is not on the inside to really know what's going on. Is the Board not giving Wenger money or does he refuse to spend it? I believe it's been said that they have never turned him down when he's asked for funds to buy a player. So if they'e not turning him down, then what? I tend to believe Arsene is an idealist and he doesn't want to spend big money on players, so perhaps it's not the Board after all.

Anyhow, I give you credit for sticking to your guns, but for your own sake, I really wish you could learn to embrace the team warts and all. It's a lot more fun when you do.

Cheers Martin.

[HomeatHighbury]

While I risk incurring Yoss' wrath, I feel this ought to be the Board's title song:

YnM1Ee_H2As

[bigINTERNETTOUGHGUY]

While I risk incurring Yoss' wrath, I feel this ought to be the Board's title song:

YnM1Ee_H2As (http://%5Byoutube%5DYnM1Ee_H2As%5B/youtube%5D)

To be fair, that should really be the title of every thread on the board.

[Martin Daoust]

The argument is interesting, but I'm not sure it's important that it gets discussed. Why? Because what's posted on an internet bulletin board won't make any difference to Lady Nina, Danny, Stan the Man or anyone else at Arsenal.

But if lots of gooners from lots of websites start asking questions and expressing concerns that CAN have an a positive effect. If the Board feels enough public pressure they may decide to listen and do as the supporters or not do as they don't wish the Board to. I think you'd agree with each passing year this period drags on more and more Gooners are expressing doubts - about the team, the manager and even the Board.

That's why what Frank McLintock has said may prove to be very important. He is Arsenal through-and-through, a legend from some of our greatest teams and finest moments, and a Gooner who supports us activbely. He is also a season ticket holder and a Club Level member. And him expressing his concerns about our ability to compete on our current spending and the cost of tickets to supporters make what he has to say absolutley vital to the Board right now.

Arsenal are a bit different in their ownership than most clubs. The owners have been around for a long time and many of the major shareholders inherited their shares. Unfortunately, several of them shareholders are rich but not super-rich, meaning that they can't just invest money into the club without the hope of a return. Fact is, most would be better off, financially, if they sold out to Usmanov (I really would hate for that to happen and I would seriously give some thought to supporting another club). But they have managed to hold on, in spite of the financial incentive to sell.

I think that's true. And if I have one regret about my part in this debate it is not being more clear that the person I believe is driving all of this including possibly the misleading of the supporters about why we built the Emiratesi s Danny Fiszman. He along with Lady Bracewell-Smith have by far the most go gain by selling or taking dividends of anyone on the Board. Lady Bracewell-Smith is now believedto be ready to sell her holdings in the club(though some suggest there are rules in place that would stop her beyond the lock-down agreement)when Mr. Fiszman sells his and he reportedly is looking to do so - just not to anyone who might bring David Dein back to Arsenal. And I have it on good authority that he was looking to do so last year as well but no buyer without ties to Mr.Dein was out there.

All I'll say on Mr. Usmanov is I share your discomfort with him, or any other Russian billionaire. But by all accounts he has the wealth needed to buy the club outright and unfortunately Mr. Kroenke does not at this time, and do we want to be in the same sitation as ManU without their money generating power?

So if they take some money out of the club, well really, that's ok by me, so long as they're not trying to pull a scam like they did at Hearts. I think it's nearly impossible for someone who is not on the inside to really know what's going on. Is the Board not giving Wenger money or does he refuse to spend it? I believe it's been said that they have never turned him down when he's asked for funds to buy a player. So if they'e not turning him down, then what? I tend to believe Arsene is an idealist and he doesn't want to spend big money on players, so perhaps it's not the Board after all.

Neither do I really and I've said that quite often as I'm sure you've read ;) I just believe they should honor their publically stated policy of re-investing in the team first whatever the manager needs to improve the team sufficiently even if they have shall we say "convince" him to use it - that can also include expanding the wage structure to make using that money worth the effort.

On Mr. Wenger - why did he just become this idealist in 2006? He was NEVER a huge spender but he clearly wasn't afraid to spend shrewdly or pragmatically and on proven players of top quality. He didn't spend the same way on the same players from 1998-2004 as he has since 2005 really and definitely not since the summer of 2006.

Anyhow, I give you credit for sticking to your guns, but for your own sake, I really wish you could learn to embrace the team warts and all. It's a lot more fun when you do.

That's just it - I can and do. Match days are a refuge form all the issues and angst. Those 90 minutes and our team giving its all over that time is ALL that matters. That's the most wonderful thing about football - its all that matters when the match is on and its Arsenal playing. All this stuff fades into the background

Cheers Martin.

And cheers to you, BITG....

[antifan]

But if lots of gooners from lots of websites start asking questions and expressing concerns that CAN have an a positive effect. If the Board feels enough public pressure they may decide to listen and do as the supporters or not do as they don't wish the Board to. I think you'd agree with each passing year this period drags on more and more Gooners are expressing doubts - about the team, the manager and even the Board.
Agreed. Alot of people have expressed these doubts once or twice. Others have expressed them a thousand times. The fact is, these doubts will only be proven false or well founded with time.


That's why what Frank McLintock has said may prove to be very important. He is Arsenal through-and-through, a legend from some of our greatest teams and finest moments, and a Gooner who supports us activbely. He is also a season ticket holder and a Club Level member. And him expressing his concerns about our ability to compete on our current spending and the cost of tickets to supporters make what he has to say absolutley vital to the Board right now.

If they don't care about the club and its success, why do you think they care what Frank McLintock says? Or what you say?


I think that's true. And if I have one regret about my part in this debate it is not being more clear that the person I believe is driving all of this including possibly the misleading of the supporters about why we built the Emiratesi s Danny Fiszman. He along with Lady Bracewell-Smith have by far the most go gain by selling or taking dividends of anyone on the Board. Lady Bracewell-Smith is now believedto be ready to sell her holdings in the club(though some suggest there are rules in place that would stop her beyond the lock-down agreement)when Mr. Fiszman sells his and he reportedly is looking to do so - just not to anyone who might bring David Dein back to Arsenal. And I have it on good authority that he was looking to do so last year as well but no buyer without ties to Mr.Dein was out there.

Please cite a source saying that Fiszman or LBS (Lady B-S?) is currently looking to sell their shares. I haven't seen any. The fact is, either was perfectly capable to sell out to Usmanov or Kroenke (amongst others, certainly) and both chose to sign an agreement not to do so. Why would they agree to do that if they only sought maximum financial gain?


All I'll say on Mr. Usmanov is I share your discomfort with him, or any other Russian billionaire. But by all accounts he has the wealth needed to buy the club outright and unfortunately Mr. Kroenke does not at this time, and do we want to be in the same sitation as ManU without their money generating power?

I think that you would love to be in the same stituation as ManU right now. Back to back Premier medals and a European Cup? Is that not your dream?
Neither do I really and I've said that quite often as I'm sure you've read ;) I just believe they should honor their publically stated policy of re-investing in the team first whatever the manager needs to improve the team sufficiently even if they have shall we say "convince" him to use it - that can also include expanding the wage structure to make using that money worth the effort.

How many players got new contracts this offseason? The "wage structure" argument is a red herring. The facts are last report showed a profit of 30 mil, the one before 5 mil (approximately?) Surely some of this profit from player trading, correct? So what are the real profts? How much of that profit has already been spent? How much is needed in reserve?

On Mr. Wenger - why did he just become this idealist in 2006? He was NEVER a huge spender but he clearly wasn't afraid to spend shrewdly or
pragmatically and on proven players of top quality. He didn't spend the same way on the same players from 1998-2004 as he has since 2005 really and definitely not since the summer of 2006.

Over the past 5 years Wenger has spent a great deal... on young talent. I think he deserves a chance to show that money was spent wisely. Given his track record with young talent, i have no rational reason to doubt him. Is there a good reason to doubt him? What's yours?


That's just it - I can and do. Match days are a refuge form all the issues and angst. Those 90 minutes and our team giving its all over that time is ALL that matters. That's the most wonderful thing about football - its all that matters when the match is on and its Arsenal playing. All this stuff fades into the background

As well it should.

I realize i've asked you alot of questions here, Martin. But they aren't rhetorical questions. I would sincerely appreciate if you would answer them carefully and honestly.

[Lanesra]

My posts have been deleted,WTF,freedom of speech my arse:mad::mad::mad:

This place is not what it used to be,I used to enjoy coming here,so did a lot of others,why have they gone I wonder?

[The Grim Returner]

Guys, please either engage Martin in discussion on this issue or don't post here. He's agreed not to bring this issue into other threads....so please respect his desire to discuss board issues here without trolling or trying to threadjack. Thanks.

Who cares what martin daoust thinks. In the grand scale of things his opinions are irrelevant. Arsenal have been run this way for over 100 years and will continue to be run this way for the next 100 years. Why would I waste my time bashing my head against a brick wall when I've got a football club to support!

Give it up Martin - you are a VERY boring man!

[DoctorK]

what's posted on an internet bulletin board won't make any difference to Lady Nina

Marillion allusion?

Can I have my own thread, too?

This thread has flogged a dead horse over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. If Nietzsche had a ghost, he'd be haunting us all.

Please tell me when this thread is locked another won't pop up in its place, for a conspiracy theory to be rehashed ad nauseum.

[Martin Daoust]

My posts have been deleted,WTF,freedom of speech my arse:mad::mad::mad:

This place is not what it used to be,I used to enjoy coming here,so did a lot of others,why have they gone I wonder?

Yes its fun when you can just shower abuse fiarly or otherwise on anyone with the nerve not to share your views of the club or the way it is being run. That's much more fun than discussing real issues about the club's future.

For some it clearly is.

[Martin Daoust]

While I risk incurring Yoss' wrath, I feel this ought to be the Board's title song:

YnM1Ee_H2As

You have incurred MY wrath - the memories you have brought back with are just - well, just horrible..... ;)

[Martin Daoust]

Who cares what martin daoust thinks. In the grand scale of things his opinions are irrelevant. Arsenal have been run this way for over 100 years and will continue to be run this way for the next 100 years. Why would I waste my time bashing my head against a brick wall when I've got a football club to support!

Give it up Martin - you are a VERY boring man!

Apparently YOU do - or else you wouildn't be opening this thread at all or replying in it - especuially given just how VERY boring I am.

As for irrelevant opinions - who on earth at Arsenal gives a toss about how any player performs in any match? Face it you're picking and choosing what is relevant and irrelevant to justify your views and only to justify your views, not based on what actually might be more relevant. Hell we've got people slating the 16- and 17- and 18- year olds who played in a FRIENDLY this weekend.

Really some of you really - its okay to publically insult and attack teenagers trying to start a professional footballing career, or veterans giving every ounce of what they have to keep their careers going, but not a club's Board that may be betraying the supporters trust in it and mis-managing the club in key areas? Give me a break.

[The Jitty Slitter]

Yes, and its also been explained by people that that money can be used either for the team or for paying dividends if they choose to do so. It is not standard operating procedure but it can be done if they choose to.

Dividends have to be taken from PROFITS. Seriously, you need to check this. Anything else constitutes a distribution of the companies assets back to shareholders. The PROFIT was 5m. BEFORE tax.



So then you accept the Board and shareholders making a maximum profit is the number goal the club should have? Ahead of competing as best as possible to win silverware, I take it....

It's not what I accept....

Company directors are under legal obligations to drive value for shareholders and avoid risks/liabilities.

As to your last point, then why would Alisher Usmanov be pushing for them

Gee I dunno Martin - perhaps because he isn't an arsenal fan, has only recently bought in at the top price, and wants to make return on investment?

indeed some here suggest that is the only reason we are considering taking them now - in all serious they would be making less money than if they sold - but they haven't been making ANY money really, have they? That's all the more reason to suggest THAT and NOT the football team's increased success drove building the new ground for some.

Given he wasn't a shareholder at the time that is a bizarre jump of logic.


Sure there is - the football team, its performance, and its makeup from 1998-2004 and from 2005-2008. Especially now with that much more money available, and that's just a start....

But read the accounts. There wasn't much more money available. In fact in the last published accounts only a balance of 5m was available. It's in the future that much more money will be available.... especially 2010.

[antifan]

The most recent statement i read did show an increased profit through the first six months of the year.

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/jul_08/gun__1215525851_arsenal22022008.pdf

[The Jitty Slitter]

The most recent statement i read did show an increased profit through the first six months of the year.

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/jul_08/gun__1215525851_arsenal22022008.pdf

Yep. The half year result. But of course we've had a massive melt down in the global credit markets and UK housing market since then.

The thing is that the heat is on not to find a one off 30m, but to find it every year. That's the whole point of building the superior business model.

But everyone wants to spend the money before it's actually been made.

[Martin Daoust]

Agreed. Alot of people have expressed these doubts once or twice. Others have expressed them a thousand times. The fact is, these doubts will only be proven false or well founded with time.

This is true to a an extent. I feel the more we know now about what is going on the more influence we can have on what is happening now and in the future. Waiting to see(that is not pushing the club to explain things more sooner)what happens only ensures that either the best- or worst-case scenario will happen, and once it does, the worst-case scenario I mean, its too late to argue debate, complain, or change it, or the course of the club's destiny from it. We can't wait till I and others are proven right - IF that happens - to then be concerned about that possibility

If they don't care about the club and its success, why do you think they care what Frank McLintock says? Or what you say?

Come on, OF COURSE Messers Hill-Wood and Friar go to this page between 1-3 PM in London every day JUST to see what I'm Saying about them and their work..... ;D

As I suggested last night, me alone virtually no one is listening to or wants to listen to. But as time has gone, as we learn a bit more about the club's inner workingds and the trophyless seasons continue - more and more Gooners, as you suggest in your first paragraph, are expressing these doubts, and more of them are expressing them more frequently. That can influence the Club and the Board and its actions, especially as more season ticket holders are heard expressing doubts.

Which brings us to Frank McLintock. On top of being an Arsenal legend and Arsenal-through-and-through, he is a Season Ticket holder, more over he is a Club Level Member, and owns one of the Luxury Boxes. He has about 7,000 reasons the Board will listen to him.

For him to express concern about the Board's or the Manager's financial Policies and contrast them with expenses incurred by Gooners, particularly season ticket holders whether Club Level Members or more traditional Season Ticket Holders, as well as Red and Silver, along with Gold Members attending single matches, and suggest he is(and thus many of the others I have described) are disappointed by the team's direction given thier investment in it by buying these tickets at these prices will surely get some attention and concern form the Board.

Please cite a source saying that Fiszman or LBS (Lady B-S?) is currently looking to sell their shares. I haven't seen any. The fact is, either was perfectly capable to sell out to Usmanov or Kroenke (amongst others, certainly) and both chose to sign an agreement not to do so. Why would they agree to do that if they only sought maximum financial gain?

I am in contact with a shareholder who attends the Shareholders Trust events as well the Club's meetings and the AGM who has been passing this information along to me. He posts on another forum and out of respect to him his name shall remain confidential at this time. He is the person who it should be noted believes Mr. Fiszman along - with Lady Bracewell- Smith - is looking to sell again. He told me earlier that he had been looking to sell last year but the David Dein affair ended any desire he had to sell at that time(and given the were strong rumors of him negotiating to sell to a Russian billionaire - Usmanov perhaps ? - right prior to him telling me this, well...). He has no intention to sell now as long as the only option is to sell to a group that would bring Mr. Dein back inot Arsenal, he told me.

He also told me that Keith Edelman had related a similar report to him, as well as that last year the Board believed Stan Kroenke had the means to purchase the club outright with any loan, and thus no debt added onto the current debt. No worringly their has been a reassessment of this, and its is believed Mr. Kroenke WOULD have to borrow to buy the club(perhaps this is down to the rumors about Mr. Kreonke buying the Rosenbloom family's 60% share of the St. Louis Rams), so this bears serious watching if indeed anyone is looking to sell and to sell to Mr. Kroenke at this time.If the possibilty of debt leverage didn't exist I think Mr. Kroenke would do an excellent job guiding the club forward.

One last point - while I'm no bookkeeper or accountant - I do understand something about business. And maximizing your profit and seeking the absolute maximum profit are not the same thing. Take the rumored sale of Justin Hoyte. If we put a 10 Million pound price tag on him we COULD make at least 10 million pounds, depending on how many interested buyers contact us. But if no one contacts us then we won't make a penny. The same holds if we ask for 7.5 or 5 million straight away and still draw no bids. But if we ask for 3 million and two or three teams table that bid, we WILL make at least 3 million and maybe make as much as 4 to 4.5 million off his sale, which is 3 to 4.5 million more than we would have if we tried to force teams to bid more than he is worth to them simply to make the absolute maximum in profit. So to not sell to Usmanov and to wait for a buyer they want to sell to is not huge problem for either Mr. Fiszman or Lady-Bracewell smith(especially LB-S) as they asre playing with the house's money already by some margin.

I think that you would love to be in the same stituation as ManU right now. Back to back Premier medals and a European Cup? Is that not your dream?

What United is achieving on-the-ptch ? Sure I would - who wouldn't ? How they are operating off-the-pitch ? Never. The Glazer are like the financial equaivalent of locusts really and sooner or later they will eat away everything they can get away with eating, and I wouldn't wish that on ANY club's supporters - ours least of all of course ;)

However I think there is whole lot of ground between - and more importantly, that much more of a middle ground - between what we are doing now, whatever the reasoning or straegy or motivation behind it, and what they are doing up there, and we should work our way toward, if not directly to, that middle ground with maximum speed, or risk the long-term consequences of failing to do so while we could.


How many players got new contracts this offseason? The "wage structure" argument is a red herring. The facts are last report showed a profit of 30 mil, the one before 5 mil (approximately?) Surely some of this profit from player trading, correct? So what are the real profts? How much of that profit has already been spent? How much is needed in reserve?

See this is where we'll disagree a bit more. There is no doubt in my mind the wage structure not only keeps the wage bill lower, but the transfer budget as well,as we cannot consider players like Ribery say, who went to Bayern for a price we could have handled, but they just paid him wages Mr. Wenger couldn't dream of offering straight way. I am certain the wage structure has forced Mr. Wenger to abandon pursuing many top players he might have otherwise, which is its purpose I suspect. Especially as it allows the Board to insist rather disingenuously that it has never dienied Mr. Wenger a penny or a player. It denies him most maybe nearly all top proven players from the very start of the window really. I think the claim about Mr. Wenger has whatever money he needs is the real red herring.

Over the past 5 years Wenger has spent a great deal... on young talent. I think he deserves a chance to show that money was spent wisely. Given his track record with young talent, i have no rational reason to doubt him. Is there a good reason to doubt him? What's yours?

I think the results speak for themsleves - and as Mr. Wenger and the Arsenal Board deserve every bit of credit for their combined efforts to make what we achieved from 1998-2005(and too many people do forget the Board had more than a bit of a role to play in that success as they do in our current decline). This isn't simply a matter of we MUST win the League EVERY year or or we must win SOMETHING every year. But what we achieved from 1998-2005 should not make trophyless top-four finishes signs of success or continued excellence, or causes for celebration. 1998-2005 was the most successful period in our club's history, bar none. We should not give that up for anything less than gretaer success and that clearly is not guaranteed in the future and certainlyn looks unlikely anytime soon. I don't think we should be satisfied with going back to winning the League once a decade with all the resources we have now, like a 200 million pound turnover annually, when with a 21 million pound annual turnover under the same manager we won the League three times in eight years and finished runners-up the other five - and could easily have won the League five times over that period.

And when you consider he spent more on more proven players over that period -while the Emirates was being built that was a necessity. But to continue doing so now, when you don't have to, its not how you spent previously, and it hasn't yielded real results yet and may take us backward this year unless we really get lucky and avoid any injuries - and that ship's already getting set to sail -well it makes little real sense for me from a footballing perspective really




As well it should.

Wednesday night is almost here and the nervous excitement is starting in earnest.


I realize i've asked you alot of questions here, Martin. But they aren't rhetorical questions. I would sincerely appreciate if you would answer them carefully and honestly.

Hope I have....

[bigINTERNETTOUGHGUY]

But if lots of gooners from lots of websites start asking questions and expressing concerns that CAN have an a positive effect. If the Board feels enough public pressure they may decide to listen and do as the supporters or not do as they don't wish the Board to. I think you'd agree with each passing year this period drags on more and more Gooners are expressing doubts - about the team, the manager and even the Board.

Well, it CAN but there is an extremely high probability it WON'T. It's pretty clear that people around here are tuning you out, so why should the Board listen to you (I'm not saying this to inflame, just stating what I see)? If you want to maximize your ability to influence the Board, start a blog or a petition. Even if your intentions are good, your methods are unlikely to get you the gain that you seek.

The Board is certainly worried about more than simply money -- if they wanted to maximize their money they would cash out. Instead, they're also worried about the legacy of a team that has an enemy inside the gates.

That's why what Frank McLintock has said may prove to be very important. He is Arsenal through-and-through, a legend from some of our greatest teams and finest moments, and a Gooner who supports us activbely. He is also a season ticket holder and a Club Level member. And him expressing his concerns about our ability to compete on our current spending and the cost of tickets to supporters make what he has to say absolutley vital to the Board right now.

I'm not sure Frank McClintock has ever run what would amount to a billion dollar corporation so I don't know how much credibility he has. Essentially, he's a fan that at one time played for Arsenal. Nothing more.

I think that's true. And if I have one regret about my part in this debate it is not being more clear that the person I believe is driving all of this including possibly the misleading of the supporters about why we built the Emiratesi s Danny Fiszman. He along with Lady Bracewell-Smith have by far the most go gain by selling or taking dividends of anyone on the Board. Lady Bracewell-Smith is now believedto be ready to sell her holdings in the club(though some suggest there are rules in place that would stop her beyond the lock-down agreement)when Mr. Fiszman sells his and he reportedly is looking to do so - just not to anyone who might bring David Dein back to Arsenal. And I have it on good authority that he was looking to do so last year as well but no buyer without ties to Mr.Dein was out there.

Fiszman was essentially tricked by Dein into selling Usmanov a part of his shareholdings. If Fiszman was all about money, he could easily maximize his profits by striking a deal w/ fat and orange. He hasn't done that because there is a principle involved. And if Fiszman really is looking to sell, then it's juts a matter of time before this problem goes away by itself, no?

All I'll say on Mr. Usmanov is I share your discomfort with him, or any other Russian billionaire. But by all accounts he has the wealth needed to buy the club outright and unfortunately Mr. Kroenke does not at this time, and do we want to be in the same sitation as ManU without their money generating power?

I actually know the owners of Man U (one of the sons, more accurately). They sleep pretty well at night.

Neither do I really and I've said that quite often as I'm sure you've read ;) I just believe they should honor their publically stated policy of re-investing in the team first whatever the manager needs to improve the team sufficiently even if they have shall we say "convince" him to use it - that can also include expanding the wage structure to make using that money worth the effort.

As I stated previously, Wenger has said that he's NEVER been denied the funds to make a purchae he wants. So, should the Board force him to spend big on a player that he doesn't want?

On Mr. Wenger - why did he just become this idealist in 2006? He was NEVER a huge spender but he clearly wasn't afraid to spend shrewdly or pragmatically and on proven players of top quality. He didn't spend the same way on the same players from 1998-2004 as he has since 2005 really and definitely not since the summer of 2006.

I don't know if he only became an idealist in 2006. Our boss never liked spending that much cash. He's make the occasional big purchase, but he's continued to do so even these days. Personally, I think he has an idea what things cost and the economist in him doesn't want to overpay. Now whether his valuation has kept up in line with the market is questionable. Every so often I think he's like a pensioner who can't understand why a loaf of bread doesn't cost a nickle.

Be good...

[Martin Daoust]

The most recent statement i read did show an increased profit through the first six months of the year.

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/jul_08/gun__1215525851_arsenal22022008.pdf

Cheers for the link - I'll be reviewing this and consulting the people who help me try and understand this later...

[antifan]

Cheers for the link - I'll be reviewing this and consulting the people who help me try and understand this later...

Here's a link to the financial reports from the last few years.

http://www.arsenal.com/the-club/corporate-info/arsenal-holdings-financial-results