The New Austin Youth Soccer Oligarchy

[flash2008]

We need to bring to light what may be happening to the independence of young soccer talent in Austin. Share your views, evidence on the pitfalls and who really benefits from the alliance between semi pro Aztex and the "not for profit" (really?) Lonestars.

[TwoMeters]

We need to bring to light what may be happening to the independence of soccer fans in Austin. Share your views, evidence on the pitfalls and who really benefits from the alliance between Aztex supporters and the "I'm not a troll" (really?) flash2008.
There. Fixed that for you.

[VioletCrown]

The obvious slant of flash's original post aside, I do think this is a question worth discussing.

Not that any worthwhile discussions ever happen on BS. (see? I did it again!;))

But it is a real concern for the Aztex. The Aztex will be far more likely to succeed if they have the buy-in from all the youth clubs in the area. flash's comments suggest that there's some resentment in the Austin youth soccer community.

My questions:

1. What does this mean "the independence of young soccer talent in Austin"?

2. Is the alliance between the Aztex and the Lonestars exclusive?

3. How much resentment is there in the youth soccer community about the alliance between the Aztex and the Lonestars?

The answers to these questions, the last one in particular, will tell me whether flash's comments are worth worrying about.

Since I don't have a kid and don't plan to, I have no connections to the youth soccer community, so I don't have any answers to these questions. Looking forward to comments from folks that are.

My one request is that people step back, take a breath, and try to be civil.

[Budaztex]

I guess I'm not smart enough to try and see what Flash is getting at here. I personally have zero affiliation with the Lone Stars (can't even tell you where they practice) and have had no kids play for the Lone Stars. I do have a friend who's child plays for one of the teams and that kid has been thrilled about going to the games and has been to almost all the home games. If I did have a kid in the U-16 or U-18 range I would be excited about the possibility of having my child play on the PDL team in hopes of getting more exposure and training, and if that kid was good enough it shouldn't matter what club they played for.
Most of the parents that I've seen at the games were very excited about having their kids recognized at half time, they were also excited about seeing their fellow soccer moms & dads and BS'ing (the normal "BS") with less tension than being at one of their kids games. So in a nutshell I think the Aztex organization is a plus for youth soccer.
I'm sure the Aztex have made mistakes along and I'm sure they will make more in time, but I think they can only help youth soccer locally.

[flash2008]

one comment...the PDL team used to the only "escape" for local U18, U17 players trying to assert their independence from local youth clubs, not to mention from the incestuous ODP network. The linkup between the Aztex and the Lonestars was a dagger through the heart of future players hoping for a break.

[Blackburn]

one comment...the PDL team used to the only "escape" for local U18, U17 players trying to assert their independence from local youth clubs, not to mention from the incestuous ODP network. The linkup between the Aztex and the Lonestars was a dagger through the heart of future players hoping for a break.

Okay, so your beef with the Aztex is that they partnered with the largest local youth soccer club in the area, and you don't like the way that youth club operates?

First off, though I don't necessarily like your tone, this is an issue that could have a negative impact on Aztex and Austin soccer in general, so I do thank you for bringing it up.

That being said, do you have any evidence that the senior management of the club is actually doing anything to hurt local youth soccer? Also, what exactly do you mean by "future players hoping for a break?" My guess is that you have an issue with the way teams are selected by Lonestars. I have no children, did not grow up in Austin, and haven't played youth soccer in 20 years, so I willingly admit my ignorance of how Lonestars work internally. If this is the case, what is your specific issue? How exactly are Lonestars holding players down?

Second, what alternative is/was there exactly FOR Aztex? If you're a new pro team in town, especially one put together as quickly as this one, to whom else would you turn? If you're right about the politics of the situation (and bear in mind, I'm not saying you are or are not), then what do you want Aztex to do? Start an entirely new youth apparatus from scratch? That takes a lot of time and effort, which, at the moment, are more properly directed at getting the clubs set up. In a few years, once the USL-1 and W-league teams come on-line, maybe the Aztex will have the bandwidth to set up a Super Y-League team, and even younger squads. Then though, who do you get to coach? You seem to dislike most of the folks associated with the biggest program in the area. Do you want all the coaches hired from outside of Austin? Doesn't that strike you at all as some overkill?

The comment has been made by VioletCrown in another thread that youth soccer politics have held the sport back in this country. That may well be. In England (which I'm most familiar with), most of the extremely promising players get snapped up by academies run by professional teams. That does tend to remove the parental feelings from the mix - Joe McSoccerParent can't browbeat an academy coach that much. If he does, Timmy McSoccerProdigy gets dumped. So there tends to be better quality of coaching and more of a meritocracy in terms of players. (The same could be argued of private vs. public schools, but that's neither here nor there.)

I guess this all boils down to: What would you have Aztex DO, exactly?

[VioletCrown]

one comment...the PDL team used to the only "escape" for local U18, U17 players trying to assert their independence from local youth clubs, not to mention from the incestuous ODP network. The linkup between the Aztex and the Lonestars was a dagger through the heart of future players hoping for a break.

So, what you're saying is that, if a player that's playing for Youth Team X wanted to play some summer ball, with the Lightning, he was able to. But now, with the Aztex, because they have a tie to the Lonestars, our hypothetical player wouldn't be able to because he was playing with Youth Team X?

In other words, you're saying that the Lightning would let players from any Austin youth team play for them, but the Aztex are only letting Lonestars players on the team.

Do I have that right?

[flash2008]

I don't have all the answers...the Aztexs should have remained autonomous and kept the local youth soccer establishment at an arm's distance.

[Blackburn]

I don't have all the answers...the Aztexs should have remained autonomous and kept the local youth soccer establishment at an arm's distance.

Why? Why would the local pro team want to not partner with local youth sides to help the flow of players to its amateur and pro ranks?

Dude, I'm not trying to bait you - I really do want to know what the issue you perceive is.

[flash2008]

Okay, so your beef with the Aztex is that they partnered with the largest local youth soccer club in the area, and you don't like the way that youth club operates?

First off, though I don't necessarily like your tone, this is an issue that could have a negative impact on Aztex and Austin soccer in general, so I do thank you for bringing it up.

That being said, do you have any evidence that the senior management of the club is actually doing anything to hurt local youth soccer? Also, what exactly do you mean by "future players hoping for a break?" My guess is that you have an issue with the way teams are selected by Lonestars. I have no children, did not grow up in Austin, and haven't played youth soccer in 20 years, so I willingly admit my ignorance of how Lonestars work internally. If this is the case, what is your specific issue? How exactly are Lonestars holding players down?

Second, what alternative is/was there exactly FOR Aztex? If you're a new pro team in town, especially one put together as quickly as this one, to whom else would you turn? If you're right about the politics of the situation (and bear in mind, I'm not saying you are or are not), then what do you want Aztex to do? Start an entirely new youth apparatus from scratch? That takes a lot of time and effort, which, at the moment, are more properly directed at getting the clubs set up. In a few years, once the USL-1 and W-league teams come on-line, maybe the Aztex will have the bandwidth to set up a Super Y-League team, and even younger squads. Then though, who do you get to coach? You seem to dislike most of the folks associated with the biggest program in the area. Do you want all the coaches hired from outside of Austin? Doesn't that strike you at all as some overkill?

The comment has been made by VioletCrown in another thread that youth soccer politics have held the sport back in this country. That may well be. In England (which I'm most familiar with), most of the extremely promising players get snapped up by academies run by professional teams. That does tend to remove the parental feelings from the mix - Joe McSoccerParent can't browbeat an academy coach that much. If he does, Timmy McSoccerProdigy gets dumped. So there tends to be better quality of coaching and more of a meritocracy in terms of players. (The same could be argued of private vs. public schools, but that's neither here nor there.)

I guess this all boils down to: What would you have Aztex DO, exactly?
...continuing from my last post...you are right, the European academies take the parents and for profit youth clubs out of the equation. that is the crux of the problem with Aztex's current association with the Lonestars...in addition, the Euro academies focus on player development because that is how they get a return on their investment. the local clubs give lip service to player development and are more focused on winning tournaments (just look at their web sites). the Lonestars, or any other local youth club for that matter, can now control, veto or torpedo any player who doesn't toe the line, just the way they do with ODP.

[Roma_Wolves]

First of all, I think classifying the initial post is a little over the top. I don't think he was saying anything about the Lonestars specifically, and I can understand the mentality that questions the non-profitability of some of these youth soccer clubs with their huge fees, especially the big ones.

Anyway, to the point at hand, seems like kind of a bad deal for the Aztex unless they're actually buying the Lone Stars and controlling the method of training etc. Why limit your talent pool? Austin's not that big. And it's not like they had to do it to guarantee Lone Stars players coming to play for them, b/c why wouldn't they want to?

BTW are we just hypothesizing this so-called exclusivity or is it a stated fact? After all, an association between the two organisations could mean any number of things.

[sokaymckay]

I have no business joining this discussion because I am ignorant of the soccer community here in Austin. So for us ignoramuses, please clarify a couple of things.

1. are there more youth soccer clubs in Austin. One I can think of in particular is the River City Rangers. Where does this leave them?

2. Was it not a long term plan for Aztex to start a soccer academy? If so, was it going to be one to compete with Lonestars and Rangers and whoever else. I'm just not clear on that.

In fact, I have no idea what this thread is about..."oligarchy"?? flash, now I've got to look that up. :D

[Budaztex]

Sokay,
I know there are more clubs around, but I can't name them all. I can tell you that 10 years ago or so, we had the Capitals, the Longhorns, the Flyers, Westlake Chaps, River City Rangers, San Antonio Hammers and a few smaller clubs. Used to be a good rivalry between the Caps and Longhorns (grrrr) at several age groups, also the Caps and the Flyers at several age groups but it was my experience that the Flyers were stronger in the younger ages but not so much at the older age groups, of course there were exceptions to all of these generalizations. I know that there is a club named AU Capitals which is some kind of a hybrid of the old Capitals minus Wolfgang and United South Austin. I think that the Lonestars grew from the Longhorns and some of the other kind of North of the river clubs, but that is just a guess.

[Roma_Wolves]

Sokay,
I know there are more clubs around, but I can't name them all. I can tell you that 10 years ago or so, we had the Capitals, the Longhorns, the Flyers, Westlake Chaps, River City Rangers, San Antonio Hammers and a few smaller clubs. Used to be a good rivalry between the Caps and Longhorns (grrrr) at several age groups, also the Caps and the Flyers at several age groups but it was my experience that the Flyers were stronger in the younger ages but not so much at the older age groups, of course there were exceptions to all of these generalizations. I know that there is a club named AU Capitals which is some kind of a hybrid of the old Capitals minus Wolfgang and United South Austin. I think that the Lonestars grew from the Longhorns and some of the other kind of North of the river clubs, but that is just a guess.

Flyers were bought out by the Lonestars I think.

[willyaddy]

I will weigh in. Played u-10 through u-18 in Austin. So select soccer came about during my playing days. Flash has a very good point about the "for profit" mentality. However as someone who made regional ODP teams despite not have the correct affiliations (read coaches) and then was screwed when pools were selected I can feel your angst. Let me let you know how much further along Austin is today than 15-20 years ago, hell the US in general. We will be rid of the for profit club mentality when the MLS and USL develop further. Currently soccer isn't a sport like baseball, golf, tennis, basketball where it is acceptable for 16-20 years olds to play professionally. They should be in school! I don't agree with that but it is the case. If the structure of the MLS and USL allow for education to continue with wages we will see in the next 15 years a system similar to baseball which is how soccer could become more as you call it independent.

However the current landscape means that big club coaches have more incentive to get kids to college. This is where the soccer loses. In basketball for example you can market and profit from a 16 year old Lebron however if you overlook a another player you might feel the pain when they make it in the NBA. Clubs have nothing to lose as long as they get kids into college. As you know most college soccer teams have 10-15 scholarships if they are lucky at the NCAA DI level to field a 22 man roster, this means some kids have to either pay full tuition or partial. This argument could go on forever but the bottom line is...we must put aside our frustrations for the current situation and focus our energies to helping the Aztex succeed so that they don't feel the need to be attached to a particular club but rather attached to the fans.

FLASH your passion is so right help the cause by focusing on making the environment viable for future FLASHES versus feeling disgruntled.

Quick knowledge reference: Wolf probably favored Beto because he felt guilty for kicking Beto's bro off the old Lonestars team. Wolf played Crawley even though he had shown a history of injury issues. Veselka got to stay on the pitch even though he played no defense. The list of players scorned in the area by Wolf and probably Bobby(he wasn't around when I came up) is probably long and distinguished but both have probably helped many guys too. Out of 18 guys on my club team 15 got scholarships to play college soccer, only about 8 of us played 4 years for whatever reasons. My coach was Milan. Don't lose hope just focus on how we can assist versus how we can complain.

Aztec for Life

[willyaddy]

FLASH thanks for saying what you do! I don't always agree but I appreciate you and Madrid for your particiaption in the conflict/construction/development of AUSTIN SOCCER. That is not to say you are the only independent minds but your passion and persistence is what we need. LONG LIVE FLASH AND MADRID

[mgrayscale]

Currently soccer isn't a sport like baseball, golf, tennis, basketball where it is acceptable for 16-20 years olds to play professionally. They should be in school! I don't agree with that but it is the case.

Willyaddy, this is not a lone opinion. I've actually heard some learned individuals who know the English as well as the American games, and say that if you're a footballer in your teens, who has some really good talent, the worst thing you can do is go to college to play (well, maybe not as bad just quitting, but close). Their opinion is that you need to go overseas or to the Mexican or Latin American leagues to get picked up and play professionally. That's how your skill grows. As a football fan, I absolutely agree with this. However, I'm always nervous when athletes go straight from high school to professional leagues. I think this is why the NBA now requires you to wait at least one year beyond high school before you're eligible for the draft, why the NFL requires 2 years (I believe), and why most baseball players drafted out of high school are encouraged to go to college or the minors first. It's something that I think is cultural to the US; college and education is too important to pass up even if you're a professional athlete.

Interesting double edged sword.

[Roma_Wolves]

There is not an age limit on education. There is unfortunately on being an athlete. If I had a child, and he was serious about being a pro soccer player (and good enough), I'd advise him against college until his soccer career was over.

[VioletCrown]

Willyaddy, this is not a lone opinion. I've actually heard some learned individuals who know the English as well as the American games, and say that if you're a footballer in your teens, who has some really good talent, the worst thing you can do is go to college to play (well, maybe not as bad just quitting, but close). Their opinion is that you need to go overseas or to the Mexican or Latin American leagues to get picked up and play professionally. That's how your skill grows. As a football fan, I absolutely agree with this. However, I'm always nervous when athletes go straight from high school to professional leagues. I think this is why the NBA now requires you to wait at least one year beyond high school before you're eligible for the draft, why the NFL requires 2 years (I believe), and why most baseball players drafted out of high school are encouraged to go to college or the minors first. It's something that I think is cultural to the US; college and education is too important to pass up even if you're a professional athlete.

Interesting double edged sword.

I think one of the reasons for this (the minor leagues/2 years rule -- and the NBA is considering moving to 2 years as well) is that the NBA and NFL pay insane salaries. It's a question of maturity. Not physical so much as mental. It takes a few years to gain the wisdom to deal with money.

While its true that some soccer players also get insane salaries at an early age, the vast majority of those very young players that are getting paid aren't getting the kinds of incomes that NFL/NBA/MLB players get. Similar to the minor league baseball situation.

It's the model that the USL has been trying for, and not really succeeding at because of that 'college/education' mentality.

[mgrayscale]

I think one of the reasons for this (the minor leagues/2 years rule -- and the NBA is considering moving to 2 years as well) is that the NBA and NFL pay insane salaries. It's a question of maturity. Not physical so much as mental. It takes a few years to gain the wisdom to deal with money.

While its true that some soccer players also get insane salaries at an early age, the vast majority of those very young players that are getting paid aren't getting the kinds of incomes that NFL/NBA/MLB players get. Similar to the minor league baseball situation.

It's the model that the USL has been trying for, and not really succeeding at because of that 'college/education' mentality.

Although this may be the case in the US, international football is not the same. Some could argue that Joey Barton's age and sudden wealth contributed to his antics at Newcastle. I also heard the same arguement for some of Rooney's early problems in personality (sorry, "RooniesHairline". In the US, this is obviously not as big of a problem as it is in other areas.