Go on! Ask us!

[Johnnie Monster]

There's plenty of knowledgeable lurkers on BS from Vancouver who can accurately answer most questions re: the Whitecaps, their waterfront SSS proposal, and their pending lease at BC Place.

Fire away!

[the shelts]

Thanks Johnnie...

My question is.....who, exactly, is responsible for the 5 year delay in this downtown stadium?

[Johnnie Monster]

Ultimately, the city of Vancouver has to shoulder the blame.

In 2002, then-mayor Larry Campbell approached Kerfoot about building a stadium in the False Creek flats (aka "Main & Terminal"). The Caps then spent a lot of time and energy scouting out private and city-owned land in that area for potential building sites.

In 2003, Vancouver had a civic election... in the campaign run-up, Larry Campbell's left-leaning party (COPE) was tanking in the polls.

In a move which some pundits said was a blatant attempt to shore up pre-election support from the lefty anti-poverty demographic, the COPE majority on council pushed through a development policy which designated a good chunk of the False Creek flats for social housing, effectively wiping out any chance of future commercial or industrial use. Bye bye stadium!

So in comes new mayor Sam Sullivan and his right-leaning NPA party. They work with the Caps to explore other sites, including the former Empire Stadium grounds, and a few other underdeveloped spots around the city (there aren't many, believe me).

By a stroke of luck, Fairmont Hotels put up its waterfront lands in Gastown for sale... the land has been used as a train storage yard for decades, leased by Fairmont to the rail companies. Kerfoot scoops the waterfront property in 2005 for around $25 million.

So here's the hold-up.... the city planning department says that a stadium on Kerfoot's waterfront land will conflict with the city's planning objectives for the waterfront... they view it as being too close to the heritage buildings in the area, and they question whether a modern stadium can ever fit in with the ancient brick exteriors of the neighbouring properties.

The city COULD have told the planning department to get stuffed and re-write the development policies. After all, those plans were drawn up years earlier, when nobody could have possibly foreseen a billionaire philanthropist materializing out of thin air with a privately funded stadium.

Sadly, the city councillors tucked their tails and hid behind their desks. They had an opportunity to do something bold, and instead sat back and subjected the Caps to a series of mickey mouse public hearings.

The end result of those hearings was that the city instructed the Caps to try swapping some land with the federally operated Vancouver Port Authority, which owns the neighbouring lot to the west. Council's view was that the stadium proposal would be a better fit for the community if it had some distance from the heritage buildings and the vulnerable people living nearby (the poor, the drug addicted, the mentally ill homeless, etc.).

The Caps have been wrangling with the Port now for close to two years, IIRC. The Port, by law, is not permitted to sell land. It can however **trade** land "...but only if it is in the public interest to do so."

The key dispute at hte moment relates to land values.

Kerfoot is offering 300,000 sq. ft in exchange for 100,000 sq. ft of Port property.

The Port says that even with this lopsided deal, Kerfoot's offering is worth several million dollars less than what he wants from the Port. Kerfoot disputes that, and I believe there are efforts to have the values of the two properties assessed independently.

As the clock ticks away, we find ourselves with yet another municipal election coming up in November. Incumbent mayor Sam Sullivan has lost his party's nomination, so it looks like the candidates this time around are the NPA's Peter Ladner (a wealthy publisher, and vocal supporter of the project), and Gregor Robertson of Vision Vancouver, a left leaning provincial MLA who continues to play competitive league soccer today.

Both Ladner and Robertson have issued statements to the stadium supporter groups that if the Port situation can't be worked out, they are open to the idea of re-visiting False Creek yet again, perhaps even reversing the previous land designations imposed by COPE back in 2002.

[Durian Durian]

Probably more likely what you're saying about Ladner and Robertson. Both will likely champion this bid, as the photo-ops come with it, plus it'll add to their "Olympic Mayor" legacy (Gregor will probably be our Premier one day as a result).

I heard something about that big ugly flat of land surrounded by a rent-a-fence near that Chinese distribution warehouse on the borders of Strathcona and Chinatown. Theres that dangerous overpass (for an east side cyclist) that exits there (I forget the street crossing names) as being named ages ago. I posted somewhere else that I'd like this site as Strathcona and Chinatown has great character, proximity to an underdeveloped SkyTrain area (which will likely see an expansion of shopping and entertainment venues as a result of a park there) and Livingston Park may finally get a new pitch for the non-Major Leaguers to kick around on.

Plus, Sounders fans can go straight back to the Greyhound Station next door after they lose :D

[TheScarfMachine]

Would a Vancouver expansion team control BC Palace, and the revenue stream from games held there (Food/Beverage sales, parking, etc)?

[carnifex2005]

Would a Vancouver expansion team control BC Palace, and the revenue stream from games held there (Food/Beverage sales, parking, etc)?

That hasn't been decided. What has been decided is that the Whitecaps will continue to be a non-profit venture when it gets into MLS. Every dollar of profit will go back into growing BC soccer.

[Macksam]

I have heard that Vancouver's youth system is structured somewhat like Ajax's. Is that partially true?

[Johnnie Monster]

You might be referring to a post I recently made about Vancouver's former youth development partnership with Ajax. That was back in the mid 90s when they were called the 86ers.

Vancouver's development model now looks something like this:

Youth Teams > Prospect Teams > Reserve Team > A Squad.

Vancouver hosts seasonal mini camps for little kids U-6 to U-11.

They have three affiliate club organizations (Coastal WFC, Mountain WFC and Surrey WFC), each of which fields U-13 to U-16 teams in the USL Super Y-League.

They also have a 3-year full time residency program for U-16 to U-19. This team is comprised of players in their mid to late teens who live and train at the Whitecaps training centre at Simon Fraser University. They also attend school together at Burnaby Central High.

In year 1 of the residency program, the players compete in the USL's PDL league at home, and compete / train with other clubs in Europe in the off season.

From the Caps website:

"Players have access to sports psychologists, nutritionists and conditioning resources. The facility includes top of the line equipment, fitness centre, artificial turf fields, pool, student housing, and dining facilities.

In year 2, the players take on apprenticeships with clubs in the German Bundesliga. In year 3, the players are transferred to professional club contracts.

The Whitecaps also have an adult prospects team playing in the PCSL (Pacific Coast Soccer League) which is a USASA affiliated 18-team regional league for teams in BC and Washington State.

[Macksam]

You might be referring to a post I recently made about Vancouver's former youth development partnership with Ajax. That was back in the mid 90s when they were called the 86ers.

Vancouver's development model now looks something like this:

Youth Teams > Prospect Teams > Reserve Team > A Squad.

Vancouver hosts seasonal mini camps for little kids U-6 to U-11.

They have three affiliate club organizations (Coastal WFC, Mountain WFC and Surrey WFC), each of which fields U-13 to U-16 teams in the USL Super Y-League.

They also have a 3-year full time residency program for U-16 to U-19. This team is comprised of players in their mid to late teens who live and train at the Whitecaps training centre at Simon Fraser University. They also attend school together at Burnaby Central High.

In year 1 of the residency program, the players compete in the USL's PDL league at home, and compete / train with other clubs in Europe in the off season.

From the Caps website:

"Players have access to sports psychologists, nutritionists and conditioning resources. The facility includes top of the line equipment, fitness centre, artificial turf fields, pool, student housing, and dining facilities.

In year 2, the players take on apprenticeships with clubs in the German Bundesliga. In year 3, the players are transferred to professional club contracts.

The Whitecaps also have an adult prospects team playing in the PCSL (Pacific Coast Soccer League) which is a USASA affiliated 18-team regional league for teams in BC and Washington State.
That's a pretty good set up they have. So I take it the main thing they borrowed from Ajax were training techniques and what not?

[Johnnie Monster]

As I understand it it, back in the 90s there was an actual club to club affiliation with Ajax in which Vancouver and another team in South Africa worked with Ajax staff who were dispatched abroad to establish a network of youth feeder programs ultimately leading back to Amsterdam.

[Macksam]

With the Caps going MLS, wouldn't it be better to scrap the Bundesliga second year thing and just put the players on the senior team?

[Durian Durian]

You'll learn a few things in Germany you wouldn't here.

[Johnnie Monster]

The experience in Germany also allows the Caps to market these guys for transfer fees to Euro teams.

[Macksam]

The experience in Germany also allows the Caps to market these guys for transfer fees to Euro teams.
So in the third year of residency, the Caps have the option of either selling them to the Bundesliga team or bringing them back to Vancouver in order to play for the Caps?

[Johnnie Monster]

The sales options aren't limited to the Bundesliga club they train with, although I would imagine that this is precisely where most will go (if they are good enough for Europe, that is)..

The idea is that the residency players get some time on the pitch in the German leagues, and if they impress scouts from Spain, Scotland, whatever... Caps will sell their rights to whomever wants them, and I'd imagine the German club that trained them will get a share of the proceeds.

If the player isn't good enough for Europe, then yes, expect them to sign with the Caps first team or PCSL reserves..

[Macksam]

The sales options aren't limited to the Bundesliga club they train with, although I would imagine that this is precisely where most will go (if they are good enough for Europe, that is)..

The idea is that the residency players get some time on the pitch in the German leagues, and if they impress scouts from Spain, Scotland, whatever... Caps will sell their rights to whomever wants them, and I'd imagine the German club that trained them will get a share of the proceeds.

If the player isn't good enough for Europe, then yes, expect them to sign with the Caps first team or PCSL reserves..
Have you guys had any success stories yet?

[Johnnie Monster]

The first batch of players are in year one right now, going on year two. Too early to tell.

[BenficaFan15]

Now, completely separate topic, is it at all possible, ever, that the proposed Vancouver MLS bid would have a stadium with a grass surface as opposed to the Fieldturf like the one in Toronto?

[Durian Durian]

There is talk about the same style of pitch that they used in Moscow for Champions League final, patches of sod laid down for match days. I think whatever happens there will be discussed at length, it would be nice to have grass in there.

[whiteisthecolour]

When Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium is built, it will be all-grass.

Assuming the Caps get in 2011, they will play in BC Place Stadium. At the moment, BCP has fieldturf down. However, the stadium is slated for major renovation that will transform it from a dome (a la Metrodome in Minneapolis) to a much more Euro looking "donut-roof" stadium with retractable roof (and the artist renderings make it look like Kommerzbank Stadium in Germany). Since the renos will be done before 2011, and since the stadium will have a retractable roof, AND since Vancouver has a temperate climate - I believe (and hope) it will be grass.

So, it looks like natural grass either way.