(R) VfB Stuttgart Thread 08/09

[Rainer24]

Wholeheartedly agree with that final paragraph. We need one of the two guys to step up and make that second forward slot his. Cacau did that and was scoring regularly for us the year we won the league and no one has done it since. If not the, it is at least a major diffference.

[Rainer24]

OK, aside from today's match and Cottbus the upcoming schedule is a killer, so three points from today's match are an absolute must! Here's hoping we get it done.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Yup!

We need to win today! I'm in Stuttgart for the weekend and i'm leaving to the stadium in 15 minutes. The side has only lost once in the last 23 times i've been to the stadium, so that's a good omen :)

Tasci is fit again so i'm guessing we'll see Osorio move back to the right, and Delpierre and Tasci will partner each other in central defence. In midfield, Lanig will remain over hilbert, also I think Elson should stay in the creator role even though Simak is fit again. Finally there's a question mark over Hitzlsperger, who might be dropped for this game.

In attack, question over who partners Gomez.

Either way we need to win! I'm confident we will :)

[Rainer24]

I'll put it about as kindly as I can - that was one of the worst performances I have ever seen from us. At home against a very bad team and we never looked at all like we were going to win it. Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic. We are going nowhere very fast this year.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Yup. You're right. In fact, it was so bad I couldn't even bother to comment on it until today, just didn't have the motivation. It was the last 'certain-win', the last 'must-have-3-points' game of the year, and the side blew it. Well ********ing done. Imagine, even with this mediocre season, if the team had just won the two home games, against Koeln and Bielefeld that everyone expected them to win, they'd be in a European place and no one would be bitching. This however truly sucks. And it would take something huge for this side to be able to compete for anywhere in the top 6 this season. Right now we shouldn't even discuss this possibility, it's just not realistic with these performances.


Changes were made this game, they didn't work out. Hitzlsperger was bench, didn't help at all.

The worst part is I wouldn't say the team put in no effort. I think they really tried. They just weren't good enough. Which is really sad.

And slowly a lot of questions are starting to rise surrounding Veh. I think he currently has about 45% support amongst fans, and 55% believe he should probably go. Now I love the guy for that one magical season, and I remember I wanted him out in 06, he stayed and we became champion out of nowhere. So I don't want to comment and i'm not gonna be the type to start trying to insist he should leave, as I was with Sammer. However, we've got game left still to the winter break, and they are gonna be TOUGH. Away to Wolfsburg, who have played much better than us this season and who beat us 3-0 there last year, then home matches against Schalke and Bayern. At this rate we're looking the massive underdog for all these games, and if aren't able to salvage some positive results up to winter, I suspect veh will have toleave over the break. What I hope is that the team will somehow improve and return to form, get some good results in these games, and leave some cautious optimism for the rueckrunde. But I don't see that happening at the moment. And no doubt, if we don't get something out of all these games, we could find ourselves in a very dire position over christmas.

It's really a shame how the side deteriorated since the title season. And you just wonder why. I don't have the answers, more alarmingly Heldt and Veh also don't seem to have the answers. :(

[Rainer24]

It's looking more and more like we had more than a few guys have the season of their career in 06-07, with the fact that they all coincided largely responsible for our winning.

We just aren't good enough in lots of places. Neither Magnin nor Boka has been nearly as good as they were in the championship season, and our striker play has amounted to whatever we are going to get out of Mario on a given day and that's about it. I don't know what Hilbert's position is, and nobody else seems to either, but I do know that we don't have a single true winger on the team that is worth a damn.

We are probably going to have € 20 million or so to spend next summer. Will we actually spend it? If so, who can we get for it? Will it even matter? I can't remember signing a player I was truly excited about.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Player Ratings(Kicker was much harsher than me, maybe I just saw things the wrong way in the stadium):

Jens Lehmann: Kicker Rating: 4 (13 games played, 3.04 avg. rating)
My Rating: 2.5 - Our Best

Ricardo Osorio: KR: 4 (8 games played, 3.56 avg. rating)
MR: 4

Serdar Tasci: KR: 3 (12 games played, 3.25 avg. rating)
MR: 3

Matthieu Delpierre: KR: 3
MR: 3 (11 games palyed, 3.45 avg. rating)

Ludovic Magnin: KR: 4.5 (7 games played, 6 as starter, 4.33 avg.)
MR: 4

Pavel Pardo: KR: 4 (8 games played, 3.19 avg.)
MR: 4

Sami Khedira: KR: 4.5 (11 games played, 8 as starter, 3.39 avg.)
MR: 4.5

Martin Lanig: KR: 4 (10 games played, 6 as starter, 3.50 avg.)
MR: 3

Elson: KR: 4 (5 games played, 2 as starter, 3.63 avg.)
MR: 3.5

Mario Gomez: KR: 5 (13 games played, 3.54 avg.)
MR: 4.5

Cacau: KR: 5 (9 games played, 8 as starter, 3.81 avg.)
MR: 3.5

SUBS:

Roberto Hilbert: KR: 4 (11 games played, 9 as starter, 3.86 avg.)
MR: 3.5

Arthur Boka: KR: No Rating (12 games played, 10 as starter, 4.00 avg.)
MR: 3

Ciprian Marica: KR: NR (10 games played, 4 as starter, 4.30 avg.)
MR: NR

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

We just aren't good enough in lots of places. Neither Magnin nor Boka has been nearly as good as they were in the championship season,

I agree. Leftback has been a very weak position for us this season, both have played quite few times and neither of them have been any good. I like Magnin alot but he's had a terrible season thus far. As for Boka, i've never properly rated him as he's so small, often makes mistakes, looks awkward in the air, has a lack of concentration at times and seems error-prone. However, despite all this, he's probably been better than Magnin so far this season. Whatever - I think we might need to sell one of them in the winter break, or latest at the end of the year, and hopefully keep the other and buy a new, strong leftback to become the starter.


and our striker play has amounted to whatever we are going to get out of Mario on a given day and that's about it.

So true. Cacau plays alright but simply doesn't score enough. As for Marica, no doubt that as our club's most expensive buy ever he's been a massive flop. However, I do somewhat rate him. I was impressed by him in the pre-season and the Intertoto cup games, but once Cacau was fit he became starter again and Marica has been on the bench. And I don't consider him coming on for the last 15 minutes every game to be a fair chance. I'd give him a new run in the first 11. I think he can still amount to a good striker, it's just too bad he hasn't been able to show it so far.

Also, Fischer hasn't been given the chance I would've hoped for this season. There are rumours he'll be loaned out or sold. If he's sold out i'll explode. This guy has been tipped as the club's biggest talent of the last 4 years or so. A loan could work well, though not if management sells him like they sold Gentner. But a full sale? That would be pathetic. We can't let this guy slip away so early on.

I don't know what Hilbert's position is, and nobody else seems to either, but I do know that we don't have a single true winger on the team that is worth a damn.

Hilbert, when he is on form, is a very very good winger. He just hasn't been on form all season, and that's a huge shame. I'd keep him, he's young and he can find his form again. But there's no doubt he's been a massive letdown this season. Lanig as a winger meanwhile, is ok, he's solid, but he wasn't an inspirational purchase and he isn't an inspirational player. he's a good suad player, but nothing more.


We are probably going to have € 20 million or so to spend next summer. Will we actually spend it? If so, who can we get for it? Will it even matter? I can't remember signing a player I was truly excited about.

Dunno, I was excited this summer about Lehmann, and he's been our best player this season so far.

I was also very excited about Boulahrouz, but he's been injured and unlucky so far most of this season. But yeah, the majority of our signings aren't really inspirational.

I'd question whether we even have any money to spend, but I guess once Gomez is sold, as surely he won't stay if we continue to play like this, then we'll be able to spend something on someone But we'll see.

[Rainer24]

I'd question whether we even have any money to spend, but I guess once Gomez is sold, as surely he won't stay if we continue to play like this, then we'll be able to spend something on someone But we'll see.


Yeah, that's the money I am talking about. I can't believe that he would be very happy right now and more than likely wants to leave if this is how things are going to go for us, and I can't blame him much.

[footyfan1]

It's looking more and more like we had more than a few guys have the season of their career in 06-07, with the fact that they all coincided largely responsible for our winning.

A dream season. When I suggested that, some acted like I was a crazy man......

You guys and FCN both had one that year. At least you haven't fallen nearly as far as they have.

And who knows??

You guys got hotter than hell in the second half of that season.


Maybe...........

[Rainer24]

A dream season. When I suggested that, some acted like I was a crazy man......

You guys and FCN both had one that year. At least you haven't fallen nearly as far as they have.

And who knows??

You guys got hotter than hell in the second half of that season.


Maybe...........



It's so puzzling, because we weren't just scraping by with gritty performances or something and things just happened to go our way. We were playing wonderful ball and putting goals past anyone you put in front of us, and since then things have just not been the same. Meira experienced a very quick fall from grace and our attack has not been good enough to compensate for a sometimes leaky defense. Arrrggghhh.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Now I wouldn't go blaming Meira, for all his inconsistency and red cards and whatever, he was still one of our better players last season ;)

Although central defence has been our only proper good spot this season. Tasci is one of the few players to have truly improved, he's been, with Lehmann, our best player this season. And Delpierre is obviously good. Even Boulahrouz has spent much of the time on the bench, even when fit.

But yeah, though I see what Keith means, it's also confusing in that, as you said Rainer, we weren't getting lucky that season, we played GREAT football. Hildebrand was one of the best keepers in the league that year, Meira, Delpierre and Tasci were amongst the best defenders, Magnin played the best half season of his caree, Hitzlsperger really found his form, Pardo was spectacular, Hilbert too, Gomez was among the best strikers in the league(still is...), Cacau was great.

And these players were at a stage in their career where you'd expect them to progress further, with so many young guys. What has happened instead, I never expected...

[benztown]

I think it's mostly psychological. We should be better. I mean the players are better than what they show us at the moment.

I mean think about it:

Lehmann is definitely one of the better keepers in the league. Tasci and Delpierre are a gret CD duo. Boka and Magnin both showed in the past that they're great choices for left full back. Osorio on the right has also been good in the past. In def. midfield, we can play Pardo, Khedira and Hitzlsperger, each of which has been proven on every stage. On the flanks there's Hilbert who can definitely play better than he showed so far this season. On the left Hitz can be appointed or Lanig, neither of which has been up to their best. Offensively, there are still Bastürk (okay, he's mostly injured) and Simak and our strikers are theoretically awesome as well.

So there are just two options left. Either our player have been totally unprepared (unlikely since Veh has shown that he can do this) or it's psychological.

Granted, the multiple change of tactics didn't help. I think Veh made a mistake there. We should stick to one tactic and have one alteration. But still...

We need a couple of wins against high profile opponents so that our players finally realize that they can beat anyone.

For example, in our championship winning season, I think the most important game was the 2-0 victory against Bayern. There our players realized that they could achieve something special. From there on it was only a matter of psychology. We knew that we could win it all, so we came back many times, something that's completely lacking this season so far.

[panicfc]

I'm going with psychological.

When players are at a non-Bayern club, the dream is win the title. Most of these guys have done it. They have accomplished their goal for Stuttgart, and winning it again is harder than winning it the first time (or so they say).

They have shown they can do it, but most are now in the national team picture, and winning a title, making the national team, driving a Porsche... all that is left is sex with supermodels.

;)

[Rainer24]

Now I wouldn't go blaming Meira, for all his inconsistency and red cards and whatever, he was still one of our better players last season ;)

Although central defence has been our only proper good spot this season. Tasci is one of the few players to have truly improved, he's been, with Lehmann, our best player this season. And Delpierre is obviously good. Even Boulahrouz has spent much of the time on the bench, even when fit.

But yeah, though I see what Keith means, it's also confusing in that, as you said Rainer, we weren't getting lucky that season, we played GREAT football. Hildebrand was one of the best keepers in the league that year, Meira, Delpierre and Tasci were amongst the best defenders, Magnin played the best half season of his caree, Hitzlsperger really found his form, Pardo was spectacular, Hilbert too, Gomez was among the best strikers in the league(still is...), Cacau was great.

And these players were at a stage in their career where you'd expect them to progress further, with so many young guys. What has happened instead, I never expected...


I'm not blaming Meira, I was just pointing out how we went from captain to on the plane to turkey within a year, and it wasn't really a pretty breakup.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Ah well, what can we do, Meira had wanted to leave numerous times, and obviously Galatasaray offered more money than we can. It's too bad. But I still rate him, and i'd applaud him if we ever played him again. And let us not forget he was our title-winning captain :)

And right now nothing but memories can keep us hopeful it seems...

[benztown]

And right now nothing but memories can keep us hopeful it seems...

Sounds familiar...

[footyfan1]

And right now nothing but memories can keep us hopeful it seems...

Dude, as a BVB fan I know that feeling. I really know that feeling. :(

[Rainer24]

Ah well, what can we do, Meira had wanted to leave numerous times, and obviously Galatasaray offered more money than we can. It's too bad. But I still rate him, and i'd applaud him if we ever played him again. And let us not forget he was our title-winning captain :)

And right now nothing but memories can keep us hopeful it seems...


I don't bear him any ill feelings. I think it is just evidence that the club has lost a few key players without adding anything of note. Pardo was great for us that year, but he was old then and he is even older now and the performances just weren't what they once were. We could hit a hot streak a reel off four wins in a row, and then nobody is complaining. You never know, but I just don't feel like that is going to happen with this team right now.

[frasermc]

i'd applaud him if we ever played him again. And let us not forget he was our title-winning captain.

a refreshing attitude for a football fan to have in this day and age regarding former players playing against the team you support.

i wish it would catch on again.