View Full Version : Change Olympic Football Format?
eainterplay
24 Jul 2008, 12:52 PM
With all the bickering and trouble getting players released should the Olympics just change the format to pure U-23 tournament. The overage selections allows teams to possibly bring their top players, but it seems more like a gimmick anyway. This way it would be like a U23 World Cup every 4 years.
Jwaksman
24 Jul 2008, 01:10 PM
I agree that they should get rid of the over-age thing. Although my beef with it is that different teams use the over-age thing for different purposes. It seems to me that you have a few different reasons that teams use the overage spots:
1) To win. They put in some of their top national team players in an effort to win the olympics. Their ability to do this is then affected by which teams have WCQ coming up and which do not (CONCACAF has a qualifying game during the olympics, for example)
2) To honor a player who played for the national team their whole career and never got into the olympics. This is where you occasionally see guys who are well into their 30s and are no longer top national team players going to the olympic team just for the experience
3) To develop players who are 24-26 years old and not yet getting much or any playing time with the national team. It then makes the Olympics a competition for them to show their stuff against slightly lower competition, in an effort to develop them for future national team performances.
The problem then becomes that different teams show different ability levels based on which of the above three reasonings they are using for selecting players. If the point of the Tournament is for it to be about the young U-23 players, then make it 100% U-23 players, and end the older players.
Eric B
24 Jul 2008, 01:56 PM
The biggest problem with this year's Olympics is that they are being held so late in the summer and so close to the start of the European clubs seasons. 2012 shouldn't be as bad since that will be done by August 12....
tomwilhelm
24 Jul 2008, 02:15 PM
The problem then becomes that different teams show different ability levels based on which of the above three reasonings they are using for selecting players.
Agreed. While there are some great reasons to have overage players, it does seem to unbalance things unnecessarily.
If the point of the Tournament is for it to be about the young U-23 players, then make it 100% U-23 players, and end the older players.
The problem with this is that it doesn't solve the actual problem. The big dust up this time around isn't the overage players getting told they can't go, it's the U-23s being told that.
I know Blatter put his foot down on it yesterday, but that doesn't always make it so, if you know what I mean...
Jwaksman
24 Jul 2008, 02:22 PM
Agreed. While there are some great reasons to have overage players, it does seem to unbalance things unnecessarily.
The problem with this is that it doesn't solve the actual problem. The big dust up this time around isn't the overage players getting told they can't go, it's the U-23s being told that.
I know Blatter put his foot down on it yesterday, but that doesn't always make it so, if you know what I mean...
Yeah, I know that the Bundesliga is holdings its players back among other leagues. This is a problem, although I'm not sure what FIFA can do about it. The olympics dates are not going to be chosen with soccer in mind, since soccer is a minor sport as far as the olympics are concerned (track & field, swimming and gymnastics all get higher ratings, among other things). And since this is not a FIFA Tournament, I don't see what FIFA can really do about it.
I don't see an obvious solution here.
tomwilhelm
24 Jul 2008, 02:28 PM
I don't see an obvious solution here.
Make it a FIFA tournament? (not that THAT doesn't have issues, but... ;))
Jwaksman
24 Jul 2008, 02:43 PM
Make it a FIFA tournament? (not that THAT doesn't have issues, but... ;))
I'm sure you were being facetious, but for posters who might miss it... no way would the IOC give up this Tournament. FIFA could chose to hold their own U-23 tournament every n number of years, but they couldn't coordinate with the IOC.
BocaFan
24 Jul 2008, 03:04 PM
The biggest problem with this year's Olympics is that they are being held so late in the summer and so close to the start of the European clubs seasons. 2012 shouldn't be as bad since that will be done by August 12....
The "late" olympics this year is nothing unusual though. The previous two olympics actually started even later.
tomwilhelm
24 Jul 2008, 03:47 PM
I'm sure you were being facetious, but for posters who might miss it... no way would the IOC give up this Tournament. FIFA could chose to hold their own U-23 tournament every n number of years, but they couldn't coordinate with the IOC.
I was definitely being facetious. Between the IOC and FIFA, there would be WAY too many hands in the cookie jar...
vancity eagle
25 Jul 2008, 11:33 AM
well this tournament is really uneven. Many teams aren't even bringing overage players. (Japan, Cameroon, Ivory Coast)
some teams can't even get their best U23 players.
Many teams are bringing overage players who aren't really relevant to the national team, and are probably no better than the U23 players. (Holland)
Some teams look pretty close to being full national squads. ( Argentina )
I think Argentina and possibly Brazil are the only 2 teams who are really seriously benefitting from the overage rule. Ironically these are the 2 teams who probably dont need the extra help.
golden_balls999
25 Jul 2008, 12:21 PM
Maybe football just shouldn't be an olympic sport...
Jwaksman
25 Jul 2008, 12:58 PM
Maybe football just shouldn't be an olympic sport...
If ballroom dancing and luge are olympic sports, soccer definitely should be in there.
The only question is: what should olympic soccer be about? Do you want it to be a kind of U-23 World Cup? If that's the case, why not take a lead from the track & field. Track & field has three different types of world championships. They have the olympics every fourth year. They have a World Championships every odd-numbered year. And every off-Olympics even-numbered year has a "World Cup" event. The World Championships are basically the same style as the Olympics (only with about 1/20th the worldwide tv ratings), while the World Cup is slightly different (nations can only send one athlete per event, for example).
So, soccer can have the same sort of thing. The Olympics would be the U-23 World Cup every-fourth year, and overage players would be forbidden. A few players wouldn't be able to get off their club teams, but that is a far lesser problem than what we have now with different teams using their overage spots for far different purposes. Then you could have a FIFA-run U-23 World Cup on non-olympic even numbered years.
Of course, this would put a U-23 world cup up against the real World Cup, which some people might not want. But national associations are used to dealing with dueling competitions. The United States, for example, will likely be in four international soccer competitions next summer (Gold Cup, Confederations Cup, U-17 World Cup, U-20 World Cup). Teams simply make a judgment on which competitions they will focus on, and assign their players accordingly. There's no reason that it couldn't work.
wufc
25 Jul 2008, 05:36 PM
How about make it amateurs only?
tomwilhelm
25 Jul 2008, 05:41 PM
How about make it amateurs only?
Why? So we can watch U15s?
The Olympics = Amateurs thing died a long time ago.
Maybe football just shouldn't be an olympic sport...
That's my view. Football already has the biggest single-sport event in the world (WC) plus age-limited WCs. Additionally, it has strong regional championships in most parts of the world. The Olympic competition really doesn't serve any additional purpose.
Jwaksman
25 Jul 2008, 05:51 PM
That's my view. Football already has the biggest single-sport event in the world (WC) plus age-limited WCs. Additionally, it has strong regional championships in most parts of the world. The Olympic competition really doesn't serve any additional purpose.
Well, the olympics is not going to get rid of the sport, and FIFA can't do anything about it.
Well, the olympics is not going to get rid of the sport, and FIFA can't do anything about it.
Sure it can. All it has to do is not require teams to release players for the tournament and it will soon die a death.
Jwaksman
25 Jul 2008, 06:00 PM
Sure it can. All it has to do is not require teams to release players for the tournament and it will soon die a death.
I'm pretty sure that's already the situation. Not only has the Bundesliga kept its players from going, but individual teams have also made individual demands (for example, my understanding was that Barca was not going to let Ronaldhino go).
Since it's not a FIFA Tournament, FIFA doesn't require that teams release players. But most teams aren't going to keep their players from going.
BocaFan
25 Jul 2008, 06:07 PM
Sure it can. All it has to do is not require teams to release players for the tournament and it will soon die a death.
It has a long way to go before its death considering its currently the most watched event in the olympics.
For me, football is worth keeping in the olympics. The women's tournament is almost as prestigious as the women's World Cup. That's enough reason right there. On the men's side there are other tournaments that are more "mickey-mouse" than the olmpics that I would get rid of first (confederations cup and UEFA u-21 championship come to mind).
Since it's not a FIFA Tournament, FIFA doesn't require that teams release players. But most teams aren't going to keep their players from going.
Clubs are required to release under-23 players. Otherwise Barca would never have let Messi go with important Champions League qualifiers coming-up.
I'm pretty sure that's already the situation. Not only has the Bundesliga kept its players from going, but individual teams have also made individual demands (for example, my understanding was that Barca was not going to let Ronaldhino go).
Since it's not a FIFA Tournament, FIFA doesn't require that teams release players. But most teams aren't going to keep their players from going.
The situation is ambiguous in that FIFA has stated U23 players must be released, but overage players don't have to be. This despite the games not being on the international calendar.
http://www.dw3d.de/dw/article/0,2144,3508986,00.html