Sounders FC and Supporter Groups

[FuzzyForeigner]

So this week Bart Wiley is out in Toronto for the MLS All Star Game. I was told that he will be sitting with the north end supporter groups in toronto for the Nutrilite Canadian Championship. He is trying to gage how things were done there to get such a large supporter group. I am unclear as to whether he will actually be standing with the supporters or meeting with them during the game.

Anyway, I figured I would share this as it is promising. I think that once he gets back from the trip on Friday, ECS should talk to him about what he saw at the game at starfire on Saturday.

What would you guys think the ECS needs to do to grow and fill the GA seating areas? I am curious and would be happy to augment the many ideas ECS have with your ideas and bring them tot he front office. Please take this thread seriously-no bashing-just constructive discussion for promotional ideas or items for the FO to fill the South End.

[Ciscokid]

So this week Bart Wiley is out in Toronto for the MLS All Star Game. I was told that he will be sitting with the north end supporter groups in toronto for the Nutrilite Canadian Championship. He is trying to gage how things were done there to get such a large supporter group. I am unclear as to whether he will actually be standing with the supporters or meeting with them during the game.

Anyway, I figured I would share this as it is promising. I think that once he gets back from the trip on Friday, ECS should talk to him about what he saw at the game at starfire on Saturday.

What would you guys think the ECS needs to do to grow and fill the GA seating areas? I am curious and would be happy to augment the many ideas ECS have with your ideas and bring them tot he front office. Please take this thread seriously-no bashing-just constructive discussion for promotional ideas or items for the FO to fill the South End.


I went to Columbus Crew Game last week when there on business and saw one of the major disconnects between supporter groups and fans. The Crew supporters were frankly intimdating with their hooliganesque poseur appearance and their somewhat profane chants. I sat with embarrassed parents as the supporters chanted "You SUCK A**HOLE" everytime the opposing keeper performed a goal kick.

I mention this because I think one of the major challenges for ECS will be to find a way to bridge the gap between the sort of euro-chant supporter style, and the fact that the Sounders FC will be sold as a family experience.

When my kids were younger we tried to get involved with ECS at a couple of games, and we just weren't comfortable. Not a knock on you guys personally but I've always felt that sort of fanatical approach and the intensity of the emotion expressed, scares kids and intimidates parents.

The last time the Portland TA was here, with their Middle finger salutes and angry profane chants, you saw some families relocating away from them.

You cannot have a true English or Euro style futbol experience in Seattle. The crowds aren't the same. I think finding ways to get kids involved...singing supportive songs that kids at least know the tune of is important. (YMCA works at M's games, although I wouldn't use it at soccer matches). Maybe even developing a Junior ECS group that kids could join and do special kid-specific chants under the tutelage of ECS. THAT would be a way to engage families and have parents view you in a more favorable light.

Bottom line, a vast majority of the crowd will be either suburban families or soccer hipsters "too cool" to be part of ECS. You're going to have to win them over by walking a fine line between who you guys want to be and what you need to do to fully engage a seattle crowd.

Oh, unrelated note..the streamers stuff during opponent corner kicks at Crew game is lame and anti productive. Most fans who weren't in supporter section clucked about how silly and childish it seemed, at least in my section. I say save the streamers for goal celebrations or in protest to terrible calls.

All that said, I wish you guys luck. It may not be my cup of tea, but I respect your passion for our team and the sport.

[Z010 Union]

From a non-PNW based supporter, I feel like supporter's sections jobs are to support the team with appearance and voice, not to worry about little Johnny and little Jane. Their parents are responsible for them. In DC, there are supporters on one side and most of the other side is family safe with the exception of La Norte.

Locally, one of the ways to make blending of both supporters and families is simple, full disclosure by the team. The team should disclose to the ticket buying public that the supporter's section(s) are PG-13 and that the surrounding section's tickets are purchased at their own risk. There are plenty of other seats throughout the stadium and cities like DC, Chicago, and Houston have allayed the concerns of the family friendly entertainment seeking public and the supporters.

Hopefully, this is also done successfully in Seattle and Philadelphia. All signs in Philadelphia point to yes as the Sons of Ben will have their own entrance and 2,000 seat section.

[WestSeattle]

I know this might create a backlash of hateful rebuttal, but I have to say something:

Oh goodness, how easily we want to excuse acting like an ass at a soccer game. Screw Columbus, those people sound like complete jerks, I'd hate to see Seattle descend to that kind of idiocy.

Look folks, if you get drunk and make a buffoon of yourself by constantly being profane, rude and intimidating to others (especially ones that don't knuckle down into the methodologies of your mob), then you are a thug and I have no respect for you. And if you get particularly abusive to me, I have no problems getting you thrown out of the game. Rampant abuse and out of control drunken behavior is not acceptable anymore, we don't live in the 70's anymore, and soccer is not one giant college fraternity.

There are shades of gray here folks, and there is a difference between being loud, supportive and creating atmopshere, and being a complete moron. Fun is fun, loud is fun, songs are fun and profanity happens, but to go out of your way to be overly profane, and then goosestep this behavior in unison, and then scoff, exclude and initimdate those who don't comply or dare to complain about it, this makes you an ass in my humble, and utterly insignificant opinion.

Soccer is a social event, not an anti-social event. If you go to a soccer game to be anti-social, to gather like pack rats, and to pound your chest with mob rules, I humbly suggest a Motorhead show, or a Horton Heat show. Both are awesome experiences, and both are much better suited for beta-male herding than a soccer match.

A little profanity is understandable. We're all human. "You're a bastard referee", for example, is a song only the most tight-sphincter parent could ever quibble with. But other songs, go way, way over the line, and if they are repeated endlessly in a sophomoric game of "look what we can say and theres nothing you can do about it" - grow up.

What I really loathe though is when someone dares to suggest certain behavior should probably cease, how some suppporter groups "gang up" on such fans, ostracize them, belittle them and treat them with disrespect. Respect your fellow fan, regardless of what scarf they where, and this is particularly true when drunken young men, start to mock, threaten or intimidate older fans, and women and/or children. Behavior I have witnessed before (in Toronto actually) and it is ugly beyond words.

Look, if an elderly gentleman bought a ticket in your section by accident, and he asks you to sit down, so he can see, what man on Earth wouldn't respect an elder and accomodate him? Do you deny seats to old ladies on the bus as well? Come on, be a man, and act accordingly. Manhood and selfish arrogance do not equate, indeed, at many times they are polar opposites. A lesson a small minority of drunk soccer fans, desperately need to learn.

Just because you are bigger, and attached to bigger pack, does not, and never will excuse you from treating a fellow human being like they are inferior, nor does it permit you to abuse them. And while we're at it, throwing crap at opposing players, is pretty juvenile too, and embarasses our city.

I mention all of this, because I know there are elements of this behavior in the Toronto scene, and it sounds like there are elements of this in Columbus. It is my hope, the groups here never descend to that embarassing level.

I appreciate certain sections should be designated "adult only", but even those designations should not excuse rude, ignorant behavior, and I refuse to accept there are conditions whereby it is okay to be racist, sexist or abusive to other fans.

It is not okay, it never was and it never will be. This illusion that this is how you are "supposed" to act at a soccer game is a lie. It has always been a lie, and it perpetuated by people who use soccer as an excuse to act and function more like a gang member, than an actual fan.

Supporter's groups are great, and they make the game special, but you are are not excused from decent human behavior, just because you belong to a club, and have hundreds of people who will back you up on any confrontation. A good group is social, open, friendly and not anti-social, exclusive, abusive and political. I am not talking Polly-Anna here, but mutual respect for all fans in the stadium, is a prerequisite.

FACT: Soccer + alcohol is not a license to be an abusive and intolerant jerk. I don't care what scarf you wear.

I point no fingers at anyone as I say this, and I have no knowledge of supporter groups here in Seattle crossing the line. But I am wary of phrases tossed around like the one Bryan just tossed out. Sure, on the surface it seems reasonable, but the overly zealous can seize a phrase like that and justify some really ugly behavior out of it.

I know Bryan's comment was innocent, but I've seen soccer groups turn ugly - fast, and I'd hate to see it happen here, and it can begin with a simple justification that Bryan stated, getting taken to the extreme.

As for recruitment...

If I were in a supporter group, and I wanted more active recruitment, I'd approach it by isolating first, what kind of fans you want in your group. If you want to be a "all are welcome" kind of group, I'd ditch the adolescent attitude about rude, abusive and profane behavior immediately. You can't have it both ways, either you are a young-beta male club, or you are a family club. Pick one, stick with it.

Family groups recruit best by joining amateur soccer leagues and recruiting within them, recruiting with pamphlets distributed before the game, and with a viral campaign on MySpace/Facebook and the like.

If you want a hard core group, that herds together and drinks hard, I respect that too, but within the basic guideline of mutual respect for other groups and fans. Hard core groups, recruit best in pubs, and by organizing pub crawls before matches. Groups like this are welcome additions to any soccer game, if they know where the line is between "fun" and "abuse", and if they police their own kind, in terms of how much alcohol fellow members consume. A good hard core does all those things.

I know every time I suggest human decency is not something you get to throw away, just because you're at a soccer game, someone takes massive offense. I recognize my opinion here, goes against the grain of some of you, my apologies for that, but this is how I feel.

I look forward to seeing some of you organize, coalesce and form distinctly Seattle-style clubs. And hopefully we can avoid the bad habits of other towns such as: throwing crap on the pitch, heaping verbal abuse at rival groups and independent fans, and constantly singing profane songs screamed into everyone's ear, whether we like it or not.

[ness77]

Tl;dnr

[koolkeith13]

We have been here before sooooo many times.

[scotch17]

Tl;dnr

this

[antezma]

1. Recruit at USL Sounders games through one-on-one contact. Consider prospective members as "shy types" who might not wander into the group on their own, but when approached by someone who says, "here's a flag to wave, come stand with us tonight" you might find more takers. I notice that there are many extra flags and banners lying around during the game that could loaned to people for the game. You could even take a few people from the group (who preferably elect not to drink for the particular game) who go into other sections of the stadium to pass out loaner flags for deserving candidates to wave. I've often wondered also why there hasn't been an effort to teach one or two harmless songs to non-ECS sections. I'm sure plenty of people would like to join in if they knew the words, and they weren't profane. ECS can still have their PG-13 stuff they do on their own, but intermittently the rest of the fans could get involved less controversial, but still supportive, songs. It's sort of how I envision 2009 - The South End going non-stop the whole game, with the rest of the stadium (hopefully the whole thing) participating in easy to learn, easy to coordinate, family-friendly yet still intense, chants and songs. A perfect chant for the whole crowd is the Seattle Sounders call and response chant. If you send a few capos around to explain how it goes to a few sections and then lead them and the ECS in it, it would be a huge success. Bill the Beer Man did it all by himself in the Kingdome.

2. Attend TV showings of European matches this fall/winter at pubs and recruit. Do so with the understanding that you'll have to resist getting into arguments with those who will claim you aren't authentic. Don't let anyone bait you, just get the message out and move on.

3. Develop a relationship with the bigger, more successful supporters groups in MLS such as those in Toronto, Chicago, DC, and I'd include Philly as well. Consider asking the FO to sponsor trips to other MLS cities to meet up with these supporters groups, but at the very least attend the supporters summit prior to MLS Cup (I'm assuming they still do that). These guys have done a lot of the dirty work through trial and error and I'm sure would have a lot of good advice. They'll eventually have to "hate" us, but they'll recognize the importance of having a successful supporters section.

[Z010 Union]

What I really loathe though is when someone dares to suggest certain behavior should probably cease, how some suppporter groups "gang up" on such fans, ostracize them, belittle them and treat them with disrespect. Respect your fellow fan, regardless of what scarf they where, and this is particularly true when drunken young men, start to mock, threaten or intimidate older fans, and women and/or children. Behavior I have witnessed before (in Toronto actually) and it is ugly beyond words.

I agree to an extent, but I have seen this at every sporting event I have ever been to. Eagles, Phillies, Flyers, Sixers. Sports are very tribal, that's the thrill for many people. To win and for the others to lose. A mass feeling of superiority and joy because someone wearing the name of your city beat, humbled, or humiliated another.

Look, if an elderly gentleman bought a ticket in your section by accident, and he asks you to sit down, so he can see, what man on Earth wouldn't respect an elder and accomodate him? Do you deny seats to old ladies on the bus as well? Come on, be a man, and act accordingly. Manhood and selfish arrogance do not equate, indeed, at many times they are polar opposites. A lesson a small minority of drunk soccer fans, desperately need to learn.

Silly hyperbole. Any decent fan would help him back up to the usher and request that he be seated in a section where he can view the game. I would never expect 500-2000 supporters to sit down because one stupid TicketMaster agent sold a ticket in the wrong section. I would expect the team to do the right thing and re-seat the gentlemen (or lady, or family). It has nothing to do with being a man, it has to do with equal rights as a consumer. I bought a ticket for as much as him, what gives him a right to tell me what to do? In my opinion, if I was the only one standing in a section of seated spectators I would feel the same way and hope that the team would kindly move me to an area where I could enjoy the game, and the spectators in my originally ticketed section could enjoy the game.

Your trolling with that be a man comment and you know it. You are using passive aggressive bullying techniques to achieve your goal.

Just because you are bigger, and attached to bigger pack, does not, and never will excuse you from treating a fellow human being like they are inferior, nor does it permit you to abuse them. And while we're at it, throwing crap at opposing players, is pretty juvenile too, and embarasses our city.

Agreed

And hopefully avoid heaping verbal abuse at rival groups

Come on, how much fun is it for you as Seattle fans to remind Portland etc about your team's and/or stadium and/or fans' superiority? I don't see the problem as long as it is good-natured piss taking and done in song or chant with no physical threat at all.

[AndyC]

Why should the main supporter groups be kid-friendly?

Supporters groups are there to provide the team 90+ minutes of excitement while they run around the entire time. Vulgarity is pretty inevitable - families should be warned before they purchase tickets that their seats are nearby the supporter section. Crew players have responded positively to this year's rejuvinated supporters group.

The reason I was excited that the Sounders FC would play in Qwest is that it's the only place I've witnessed an energized fanbase during a game (Seahawks). The only exception was Mariners/Reds last year, and that was because the fanbase was rooting for a player on the opposing team.

I attend Sounders games with a guy from Boston (Revs fan). We both get a kick out of ECS (yelling "Let him die!" was an awesome touch last week). Keep up the good work!

[HardHatMike]

The Crew supporters were frankly intimdating.

Why, thank you. Sort of what we shoot for those 90 minutes. Outside of the stadium however, we're some of the nicest and most welcoming folks around who would happily buy you a beer, share some wings, and talk soccer all night.

[Crouchaldinho]

I know this might create a backlash of hateful rebuttal, but I have to say something:

Never:eek:

Honestly, you need to chill out a little. You have a tendency to write a lot. There is no reason to write a essay on "The Evils of Supporter Groups". When you write that much it seems to be a rant but I am rambling.

I must also confess though,that I am not a big fan of the "you suck @--hole" or "A rope, A tree, to hang the referee" chants either. I am not a prude, but too much profanity in chants is just...uncreative. One of my favorite chants was UW students to Ganzaga's Adam Morrison to "Shave your Mustache". I like more thought in chants say...something about Toja's mullet, or Masteroni propensity for red cards, or Landy Cakes not hackin' it in Europe.

Yet, the great thing about supporter groups is that it's a free market. If you don't like what is being offered, then start your own group. I believe there are some who are kicking around the idea of the "Flying Monkeys" as a family friendly option but I think that is somewhat of a pipe dream. So, if the ECS is not your cup of tea, do the work of starting your own or crazy as it sounds get involved with ECS, come up with chant ideas yourself.

PS Stop throwing stuff on the field.

[Dave Brull]

I went to Columbus Crew Game last week when there on business and saw one of the major disconnects between supporter groups and fans. The Crew supporters were frankly intimidating with their hooliganesque poseur appearance

This part is true. I have evidence.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=599285&id=571059024

[WestSeattle]

To summarize as best as I can:

Being a jerk at a game, isn't fun, it isn't authentic, and it hurts our sport. Being in a "supporter's section" doesn't license such behavior in my opinion.

That "Jane" and "Joe" mentioned before, are the majority of people supporting MLS today, we pay most of the bills around here. Don't abuse us, don't intimidate us, and don't think for a second we're a weaker brand of fan. Indeed to be honest, it is the "hard core supporters" that often have a higher percentage of causing damage to our sport than the average fan. And given how the best atmosphere in sports I've ever seen, didn't always involve any supporters groups at all, please don't delude yourself in thinking us "average" fans create terrible atmosphere.

And yes, some supporter groups do act like gang members. Abusive behavior is not only accepted it is encouraged in some groups. I know we've all seen this at game. It's ugly and it is particularly unique to our sport, and I'll even say this, it tends to be more pervasive in North America, than we care to admit.

And that's not good for socccer in this country, it allows morons like Tony Kornheiser to point at fans like this and say, "see I told you so".

I am not talking *fun* banter at opposing fans, I am talking abuse - and yes knowing where the line is, is something not all supporter groups have figured out. I can't comment on Portland v. Seattle, except to say I've seen fans of those groups justify damaging facilities at opposing stadiums, and chucking stuff at opposing players. Such behavior is juvenile and hurts our sport. If that's "passive-aggressive" of me, so be it.

To be honest though, I don't know the history of the groups on either side, so those last comments, are not backed up with a lot of knowledge or data.

I will say several supporter's group I have seen in my time, tend to try and bait opposing fans into a fight, and think such acts as throwing beer on them, throwing garbage at them, and throwing extremely profane comments at them (regardless of who is around them age-wise), is not only acceptable, it is a badge of honor.

It is the intra-club abuse that can be the most alarming though. I am talking one supporter group chastizing others, chasing down and harming fans who jump groups, or infiltrating pubs known to be frequented by a certain group, with the intention of causing trouble.

Most of all and most common iis one supporter's group railroading independent fans and stadium personnel. I am talking about chastizing security of the stadium, because they dare to try and discipline a supporter group member (usually with good reason), I am talking fans getting too drunk at a game, I am talking fans abusing independent fans, or worse, abusing people who lack experience with the game's rules or players.

Kind of like how video gamers, will mock, chastize, berate and abuse "newbies", I've seen the same thing at soccer games, I hardly ever see it at NFL games, never seen it at baseball games.

Overly sexist, racist, boorish banter, is not acceptable adult behavior, and it hurts out sport. End of story. That is not some weak-knee politically correct finger wagging either. I have no use for politically correct philosophy, I do however believe we should all aspire to be adults, and I won't condone juvenile behavior from grown men and women.

And sadly, I must report some groups, go out of their way, *not* to be adult, but to be as juvenile as possible, treating a soccer match as if were one large, exclusive, vindictive, and petty college fraternity.

I know many of you agree on the larger point here, so my apologies for repeating it. I just want to deconstruct what I perceive to be a lie: "It's okay to be a total jerk at a soccer game if you sit in a supporter section."

I know comments such as mine, can offend some fans. I apologize for that. And since I've said my piece twice now, I'll let others respond with their own views. I appreciate how tolerant many of you were of my own opinion on this topic. What makes Big Soccer great, is that opinion that goes against the grain of moderators and the majority, is responded to, addressed and discussed with mutal respect from all parties.

That is not always the case, in lesser forums, so I do appreciate that I am allowed to voice my opinion and receive such interesting, and respectful feedback in return.

[koolkeith13]

I like where Gavin was going with it. We can supporters groups of all different sorts and flavors to appeal to all types of fans. Support is so flexible that you can literally show up with your friends and do whatever you like. That's what I love about supporting football. You don't need to feel like there is one correct way to support it.

I would like to see more groups popping up that would like to have a relationship with ECS. The only one that I know of that has actually reached out to us is the Flying Monkeys. I talk to their leader quite regularly and even donated ECS scarfs to his son's team's upcoming fundraiser (confusing possessives there). If there is anyone out there that wants to work with us in any way feel free to contact us (myself, fuzzy, EricGi, Seattle Supporters, etc.) and we'll figure something out. Like Mike said, supporters groups - even the rowdy ones - are full of surprisingly nice guys. That's the overwhelming feedback I get from people when they come out for ECS.

WS - one thing that you bring up that utterly confuses me is the "supporters" versus "non-supporters" confrontation. Why do people perceive there to be this division? My take is that relatively few people have problems with us, and other groups, because of their interactions with a few people. I can't speak for everyone but I have tried to be a very accomidating person when people ask us to tone down things. This will become harder in the future, but my hope is that we can lead by example and be positive influences on those that join our ranks. There will also be times where we, or other groups, get pegged for the wrong-doings of others that have nothing to do with us. We'll see what the future brings. I cannot speculate much more beyond that.

Crouch - my hope is that those sorts of chats will eventually be replaced with more creative songs and chants. It's hit and miss though. Our latest additions - which are really good, too - have been overlooked in favor of folks saying that "Take 'Em All" is about genocide (which I really think is really reaching honestly). SGs pretty much only ever hear what they do wrong and everyone has an opinion.

[WestSeattle]

WS - one thing that you bring up that utterly confuses me is the "supporters" versus "non-supporters" confrontation. Why do people perceive there to be this division?

Apologies, I should have more accurately descibed as "supporter group members" vs. "independent fans" (no allegiance other than to the team). We're all supporters, just not necessarily members of a supporters group.

And I make mention of the distinction, because some supporter groups, go out of their way to berate other groups, and fans not in their club. In Toronto, it is my understanding based on friends who live there (and my experience there pre-MLS days), that there is some tangible friction between some of the groups there and that a few pubs intimidate fans not aligned with the supporter group that dominates the pub's crowd before a game. (Although I also understand this year is better than last year in that regard).

Also like it or not, the percentage chance a supporter-club enrolled fan will cause trouble is higher than the "Jane" and "Joe" fan. Naturally, the vast, vast majority of supporter groups and their members do not attend soccer games to cause trouble, and be a jerk. A very small minority of supporter-club members, join the supporter's club as one would join a "gang", to bully and intimidate others not in the gang.

I doubt ECS has ever done any of this. Having watched you guys from afar at a few matches this year, your main mission seems simply to be to stand, cheer loudly and have a good time (although you guys could be louder in my opinion). I don't have much of a beef with ECS to be honest (and sent you a very small token of money once, to support your general cause). I don't join supporter clubs, by rule, I'm not suited for them, but I recognize good ones help the game tremendously.

If I had any quibble with ECS, we hashed it out on earlier threads, mainly I think that throwing stuff at players is not acceptable, and that trashing opposing stadiums isn't particularly clever. I also cautioned ECS to take the "higher road" when it came to confrontations with Portland. We walked through that discussion before, and I respect the fact my thoughts on the topic, we're not indicative of how some ECS members feel.

I just don't accept the idea that because you are sitting in a supporter's section, you get to be as rude, profane and drunk as you like.

And I don't think supporter groups that go out of their way to intimidate other fans are good for the game.

All-age supporter groups are awesome in my opinion, because it becomes easier to get involved with the community in a positive way (supporting and helping to finance youth clubs for example).

On the other hand, if you are just about alcohol, profanity and getting as close to provocation of others without getting kicked of the match, eventually the youth clubs, and other community projects you can help, simply do not want to be associated with you. Organizing for positive advancement of the sport seems a worthier goal than "finding other guys to drink with". Supporter groups that grow beyond this, and sponsor a youth team, or help find disadvantage kids a new ball or shoes, are the kind of things I like to see from supporter groups.

Hearing that there was verbal abuse and a very close eruption with out-of-town fans is not things I think are particularly cool at all.

And anyone who teaches a kid this is "neat and cool to do" is a tacky idiot in my opinion. Basic sportsmanship, (not politically correct crap, just the basic concept of sportsmanship) is not an ideal that I think should be thrown away, just because you're in a supporter group. And I think groups influence youth whether you like it or not (because we all do when we attend large social gatherings like a match), and as such, we should be a little cognizant of that, and try to show the next generation of fans, how to appreciate the sport and the sportsmanship that is a vital component of the game.

What other sport for example, has unwritten rules not to take advantage of an injured player? That's a core philosophy of soccer, that I'd like to see more supporter groups reflect out in the stands.

There's an old English joke that goes something like this:

Soccer is a sport played by gentlemen and supported by urchins and rogues. Cricket is the opposite.

I'd like it, if one day, there wasn't quite as much truth to the first part of that joke.

However, since I am the most anti-social person you'll ever meet, and since I am socially-retarded beyond words, and since I've never been able to stomach any kind of a social club (I was a complete disaster as a Kiwanis member for example), I concede all this opinion of mine might be terribly off-key and wrong.

Also, I was one of those "ugly" fans when I was young. Getting into fights, damaging property on the field, and worse. So maybe, my reservation, my worry and my opinion is derived from knowing just how ugly a fan I was in my late-teens, and how "gang mentality" helped fuel and justify that behavior.

Hopefully, there is something valid in what I say, but it is personal opinion on the topic at large, nothing more. I wouldn't give it a moment's thought, if you disagreed, it might even be a sign of wisdom.

[GOALSeattle]

A must-read on this very topic:

http://soundersfc.com/Article.aspx?id=1904&languageId=1033

One of my responsibilities with Sounders FC is to encourage the genesis and growth of supporters groups. They will play a key role in the atmosphere created at Qwest Field. The current Sounders have a band of supporters - we want to take that group, cultivate it, find other groups, and support their efforts.
So prior to heading to BMO Field for the Toronto / Montreal match on Tuesday night, I had lunch with a lead member of the Red Patch Boys, TFC's largest supporter group. My goal - to ask as many questions as possible, see what they do, how they do it, how they assembled the group, how the front office supports them, what is allowed, what is prohibited - all with the thought of applying some of their practices to Sounders FC supporters. The gentleman I met with is one of the founding members - we talked about their initial meeting with the front office staff of TFC, the beginning of their website, how TFC supports their efforts, how they grew their group to over 600 paid members, what they do at matches, how they do it - all good stuff. I learned a lot and was looking forward to heading to the stadium to see what all the buzz was about.

[Z010 Union]

WS - You are spot on about the the Janes and Joes making up the majority of the audience and the sport would be nowhere without them.

Think of it like a recipe. The Janes and Joes are the bread, the eggs, and the milk, the clear building blocks and stability. The supporters groups are the spice rack. Not everyone is going to be thrilled by the spice chosen, but if you don't have any, the result is a bland dish, like a Colorado game.

While not chosing to participate in it, the atmosphere is what makes soccer unique in a crowded sports landscape and keeps Jane and Joe hungry for more.

The violence is foolish and hurts the sport. The proliferation of syncronized swearing can be dead awful. I am not including those in my assessment. But a strong supporters group, that has a code of conduct and able leadership, is essenstial to the atmosphere that creates a permanent bond between fan and team.

When you see ads for teams that have a vibrant supporters culture like DC, Chicago, and Houston, the ads invariably showcase their most rabid fans. Not only does it prove the sport is worthy of emotional investment, it is a great selling point to bring new customers in the door and keep them coming back.

One example, my oldest child was brought up in our around supporters sections in DC or NY. When the Women's World Cup came, and we attempted with several others to enliven the atmosphere by standing and chanting, we were chastised. Apparently the only screaming allowed was for Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-aaaaaaaaaa ;) By the 65th minute of a US game, seeing her idols play she asked to leave because she was bored. In the 20+ MLS games we attended before then, she always wanted to stay past the final whistle to continue singing and clapping for the home team, even if they were getting mauled. She was 9 then.

In conclusion, some of the issues you pointed out are very troublesome and potentially detrimental. When alcohol fires a fraternal experience into a gang mindset, there is always a potential for danger. That is where able leadership, self policing, and working with the team to create visiting fan policies and a knowlegable cadre of security around supporters of both teams is needed.

[Ciscokid]

Why, thank you. Sort of what we shoot for those 90 minutes. Outside of the stadium however, we're some of the nicest and most welcoming folks around who would happily buy you a beer, share some wings, and talk soccer all night.

HHMike,

I have no doubt as to your off-field mellow persona, and I wasn't being insulting in my description, just trying to paint a picture. I'm a grown up and can handle the chants, and i know how to avoid "situations." My only point is that for at least a portion of the crowd, your chants and appearance detract from THEIR POSITIVE experience.

Not totally your problem, but it does create an issue if these paying customers choose to not return. It was a pretty light house for a nationally televised game, and I know they papered the house because I was offered a free ticket at midfield (which I took, naturally).

Certainly not the fault of supporter groups, but it gives the casual fan one more reason to NOT go, and that threatens the long term viability of your beloved team.

By the way, can I just say that 5 goals in 25 minutes? That was a vastly entertaining 1st half of soccer.

[scotch17]

Your trolling with that be a man comment and you know it. You are using passive aggressive bullying techniques to achieve your goal.


I felt it was a very beta-male thing to do. :rolleyes::p

Overall great post sir. I didn't want to touch that monstrosity of hyperbole myself.