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View Full Version : The Spurs Syndrome


Danners9
14 Sep 2003, 06:37 PM
from spurscommunity.co.uk

What annoys me most about us is that we seem to be stuck in a time warp - we are in the same position we were 9 years ago when Francis took over; 4-5 good players which are disgraced and maligned by a poor, substandard supporting squad. A more-than prudent board that would rather plough millions into a glittering stadium, rather than on a team worthy of playing in one.

When Francis took over we still had possibly one of the best attacking and midfield line-ups in the league with world cup stars littering our team, players like Klinsmann, Dumitrescu, Popescu etc. Excellent prospects throughout the team in Campbell, Barmby, Anderton etc and to cap it off a rather astute Teddy Sheringham to provide the icing on the cake.

After two seasons with Francis all of a sudden we didn't have world-cup stars, instead we purchasing substandard players like Wilson, Sinton, Fox, Vega, Scales etc whereas Arsenal were signing Petit, Overmars, Bergkamp, Viera to name but a few. The Sugar-Francis partnership retarded the club by 4 years at least on our other rivals.

Subsequent managers Gross & Graham further still added to our assortment of premiership rejects with players such as Tramezzani, Leonharsen, Dominguez etc. In fact the only other player of note that really showed some gusto since klinsmann was the immortal Ginola, which frankly isn't good enough when our rivals are churning out stars by the bucketload.

And now to Hoddle. a man who i believe is a very good manager as he showed with the England team and Southampton; i thought he would herald in a new era where we would see a pumped and primed tottenham team battling for every inch on that field, but 2 and half seasons later we are still being blighted by the same problems we have been suffering from these past 8 years.

Still we find that key positions are being inhabited by players who are frankly not Tottenham standard, players like taricco, perry, bunjevcevic, acimovic etc. Players that we once championed as being good prospects for the future of the club, players such as king, doherty, etherington etc have all been blighted by poor form. An anthesis to these players is of john o'shea who managed walk into the man utd and almost immediately showed a calm assurity and maturity that has not only made rio ferdinand's price tag seem a little over the top, but has spearheaded o'shea as one of the premiership's most effective and reliable young defenders. Yet King seems to be all at sea when there is no Richards to guide him, and this is two and a half years after he made his debut for us. Even though he he does put in good displays for us during the season, he however flatters only to decieve with his quite lack-lustre displays in other matches.

To be fair, Hoddle has been making certain calculating departures in the form of Thatcher, Sullivan, Iversen, Ferdinand, the loan exit of Perry and the hopeful drawn out transfer of Doherty. But its not a case of just 3-4 player but a case of huge wholesale changes. Radically decimating the extensive deadwood and building yet again. It seems no Spurs manager has really done that, only transfer a few players and then add more talentless trash to the graveyard of premiership rejects that already infest our team.

And so it comes to this. If not Hoddle, then who? This next section will probably echo 'The next Tottenham manager' post but this seems to be the natural progression of this post at this juncture, but i feel i must continue.

The candidate who i feel is probably suited to managing Tottenham is Louis Van Gaal.

Though there will be those who disagree i feel that he has the tough-minded tenacity to bring this team kicking and screaming in to the new millenium. Many forget that when in charge of Ajax and with the likes of Bergkamp, Seedorf and other Ajax stars having left he still managed to win the Champions League with Ajax, and its under him that stars like Overmars, Kliuvert, Reiziger and Davids etc really developed. When manager of Barcelona, i remember that he managed to yield a Spanish title with them (correct me if i am wrong please) something no subsequent Barca manager has been able to do.

Though he wasn't able to repeat the success the second time around, i still feel that if Tottenham were to sack Hoddle (which i sincerley hope they don't) then Van Gaal is the man. He is a tough disciplinarian in the Ferguson-mould who wants his teams to battle with finesse, but battle they shall. Van Gaal also has the standing in Europe that could attract some of the big stars in much the same as Wenger has been able to do at Arsenal.

This whole article may sound to most as the ramblings of an idiot, but this what i feel must be said.

So.. upshot of this.. Louis van Gaal, next in line for the throne?

Or Hoddle with a fit squad all playing well.

Still, managers are hired and fired way too quickly.. it's not good for the team. Continuity is best. Give Hoddle his chance.

DigitalTron
15 Sep 2003, 01:52 AM
In general I agree with that article. But I think Hoddle needs more time. The one Achilles' heel is the defense. We have a solid (but not great) defense when our 3 man back line is playing together, but that's rare and almost never for very long at a time. Our back line reserves are horrid. While I think Bunji is adequate, he's probably the only sub defender we have. Unfortunately, he'll play quite a bit because in addition to being thin depth-wise, our back line is also very injury-prone.

The best way to solve this problem is to obtain a quality Dmid (Van Bommel!!) to protect the back three. While I do like Redknapp, he's not a true Dmid. Ricketts is full of energy, but he's not the answer. Dalmat might fare sufficiently, but he's more of a two way player and not really a defensive anchor either. Spurs need players. They need a starting and starring Dmid, and they need a reserve Dmid. Likewise, Spurs need depth along the back line. Mabizela may eventually be a back line starter ... but nothing seems to indicate that he'll be ready very soon.

The wingback position is less of a concern, because by the time Stevie is ready to give up his spot I think Marney, Kelly, or one of the other young guns (Ifil?) will be ready to claim the spot with another or two there to provide depth. While Konchesky is only a short term loan at the moment, I suspect he'll become a permanent addition, and provide a suitable back-up to Ziege. If Convey had arrived I am confident that Convey could have more than adequately filled Ziege's spot.

Up front the youngsters have shown the effort and teased with talent, but not yet proven to be the clinical finishers that Keane and Kanoute are. I have faith that they will, but without defensive re-inforcements, Hoddle's job may ultimate hinge on Postiga and Zamora's production in the foreseeable future.

-Digital

comme
15 Sep 2003, 06:58 AM
If Van Gaal joins then one thing is assured, we'll have about 10 dutch players by the end of the year.

Danners9
15 Sep 2003, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by comme
If Van Gaal joins then one thing is assured, we'll have about 10 dutch players by the end of the year.

Yes but who :D

van Bommel, Davids who is out of contract at the end of the season, Hofland, Seedorf for a start.. there's 4 i wouldn't mind ;)

DigitalTron
15 Sep 2003, 07:42 AM
Please, not Seedorf, Spurs already have too much money invested in members of the "All-Training-Table-Team." Seedorf might make Ziege, Redknapp and our back line look like iron-men.

I'm standing behind Hoddle. If Hoddle does go, we could certainly do worse than Van Gaal. But, I think the best choice would be Bruce Arena, and despite his current contract, I doubt the USSF would stand in his way.

Arena has a history of taking mediocre talent and molding it into a tremendous team. He wins championships at every level. He is a fantastic developer of youth and has a good eye for talent, although I'd advocate that Pleatt stay on in that regard because he's doing an excellent job IMHO. By the end of the year Arena would have guys like Simon Davies in career-best form, and have our defense be mid-table despite playing beautiful attacking football. He'd also lead to several good young US players migrating to Spurs on the cheap. They'd most likely be guys like Convey, Donovan and Bocanegra, none of which would have any work permit problems by then.

-Digital

Danners9
15 Sep 2003, 10:47 AM
I don't have an opinion on Arena, don't know enough i'm afraid.

Some speculation that Martin O'Neill would be #1 target. Which means lots of ex-Leicester, current-Celtic players :D. No thanks to those, but yes perhaps to the man. Not sure.

I'd prefer to see stability and let Hoddle assemble the side he wants, he is doing so at the moment.

Get Calderwood OUT of his coaching role, and get some decent help for Hoddle.. defensive people as well as motivational people. Please!

Sort out the training, and why oh why do players get injured so often at Spurs??

Then, i think we'd have a good side and a good balance and things would be healthy off the pitch.

dashiel
15 Sep 2003, 11:08 AM
i agree with the "give hoddle time" sentiment. today's revolving door policy towars managers doesn't provide a successful environment for players.

managers who don't routinely get the team in to relegation dog fights should be allowed to stay with a team for 5 years.

i was just talking with my dad about this, since the premiership began we've had 5 ot 6 managers and as danners points out we're basically in the same spot. i actually think the sacking of george graham was a very bad decision in terms of team building. he had started to mold a very competent (if ultimately boring) squad akin to blackburn a few seasons ago. along comes hoddle and it's back to square one.

jumhed
15 Sep 2003, 04:26 PM
Target O'Neil is the London Evening Standards headline today. If Hodd does go, then O'Neil is the man. Spurs might not have a bundle of cash if Hodd goes, and Van Gaal would want to buy a bunch of Dutch perverts, whereas O'Neil would just take the players we've got (actually a very good bunch, but not playing as a unit), and then motivate them to death. We'd be top 6 easy. He's an awesome manager, he could motivate a load of John Grooms merchants to a mid-table position.

jumhed
15 Sep 2003, 04:45 PM
The last great Spurs side was the one put together by Ardiles. Unfortunately, he was obsessed with the 0-0-10 formation (okay, I'm exaggerating, it was 5-0-5). It was a crying shame that he brought Steve Perryman in too late to sort out the defence. When we lost 3-0 to Notts County it was obvious he was going. Then in came Gerry Francis. What an absolute loser. I can't believe he turned down the England job 3 times. I wish he'd just pissed off. When you look at the players he turned down (attracted by Klinsmann, Spurs were offered (and turned down) Bergkamp, Zola, Zidane, Dugarry, among others), the players he sold, the players he bought (Clve Wilson, Andy Sinton). He is the worst manager ever to come to Spurs. Worse even than Terry Neill, the Arsenal fool who dismantled the team in the mid-70's.

Danners9
15 Sep 2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by jumhed
(attracted by Klinsmann, Spurs were offered (and turned down) Bergkamp, Zola, Zidane, Dugarry, among others), the players he sold, the players he bought (Clve Wilson, Andy Sinton).

Ooh, i was reading something about this the other day when searching for the Spurs directors.

Erm, who was it...

the architect, Igal Yawetz - israeli descent - had links in France, to agents. It was through him that these players were offered.

A joke really.. we should have seen these players.

comme
15 Sep 2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by jumhed
The last great Spurs side was the one put together by Ardiles. Unfortunately, he was obsessed with the 0-0-10 formation (okay, I'm exaggerating, it was 5-0-5). It was a crying shame that he brought Steve Perryman in too late to sort out the defence. When we lost 3-0 to Notts County it was obvious he was going. Then in came Gerry Francis. What an absolute loser. I can't believe he turned down the England job 3 times. I wish he'd just pissed off. When you look at the players he turned down (attracted by Klinsmann, Spurs were offered (and turned down) Bergkamp, Zola, Zidane, Dugarry, among others), the players he sold, the players he bought (Clve Wilson, Andy Sinton). He is the worst manager ever to come to Spurs. Worse even than Terry Neill, the Arsenal fool who dismantled the team in the mid-70's.

That team of Ardiles was great, great fun, but little else. While I enjoyed the 4-3s, he was a crap manager, and Francis steered us to our best finish of the last 13 years. Also during that time we went on an incredible run to be 2nd at Christmas, sadly we wasted that chance and have never looked back.

To be honest whenever i think of Spurs it is with a mix of excitement, jubilation and despair. We spend money, occasionally sign an immense player, but normally just play nowhere near our potential.

sendorange
15 Sep 2003, 07:19 PM
O'Neil is a fantastic manager, he's supposedly not happy at Celtic due to the financial situation. Uefa Cup finalists and Champions League qualifiers and yet he's made to scrape around for free transfers.

I don't think we'd get him, but if we did he'd surely use us as a stepping stone to Liverpool or Newcastle.

I'm very down on Hoddle right now. There's still no ballwinner and no fight in the team when the opposition is small or things go wrong. It's all very well players trying hard at Stamford Bridge or Anfield, that's not down to the manager's motivation, that's internal motivation. It's the Fulham and Birmingham games where the manager should be giving them a hunger and determination.

I also think tactically that's he not doing well recently, he used to be great at that side of the game, now I'm not so sure.

If we lose to Coventry in the league cup then I think he will be gone, unless we beat Southampton....

Danners9
15 Sep 2003, 09:11 PM
Or Manchester United.. IF Fergie ever realises he's losing the plot (blaming foreigners for the spate of diving, and signing 4 this summer).

I think so too.. Coventry will be Hoddle's Notts County (see Ardiles).

However a Southampton and Man City win would be good news.

He says he's not under any pressure though. Confusing.

Souness is in line too, apparently.

Souness, McLeish, O Neill.. or as this guy reckons, Van Gaaaaaaaaal.

sendorange
16 Sep 2003, 03:36 AM
The Sun reckons Harry Redknapp!!!

That sounds scarily realistic, but I bloody hope it isn't.

DigitalTron
16 Sep 2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by sendorange
The Sun reckons Harry Redknapp!!!

That sounds scarily realistic, but I bloody hope it isn't. Link?

Danners9
16 Sep 2003, 09:40 PM
http://www.glory-glory.net/news/show_story.asp?story_id=127

Here's one..

http://www.football365.com/All_News/Premiership_News/story_81838.shtml

Slightly later...

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/tottenham/story.jsp?story=444104

and latest

:)

The Double
16 Sep 2003, 09:44 PM
I don't think replacing Hoddle just yet is the answer. I think replacing our Creative Mid, our DMid and having our defense reinforced is the answer.


Hoddle should make the team a bet. If they save his ass and he is around by Boxing Day, he has to go out pre-game in WHL and perform "Diamond Lights" with Waddle. If not, he's fired.