1. FC Köln 08/09 Thread [R]

[cookiely]

and rumor is the FC is heavily flirting with KSC`s Freis who can leave the club
without a fee this summer

[footyfan1]

and rumor is the FC is heavily flirting with KSC`s Freis who can leave the club without a fee this summer


I like that kid!! That would be a kick ass signing for you guys!!!

Shit, I would want Dortmund to consider him if we go ahead and get rid of Valdez!

[MicFW]

With Novakovic, Podolski and Ishiaku we're going to have a great strikeforce next season. Do we really need another striker, even when he could come on a free transfer? We've also got Chihi who could act as a backup striker if necessary.
I see our midfield as the main problem area. Maybe we should try to get rid of Vucicevic and Antar and look out for free wingers and offensive midfielders.

[footyfan1]

With Novakovic, Podolski and Ishiaku we're going to have a great strikeforce next season. Do we really need another striker, even when he could come on a free transfer? We've also got Chihi who could act as a backup striker if necessary.

I see our midfield as the main problem area. Maybe we should try to get rid of Vucicevic and Antar and look out for free wingers and offensive midfielders.


As far as I know, Freis can play as an attacking midfielder too.

I'm not sure about Chihi at this level just yet. Sure, he can play the position, but exactly how effective will he be??

I know that same question can be asked of Freis at attacking midfield too....

I agree with your comments on Uncle Fester (our nickname for Vucicevic when he was at 1860) and Roda Antar. I think both are pretty good 2nd Bundesliga players, but not good enough to start in the 1st Bundesliga.

Also, do you guys really think Podolski is going to come in and pick up his old pace again?

I'd worry about his Bayern experience possibly being damaging to him.

And if that is so, I wouldn't blame Bayern for it. Bayern only wanted him to fight for something.

He wouldn't fight for himself, I hope he fights for you.

[MicFW]

As far as I know, Freis can play as an attacking midfielder too.

I'm not sure about Chihi at this level just yet. Sure, he can play the position, but exactly how effective will he be??

I know that same question can be asked of Freis at attacking midfield too....

(...)

Also, do you guys really think Podolski is going to come in and pick up his old pace again?

I'd worry about his Bayern experience possibly being damaging to him.

And if that is so, I wouldn't blame Bayern for it. Bayern only wanted him to fight for something.

He wouldn't fight for himself, I hope he fights for you.

Thanks for the information on Freis. I'm not an expert on KSC players at all, so I didn't know that he can play OM.

You're spot on with your comment on Chihi, he has to work hard if he wants to become a really valuable player. On the other hand, he has a good pace and he always seems to be extremely motivated when get's a chance to play. I'd like us to put some trust in him and in our younger players in general. If they aren't thrown in at the deep end from time to time, we can't expect them to develop.

I mostly agree with your assessment of Poldi's attitude at Bayern, but maybe we differ on the explanation of it. Podolski is probably not the kind of player who becomes more ambitious and hardworking when put on the bench, but rather someone who fades as soon as he feels a lack of encouragement. Maybe he failed to impress on the training ground, and we all know that his performances on the pitch were often disappointing.
Still for me the question remains: What came first, the egg or the chicken?
Poldi was a regular starter for club and country when he arrived in Munich in 2006. Many saw him as a huge talent who could make it really far, but more than that he had already proven to be a reliable goal scorer.
Bayern's management decided to handle Podolski as a raw talent anyway - as a talent that needed very careful fostering and a slow and steady development. Slow development basically meant that Poldi was given few time on the pitch. IMHO that approach was and still is completely of the mark, but nothing has changed ever since.
I've had a look at the Kicker website where Poldi's appearances for Bayern are listed. In his first season, he played 22 Bundesliga matches for Bayern. There were only 4 games in which he wasn't subbed in or out. In his second year, the ratio is 25 to 4, in this season 11 to 2. I hope I counted correctly.

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/30496/saison/2008-09

Compare these figures to those of Miro Klose, a player I also like, but who IMO hasn't really excelled at Bayern either. In his first season at Munich, Klose played 27 games, 9 of them for full 90 minutes. This season: 16 games, 9 of them for full 90 minutes. I'm too lazy to check the stats more closely, but I'm quite positive that Klose's net playing time since 2007 is considerably higher than that of Podolski. So, was Klose simply better all these months?
Klose's Kicker grades this season average 3.69, Poldi's grades average 3.71. Last season: Klose 3.68, Poldi 3.55.
I dare say that Klose got and still get's preferential treatment in Munich.

Now don't get me wrong please, I'm not making apologies for laziness, and I'm not shedding tears for poor Poldi being unfairly treated. It was his decision to go to Munich, and he surely got a lot of money there. But I do think that yes Bayern is a talent grave and yes there is some hope that Poldi will regain former strength when he get's to play regularly again. He might not hit the ground running, and I certainly don't expect him to reach the goal quota that he has in the national team, but I'm definitely more concerned with the financial aspects of the Podolski signing than with the sporting ones - although they are obviously connected.

[footyfan1]

Thanks for the information on Freis. I'm not an expert on KSC players at all, so I didn't know that he can play OM.

He can. I'm not going to say he's great at it, but he can.


You're spot on with your comment on Chihi, he has to work hard if he wants to become a really valuable player. On the other hand, he has a good pace and he always seems to be extremely motivated when get's a chance to play. I'd like us to put some trust in him and in our younger players in general. If they aren't thrown in at the deep end from time to time, we can't expect them to develop.

You write that as if Chihi is new to your team. How long has he been there? How long has he already been on the top team?

EDIT: How the hell did Chihi miss that open chance right in front of the Duesseldorf net in the 39th minute of the "Wintercup" final today??!! :eek:


I mostly agree with your assessment of Poldi's attitude at Bayern, but maybe we differ on the explanation of it. Podolski is probably not the kind of player who becomes more ambitious and hardworking when put on the bench, but rather someone who fades as soon as he feels a lack of encouragement. Maybe he failed to impress on the training ground, and we all know that his performances on the pitch were often disappointing.
Still for me the question remains: What came first, the egg or the chicken?
Poldi was a regular starter for club and country when he arrived in Munich in 2006. Many saw him as a huge talent who could make it really far, but more than that he had already proven to be a reliable goal scorer.
Bayern's management decided to handle Podolski as a raw talent anyway - as a talent that needed very careful fostering and a slow and steady development. Slow development basically meant that Poldi was given few time on the pitch. IMHO that approach was and still is completely of the mark, but nothing has changed ever since.
I've had a look at the Kicker website where Poldi's appearances for Bayern are listed. In his first season, he played 22 Bundesliga matches for Bayern. There were only 4 games in which he wasn't subbed in or out. In his second year, the ratio is 25 to 4, in this season 11 to 2. I hope I counted correctly.

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/30496/saison/2008-09

Compare these figures to those of Miro Klose, a player I also like, but who IMO hasn't really excelled at Bayern either. In his first season at Munich, Klose played 27 games, 9 of them for full 90 minutes. This season: 16 games, 9 of them for full 90 minutes. I'm too lazy to check the stats more closely, but I'm quite positive that Klose's net playing time since 2007 is considerably higher than that of Podolski. So, was Klose simply better all these months?
Klose's Kicker grades this season average 3.69, Poldi's grades average 3.71. Last season: Klose 3.68, Poldi 3.55.
I dare say that Klose got and still get's preferential treatment in Munich.

Now don't get me wrong please, I'm not making apologies for laziness, and I'm not shedding tears for poor Poldi being unfairly treated. It was his decision to go to Munich, and he surely got a lot of money there. But I do think that yes Bayern is a talent grave and yes there is some hope that Poldi will regain former strength when he get's to play regularly again. He might not hit the ground running, and I certainly don't expect him to reach the goal quota that he has in the national team, but I'm definitely more concerned with the financial aspects of the Podolski signing than with the sporting ones - although they are obviously connected.


We disagree on what was expected of Poldi at Bayern and how he was handled. They expected big things of him. They didn't treat him like some developing talent.

They didn't treat him like they are treating Toni Kroos.

You hit the nail on the head when you said, "Maybe he failed to impress on the training ground."

From the guys I know up there, that is exactly the reason. And the way I see it, Poldi is an effective player when he's having fun. He isn't having much fun at Bayern. For the first time in a long while he had to EARN a spot on a team. He didn't get a spot because he was one of the best without even trying.

We all know Felix Magath is a coach who demands a lot from his players. A friend of mine claims that Felix Magath once told him off the record that Podolski would give half-assed efforts and play around a lot in training and then wonder why he'd find his ass on the bench come Saturday.

When Ottmar Hitzfeld returned, HE DID show confidence in Podolski and played him despite not getting what he wanted out of Poldi in training. However, when other players balked at Poldi getting that time even though he didn't deserve it, Hitzfeld had to sit him back down.

Klinsmann tried to motivate Podolski into fighting for a position. And then Poldi goes whining to "Bild" insuinating that Klinsmann killed any motivation he had to excel at Bayern by telling him he was third choice. I don't want a player who just puts his head down and cries when told he's third choice. I want one who will fight hard to displace the other two.

You said you weren't making apologies for laziness or shedding tears for poor Poldi being unfairly treated.

However, the way I see it, when you said Klose gets preferential treatment, that's exactly what you were doing.

I'm not a Bayern fan, but I follow them very closely. I'm nearly forced to living in this area and I still know people close to the club.

I can tell you exactly why Miro Klose plays even when he's slumping and Lukas Podolski doesn't.

Work ethic and attitude.

No Bayern player works harder for that team on the training fields or on Saturday than Miroslav Klose. Klose never has been a spectacular player, he has worked his ass off to get where he is and continues to work his ass off to stay where he is.

Between the two of them, there is no question. Podolski is the most "talented."

However, if Podolski had half of Klose's work ethic, Podolski would truly be as great as he seems to think he already is.

From the way I see things, Poldi fell into the trap that so many players do when they hit superstardom at a young age.

They think they are truly great before they actually are.

I hope Christoph Daum can get Poldi to see that he still has work to do on his game and himself.

I don't think Podolski is a "bad kid" or a "lazy kid", I just think he's a "spoiled" one.

Meaning, one who is used to getting his way. I think Podolski needs to mature and see that when you are on a great team, working hard to earn your place means a lot more to your coach and teammates than how talented you are and how much fun you can be.

As far as how much Poldi got to play on the national team, I hate to put it this way, but he got that playing time then because at that time, Germany simply didn't have anyone as good or better. Now, Poldi will have to contend with the likes of Gomez and another Koln product, Helmes.

Gomez sucks in the national shirt so far, but he'll stay ahead of Poldi as long as he out-works him.

Things that Poldi uses as excuses now, he'd better learn to turn into motivational factors.

If he doesn't, you guys might wind up severely disappointed. I truly hope he does get it through his brain that even he cannot get by on talent alone.

And I do hope he finds his old form for you guys next season. I don't expect him to give Bayern anything much for the rest of this season.

[footyfan1]

Congrats on taking the Duesseldorf "Wintercup" Tournament!!!

Hey, I won't make any fun of that. BVB couldn't do it last season!

I hope that's a sign of good things to come for you.

[cookiely]

Congrats on taking the Duesseldorf "Wintercup" Tournament!!!

Hey, I won't make any fun of that. BVB couldn't do it last season!

I hope that's a sign of good things to come for you.

It`s in Dusseldoof, and for a Kölner, it is always nice to win there.

and we did it without scoring a single goal (not counting penalty shoot out)
now that`s something special :D

were were also the only team that did not concede a single goal and I am happy about that. Hopefully our defence and Nova will continue to get us through the season.

the games were rather dull, but it was nice to see Yalcin play.

[MicFW]

You write that as if Chihi is new to your team. How long has he been there? How long has he already been on the top team?

EDIT: How the hell did Chihi miss that open chance right in front of the Duesseldorf net in the 39th minute of the "Wintercup" final today??!! :eek:

We disagree on what was expected of Poldi at Bayern and how he was handled. They expected big things of him. They didn't treat him like some developing talent.

(...)

As far as how much Poldi got to play on the national team, I hate to put it this way, but he got that playing time then because at that time, Germany simply didn't have anyone as good or better. Now, Poldi will have to contend with the likes of Gomez and another Koln product, Helmes.

Gomez sucks in the national shirt so far, but he'll stay ahead of Poldi as long as he out-works him.

Things that Poldi uses as excuses now, he'd better learn to turn into motivational factors.

(...)


Chihi has been around for quite a while, I know, but he is only 20 years old. I concede that it's high time for him to show some progress, but at least I am not willing to write him off just yet. As far as his miss in the Wintercup game is concerned, yeah okay, that was pathetic and doesn't exactly support my argument, but may I quote the bible in this case?
"For three years now I have been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and finding none. Cut it down: why should it be taking up the ground?" - "Sir," the man replied, "leave it one more year and give me time to dig round it and manure it: it may bear fruit next year; if not, then you can cut it down." (Luke 13,6-9)
Of course I don't know if Chihi will ever get his act together, but his shortcomings appear to me to be repairable (running into defenders with his head down, bustling around, …).

Now to the causa Poldi: I guess you are right, I was indeed making apologies for the prince. Your line of argument is convincing enough, and I am also of the opinion that Klose's work ethic is far superior than Poldi's who takes to excuses all too often.
I also agree that the treatment of Poldi and Kroos at Bayern are a different kettle of fish. All in all, and in the interest of a synthesis, let's agree that it was mostly Podolski's own fault that he didn't succeed at Bayern.

Yet I am not sure that it was ALL his fault and that the Bayern management can completely wash their hands of it. At least it would be one of the few occasions on which a monocausal explanation covers every aspect of a problem.
Any sensible coach would prefer hardworking players over lazybones. Klose is a steady worker, and when he doesn't score he often helps out with assists. But there were times (the second half of last season in particular) when he did neither. At least then one might have expected Poldi to get more playing time (especially with the Kicker grades I already mentioned in mind).

Gomez is a great player, but, as you said, he hasn't excelled on the national team so far. This guy was a huge disappointment, not to say complete rubbish at the Euros. Podolski didn't have many serious contenders in the past, granted, but his figures for Germany are top-notch. There have to be very good reasons to replace a player who scored 31 goals in 60 games, no matter how lazy he probably was during training sessions of his club.

ps: Always nice discussing with you. Debating is only fun when based on arguments rather than insults (which is not to say that insults are thrown around anywhere here on BS). ;)

[MicFW]

the games were rather dull, but it was nice to see Yalcin play.

I only watched our match against Fortuna, and that wasn't really exhilarating. How did Yalcin do in the first match (I hope I didn't overlook him in the second one)?

[The Old Lady Hertha]

the games were rather dull, but it was nice to see Yalcin play.

Just say it, it was almost pathetic. Hertha-Koeln had no shots on net until the freaking penalty shootout :rolleyes:

[footyfan1]

Just say it, it was almost pathetic. Hertha-Koeln had no shots on net until the freaking penalty shootout :rolleyes:

I'll be honest. I switched to the Hoffenheim v. Rhein-Neckar Auswahl match and switched back for the penalty shootout.

You could tell that's where it was going.

[MicFW]

Kevin Schöneberg takes his leave and goes to Rostock. It's on our website.

I also read that we are linked with Leon Andreasen (Fulham). There was allegedly some report in the Kicker magazine, but I can't find it on their website. Instead I found an article reporting Hanover's interest in this player, and elsewhere Jürgen Klopp is said to have cast an eye on the Dane.

I guess he's not a bad player, but he won't be cheap plus what do we need another defensive midfielder for?

Mensch Meier, I'm really starting to become distrustful.

[footyfan1]

I also read that we are linked with Leon Andreasen (Fulham). There was allegedly some report in the Kicker magazine, but I can't find it on their website. Instead I found an article reporting Hanover's interest in this player, and elsewhere Jürgen Klopp is said to have cast an eye on the Dane.

I guess he's not a bad player, but he won't be cheap plus what do we need another defensive midfielder for?

Mensch Meier, I'm really starting to become distrustful.


Andreasen won't be joining Dortmund this transfer window. The loan deal for K-P Boateng nixed any chance of that happening.

I've heard that Klopp was indeed interested in bringing Andreasen to Dortmund, but Fulham's asking price was too high.

Also, Andreasen isn't just a defensive midfielder, he can fall back and play in defense too.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

He can play center back. Good utility player and could be a good foil with Pedro.

[footyfan1]

He can play center back. Good utility player and could be a good foil with Pedro.

Fräulein96 says over on the H96 thread (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16799015&postcount=209) that local Hannover papers are saying they have bought Andreasen for 2.4M Euros.

[MicFW]

Also, Andreasen isn't just a defensive midfielder, he can fall back and play in defense too.

Thanks, but I knew that (for a change). Even so, he wouldn't remedy our biggest problems.

@ TOLH: We are more than happy with the Mohamad-Geromel partnership in the centre. For a backup Andreasen is simply too expensive.

Good on Hanover if they have signed him.

[footyfan1]

Thanks, but I knew that (for a change). Even so, he wouldn't remedy our biggest problems.

@ TOLH: We are more than happy with the Mohamad-Geromel partnership in the centre. For a backup Andreasen is simply too expensive.

Dude, I know you dig your players, but Leon Andreasen would not be a backup in Koln.

Your boys are good, but they aren't that good.......



Good on Hanover if they have signed him.

I don't think so. Like you and Koln, I think Hannover 96 had other, more pressing needs. Such as a creative midfielder.

I think they just wanted to make a splash.

[panicfc]

I think Andreasen is good, but he's not Geromel good. Mohammed is having a good season with Geromel, and the defense has been very stingy. Key for us is scoring a few goals and that's going to be tough.

[MicFW]

I think Andreasen is good, but he's not Geromel good. Mohammed is having a good season with Geromel, and the defense has been very stingy. Key for us is scoring a few goals and that's going to be tough.

I couldn't agree more.