Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 [R]

[russ99]

Here's the posted line-up from the website, which Kurz has a habit of changing. ;-) No changes from last week's roster but honsetly would rather see Ledgerwood where Bender or Schwarz. Goektan is suffering from "exhaustion" (wonder what's up there?). Gebhart is not much of a playmaker IMHO so glad he is sitting. Really need more work from all. If Kusuckovc does not do SOMETHING other than convert oxygen to carbon dioxide then he should be benched for DiSalvo. Yes, its early in the season...but 1860 cannot afford to have wasted matter on the field.

Here's hoping Bozo Tschauner does not show up this week.

http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/aufstellungen/1860-mainz.jpg

Göktan had some kind of nasty viral infection. Hopefully he'll get his strength back soon, but for now, we have to go on without him.

Can someone explain why Schwarz is playing that high in midfield? Doesn't make sense, plus it weakens the support for the defenders.

DiSalvo's streaky, so he's best used as the "Joker" until he pots a few goals and then we can ride his hot streak. I wish we had a better option than Kucucovic, but for now he's the guy...

Two more weeks and I'm getting Löwen TV. :D

[goindownsouth]

Two more weeks and I'm getting Löwen TV. :D

I know we talked about this before, but what are the details on this again? Live 1860 matches? All of them? Was kostet das?

[panicfc]

15 minutes after the game ends, you have the game on video via the internet.

[goindownsouth]

Not bad... How long do you have to view the match then? Or is it up all the time thereafter?

I take it the match ended in a 2:1 loss...

[footyfan1]

Not bad... How long do you have to view the match then? Or is it up all the time thereafter?

I take it the match ended in a 2:1 loss...

AFAIK, they are up for a long time afterward.

And yes, 1860 lost 2-1 today.

I can only say that I'm happy Kucukovic finally scored.

The rest just hurt to watch...... :(

[LoewenBoy]

AFAIK, they are up for a long time afterward.
Actually I don't think they ever take them down. At least last season you had at LEAST 3 weeks worth of games and highlights available.

And yes, 1860 lost 2-1 today. I can only say that I'm happy Kucukovic finally scored.
Well, Bierofka was quoted last week in private as saying to the team "different team, new players, same shit." He was referring to the horrid number of bad passes and poor marking. Killed us again today. I counted 32 bad passes in the first half alone. Beda, Hoffman and Berhalter just left the back WIDE open in the first half. Hell, had Mainz actually been a decent team it would have been 1-4 or 1-5. I was more impressed by Freiburg than Mainz. On the up side Gebhart played better but still not good enough for 2.BL. Kusuckovic was literally 2 feet from goal when he scored and he still put it in the upper net. HE did have a second goal called back for offside (which it was).

Simple problems to fix. Defense actually needs to play defense. Today Tschauner not really tested except for twice and came up big. If Freiburg and Mainz are the top contenders this season, then 1860 losing 1-2 to both of them is not such a bad omen. BUT....we have to finish, we have to create MORE chances and we CANNOT leave the back so wide open. I mean, the last time any German left their back line THAT wide open, the 101st Airborn parachuted behind it and shot their asses off.:D

The rest just hurt to watch...... :(
Dude, more true words were never spoken. The only thing more panful to the eyes than that game is mistakingly walking in on your parents during sex.

[goindownsouth]

I mean, the last time any German left their back line THAT wide open, the 101st Airborn parachuted behind it and shot their asses off.:D

Thanks... You make me choke on my Weihenstephaner Festbier! LOL

[LoewenBoy]

Now if you have read ANY of my posts in the last few years you know when it comes to Gergg Berhalter I can be wicked. Two years ago he was sucking the place up raw. Last season IMHO he was one of the best players and a true leader. Well, the 1860 announcer was brutal to Berhalter today blaming him for the first goal. Well, I cannot agree....

Pic #1: You see a throw in. Now, in my experience on situations like this it should be the right back marking the player closest to goal. BUT you will see Thorandt (#16) with his back to the camera/ball simply jogging back to position, thus forcing the centers in the flat back four to slot over. Guess what? The left back did not slot over to cover the middel. Let's call this Mistak #1.
http://www.mozartbrau.com/Project1.gif

Pic #2: Here we see Thorandt still out for his Sunday jog. That sound you hear in the background is the audible "oh shit" from one of our two central defenders who comitted Mistake #2: Not gettingt between the opponent and the goal. Mistake #3 is the coach's for putting two of the oldest and slowest players we have in central defense against two very fast strikers. Notice the 1860 player in the center of the picture now leaving his position to cover for the misplayed, slow player whom we shall call "Bob" (though his real name is Gregg Berhalter of 4723 Unterschmedling Strasse, Muenchen 82773).
http://www.mozartbrau.com/Project2.gif

Pic #3: He were see a visual of the 1860 problem. the four players in screen are IN FACT the flat back four. #16 (Thorandt) still notices nothing urgent about getting back into position. #4 (Hoffman) has come over to cover for #5 (Berhalter) who left his jock strap about 20m further upfield but has, himself, lost his own jock strap. #5 has gone to the left to cover for #4 who came over to cover for him (isn't friendship nice, they can cover for each other when covering your own position is usually much easier). Oh, and #6 (Beda) finally enters frame having lost his laundry ticket on the field and was down on his knees trying to find it, only now realizes that his coach has made HIM center back as well as #5 and that he might actually have some responsibility for the insuing goal.
http://www.mozartbrau.com/Project3.gif

And there you have it Loewn fans, 1860's version of the flat back four. Kurz needs to put the boot up Beda's ass for being out of position; kick Thorandt in the rump for forcing Berhalter to come over and cover for him; talk to Gregg about actually MARKING someone and, if you get burned, foul the guy so he does not get past you; and, finally Hoffman about using some of that experience to SEE what is going to happen and yell at a few poeple (like say, Bender) to come back and help out in defense.

But then again, I am only a middle aged former NCAA player with a UEFA C licence to coach and a former DFB state referee....what do I know.

[goindownsouth]

Wow... Not much hiding the errors there.

So my question is.. What now?

[LoewenBoy]

Wow... Not much hiding the errors there.

So my question is.. What now?
Good question. so let's look at it by row...

Strikers: Lauth was great last week, this week non-existent. Just not there the entire game. Kusuckovic is positioning better, but he really is a horrid player when it comes to fouls and positioning. He is in more danger of getting sent off than he ever is in scoring. I would start Lauth - Holebas or Lauth DiSalvo as a better option.

Midfield: Schwarz has as much creativity as the current US presidential candidates. Bierofka had an off match, but even his "off" is FAR better than most players' "on". Bender was just bad. He is like a kid who still is in awe of the fact he is playing out there...always too little, too late. Gebhart had a better match this week but, like Bender, seems in awe of where he is.

Defense: Can't quite understand why Kurz sat Ghvinianidze and Ledgerwood as they had good games last week. Last week he played Hoffman - Ghvinianidze - Beda - Johnson. This week he played Thorandt - Berhalter - Beda -Hoffman. I am an advocate of you CANNOT make wholesale changes to your back line. For God's Sake, if you do not know who your staring backline is by now it is a harbinger of REAL problems. Everyone knows Thorandt is too lazy to play right back. Berhalter can play middle but needs support on the wings which he did not get today. Beda was out to lunch today. Hoffman was ok but he is no Benny Schwarz.

In short, Kurz needs to pick a line up and stick with it.

[goindownsouth]

I am an advocate of you CANNOT make wholesale changes to your back line.

I could not agree more. Continuity back there is crucial, ESPECIALLY when you are dealing with someone as questionable as Tschauner in goal. 1860 sounds like they have similar issues at the back similar to Bayern.

[LoewenBoy]

I could not agree more. Continuity back there is crucial, ESPECIALLY when you are dealing with someone as questionable as Tschauner in goal. 1860 sounds like they have similar issues at the back similar to Bayern.
Difference being is that 1860 is dealing with cheap has-beens who still give it their all....they just come up short. Bayern, on the other hand, has high-quality, rich, cry-baby millionaires who like to bitch and backstab rather than taking accountability for their own inadequcies.:D

[goindownsouth]

True.

[LoewenBoy]

Good news....Goektan back in training. Now if we can just get Benny Schwarz back.
http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/10_berkant_goektan/Berkant_Training_622.jpg

[footyfan1]

Good news....Goektan back in training. Now if we can just get Benny Schwarz back.
http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/10_berkant_goektan/Berkant_Training_622.jpg

That is good news. Now, will Kurz play him behind the strikers or keep up with his stupid experimenting??

[LoewenBoy]

That is good news. Now, will Kurz play him behind the strikers or keep up with his stupid experimenting??
I think he had always planned to play him behind the strikers. I think the three bigger questions are:

Who will play in the wing? He has tried Ledgerwood there and Schwarz. Neither is a natural wing. Neither possesses a great deal of speed or great flanking ability. At least Nick comes back on defense. Schwarz was not to be seen defensively. For my money Gebhart or Holebas would be decent choices.
Who will play defensive mid? Bender has just not cut it. He is awkward and late a lot. I would rather have Ledgerwood in that role. Beda might actually be a good pick for this role until he learns the back line.
Defense? Kurz has GOT to stop the carousel in the back. Stick with Ghvinianidze and Thordant in the middle. They need time to gel back there. The wings continue to be the issue. Hoffman did OK on one side but is not a wing back. Johnson can handle it. Let this be the kid's learning year. When Benny comes back get him on the left, Fabian on the right. The defense will show confidence when the coach has confidence in them. The fact he changed twice in two games when not forced to do so due to injury does not bode well.
In addition to the bad passes which seem to be a big problem this season, the number of lost challenges (especially in the air) were very noticeable. I did not keep stats but I will wager a Mass that we lost more than 70% of all aerial balls and likely 60% of all other challenges.

[LoewenBoy]

Tschauner (3): I'd say this is accurate. He came up big on a few saves, did not make any bone head errors and was left hanging on the two goals.
Thorandt (4,5): Well, I would have scape-goated him for the first goal. Overall he was just not there. I would have given him a 5.
Beda (4,5): Same as Thorandt. Played out of position, lost too many air balls, poor passing, etc. 5.
Berhalter (5,5): Too harsh. He was a solid 5. Scape-goating him for the goals I think.
T. Hoffmann (4,5): Not THAT bad. Would have given him a 4. He was CLEARLY better than the other three.
S. Bender (4): He was not around. Late tackles, did not close down challenges 30m out, poor passing.
D. Schwarz (5): Spot on...he was NO WHERE.
Gebhart (3,5): I'd buy this. He was pretty active and showed promise, but really needs to step up.
Bierofka (4): Harsh I think. Would have given 3,5. Not as impressive as he was teh week before, but if you are not getting support around you kind of hard to rise above.
Kucukovic (4): Accurate. He was not all that sucky. The thing that gets me is he is a walking liability. He just seems to be a powderkeg ready to explode and cost us the match with his temper and play. For a guy with his height he should be able to win more balls. Just frequently out of position.
Lauth (3): Think a 3 was generous. A 3,5 of 4 would have been better. While he did not suck he just was absent in the first half. The tricky passing and dribbling we saw last week just was not there. Almost seemed like he was afraid of looking like a ball hog. When he DID have the ball he showed some nice signs of helping to develop play. Can't wait for him and Goektan to gel.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Looks like there's a different kicker rater for 1860...harsh on Gregg for once ;)

[LoewenBoy]

Looks like there's a different kicker rater for 1860...harsh on Gregg for once ;)
Yeah I think way too harsh. He had as many bad passes and other muffs as the rest of the back line. For my money you don't punish someone for a goal caused by TWO other guys being WAY out of position. Beda was caught up playing midfield and Thorandt was not covering his mark.

Now, did Gregg misplay the guy? Absolutely. But he would not have been in that situation had the other two been doing their job.

You guys know I can be harsh on Gregg, but in this case he is being scapegoated. Much to his credit, he is accepting it and moving on. Privately he is pissed at the other two I'll bet. I would be.:mad:

[footyfan1]

Yeah I think way too harsh. He had as many bad passes and other muffs as the rest of the back line. For my money you don't punish someone for a goal caused by TWO other guys being WAY out of position. Beda was caught up playing midfield and Thorandt was not covering his mark.

Now, did Gregg misplay the guy? Absolutely. But he would not have been in that situation had the other two been doing their job.

You guys know I can be harsh on Gregg, but in this case he is being scapegoated. Much to his credit, he is accepting it and moving on. Privately he is pissed at the other two I'll bet. I would be.:mad:


I have to agree.

When I first saw the play, I thought, "F#ck! The old Gregg is back!"

But after seeing the play again, it was clear that he could have done better, but he had been hung out to dry by his defensive mates.