Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 [R]

[LoewenBoy]

Publicly Reuter says Hoffy doesn't want to pay 3M for him.

Honestly, I am not sure he is worth that based on his play. Based on his potential = yes, but honestly his play has not been all that inspiring. Of course, most of his playing time came in the rueckrunde last season when the best 1860 person was the Bier vendor in Section 134. I also think Reuter can afford to play it tight because he has two years left on a contract. For me, Gebhart is like Adler, Lehrmann or Goerlitz: he has TONS of potential and will certainly play 1.BL some day, but he is not worth too much right now.

I think SAPheim is playing it smart. Besdies, 1860 has close ties scouting-wise with them. We got two players for the IIs for little to nothing. Who knows, there may be stuff behind the curtains no one knows. Politically Reuter would be drawn and quartered if he gave up anyone right now as we have a good depth....except at striker.

[LoewenBoy]

Good news is they played well. Bad news is Kusuckovic keeps scoring which means people are going to think he can score in the 2.BL when he cannot. My hope is he continues his form. Bet that does not pan out....again.

http://www.tsv1860.de/de/saison/profis/testspiele/2008/testspiel_2008-07-16_slavia_sofia.php

[footyfan1]

Honestly, I am not sure he is worth that based on his play. Based on his potential = yes, but honestly his play has not been all that inspiring. Of course, most of his playing time came in the rueckrunde last season when the best 1860 person was the Bier vendor in Section 134. I also think Reuter can afford to play it tight because he has two years left on a contract.

That and I think they will actually need Gebhart this season.


For me, Gebhart is like Adler, Lehrmann or Goerlitz: he has TONS of potential and will certainly play 1.BL some day, but he is not worth too much right now.

Some will pay for that potential......

I'm not surprised that Hoffy would balk at 3M. People just want to believe they are Germany's "Chelsea" and they are not.

Sure, they've got a rich "Sugar Daddy", but SAP isn't behind them. They are being smart with Mr. Hopp's money.

However, if Gebhart has a good season this coming season, Hoffy might want to pay that 3M and maybe more.

I wouldn't be surprised if my club is one of Gebhart's suitors if he has a good season this coming season. Of course, for us, it will depend on how Nuri Sahin and Tomas Hajnal do too.


I think SAPheim is playing it smart. Besdies, 1860 has close ties scouting-wise with them. We got two players for the IIs for little to nothing. Who knows, there may be stuff behind the curtains no one knows. Politically Reuter would be drawn and quartered if he gave up anyone right now as we have a good depth....except at striker.

This one might not be over.......

Especially if Gebhart has a big U-19 tourney.

[footyfan1]

Good news is they played well. Bad news is Kusuckovic keeps scoring which means people are going to think he can score in the 2.BL when he cannot. My hope is he continues his form. Bet that does not pan out....again.

http://www.tsv1860.de/de/saison/profis/testspiele/2008/testspiel_2008-07-16_slavia_sofia.php


Nearly exactly what I write about Nelson Valdez!!

Only I use more four-letter words! LOL!! ;) :D

[russ99]

It's probably too early to speculate, but I think 1860 has a decent shot for promotion.

They have a decent roster of players, and the coaching/managing part of things is pretty solid. Also the competition isn't as brutal as in past years.

It will all depend on 3 factors:

Good health of key players, which was our downfall last season despite a very good Hinrunde.

Steady goalkeeping - either give the job to Hofmann, or find a way to grow a brain on Tschauner

Successful integration of new players/kids into the squad. I'm especially intrigued as to how Gebhard does after such high exposure, and also how solid our new central defender is. Maybe we won't be able to pick on Gregg for too much longer. :p

It would kill me if we got a top 3 place but lost in the playoff...

BTW: Someone please change the header, it's Einmal (once), not Ein mal (a mark). :D

[City Dave]

BTW: Someone please change the header, it's Einmal (once), not Ein mal (a mark). :D

I was wondering about that. I thought it was just me interpreting it incorrectly. It's been over a decade since I've had any serious study in the language.

[footyfan1]

It's probably too early to speculate, but I think 1860 has a decent shot for promotion.

Things would have to go near perfectly and Lauth would have to finally remember how to put the ball in the net.


They have a decent roster of players, and the coaching/managing part of things is pretty solid. Also the competition isn't as brutal as in past years.

It isn't?? Let's see.

I think all of these teams are better than 1860 on paper:

1. FC Nürnberg
MSV Duisburg
Hansa Rostock
SC Freiburg
1. FSV Mainz 05


I think these teams were better than 1860 last season, but 1860 may have caught up with them some (meaning I think these teams are still a bit better):

SpVgg Greuther Fürth
Alemannia Aachen


I think these teams finished in front of 1860 last season, but may or may not be as good as 1860 now:

FC St. Pauli
SV Wehen-Wiesbaden
TuS Koblenz (who will have three points docked for breaking the conditions of their license this past season)


These teams finished behind 1860 last season, but I think have strengthened a bit more than 1860:

1. FC Kaiserslautern
FC Augsburg


I think it will be just as hard as last season, if not harder. Don't let the fact that two big names and Hoffenheim aren't there anymore. Two pretty good teams got relegated and Rostock won't be a pushover either.

It will all depend on 3 factors:

Good health of key players, which was our downfall last season despite a very good Hinrunde.

That's mostly what I meant above when I said "things would have to go near perfectly."


Steady goalkeeping - either give the job to Hofmann, or find a way to grow a brain on Tschauner

Make that consistently good defense and you've got a deal. If the defense sucks, it won't matter if Oliver freakin' Kahn comes out of retirement to play goal for Sechzig.


Successful integration of new players/kids into the squad. I'm especially intrigued as to how Gebhard does after such high exposure, and also how solid our new central defender is.

Beda? Dude, he doesn't SUCK, but there's also a reason he was available on a free......


Maybe we won't be able to pick on Gregg for too much longer. :p

We stopped picking on Gregg last season! LOL!!

But I don't expect to see much of him next season.


It would kill me if we got a top 3 place but lost in the playoff...

I'd consider it a minor miracle if 1860 finishes in the top three. But if everything falls into place, why not?

I would consider a playoff loss a great achievement for the season and great experience for a young team.



BTW: Someone please change the header, it's Einmal (once), not Ein mal (a mark). :D

True! Any mods out there??!!

EDIT: It was done while I was typing that response. Which took me longer because I was watching Hertha's UEFA Cup qualifying match.

[Dead Fingers]

I thought I fixed it?

[footyfan1]

I thought I fixed it?

You did. And I edited my message. ;)

[Dead Fingers]

You did. And I edited my message. ;)

Man, I am having weird mod day.

[Floormaster Squeeze]

Looks like 1860 has all of Bulgaria on the run. Lars Bender scores one (and it sounds like Gebhart was a big part of the action as well) in Germany's 3-0 defeat of Bulgaria in Euro U19.

[LoewenBoy]

Looks like 1860 has all of Bulgaria on the run. Lars Bender scores one (and it sounds like Gebhart was a big part of the action as well) in Germany's 3-0 defeat of Bulgaria in Euro U19.
Here's the report on the 1860 website. (http://www.tsv1860.de/de/aktuell/news/2008/news_2008-07-17_u19-em.php) Lars had one goal and an assist, his brother got in the second half and Gebhart played the whole match, as did Jungwirth. They play Hungary for top group honors Sunday.

Let's hope they come back HEALTHY. Gee, bet Toni Kroos wishes he could have been there to be part of that success.:D

[Projekt4]

Yes Lars Bender was very good, but 1860er Jungwirth is also part of an outstanding defensive block, worthy of praise.

[LoewenBoy]

Yes Lars Bender was very good, but 1860er Jungwirth is also part of an outstanding defensive block, worthy of praise.
Exactly. Jungwirth is going to be interesting to watch. With 1860 having bought Beda, and with Thorandt his usual spotty self and Torben and Gregg being too old/slow for the middle, it will be interesting to see if Jungwirth gets a nod or two in the middle. Mate has been good, when healthy. My guess for a replacement is Thorandt....but is Jungwirth as good in the air, that's the question.

[LoewenBoy]

Burkhard was lent out to RW Ahlen (2.BL) for a training test. He spent the week there instead of at 1860's camp. They got great reports on him but the club president said at the end of the week they had no budget for Burkhard. That pissed Kurz off for a few reasons: 1) the kid missed the whole week by 1860, and 2) had he gotten injured in a useless week's worth of test driving, 1860's depth chart would have been f'd. Makes you wonder why they sent the kid in the first place. He is the best all-arounder we have. Story here (http://www.tsv1860.de/de/aktuell/news/2008/news_2008-07-21_tl.php).
U19 national team (3-0-0) beat Hungary (2-0-1) to make the semifinals of the U19 EM. Lars/Sven Bender, Gebhardt and Jungwirth were in the starting line up. Lars was pulled at the half. Score was 2-1. They now play the Czechs (1-1-1) while Hungary plays the Italians (1-2-0). Story here (http://www.tsv1860.de/de/aktuell/news/2008/news_2008-07-20_u19-em.php). U19 website here (http://de.uefa.com/competitions/under19/index.html). Semi to be played on Wednesday.
The test match this weekend against Czech first division side Boleslav went 1-0 to 1860 with Holebas scoring in the 85th. Hoffmann played the whole game in goal (VERY interesting). Florian Jungwirth, Sven Bender, Timo Gebhart, Lars Bender were at the U19 EM. Mate Ghvinianidze, Markus Schroth are still in rehab. Christoph Burkhard was at RW Ahlen. Berkant Göktan, Benjamin Lauth and Julian Baumgartlinger were not available due to muscle problems picked up in training. Story here (http://www.tsv1860.de/de/saison/profis/testspiele/2008/testspiel_1860_boleslav_200708.php).

[LoewenBoy]

The U19 team with our 4 players took out the Czechs 2-1 in extra time and now face the Italians in the final on Saturday. Bet Kroos is wishing he had played with the EM team now and not Bayern in their 1-2 loss to BVB. Congrats Keith. :D

Also, Jungwirth received the silver for the U19 Fritz Walter award. The kid is in pretty good company.

Die Gewinner der Fritz-Walter-Medaillen 2008

U19 (Jahrgang 1989)
1. Dennis Diekmeier (Werder Bremen)
2. Florian Jungwirth (TSV 1860 München)
3. Marcel Risse (Bayer Leverkusen)

U18 (Jahrgang 1990)
1. Toni Kroos (FC Bayern München)
2. Sebastian Rudy (VfB Stuttgart)
3. Richard Sukuta-Pasu (Bayer Leverkusen)

U17 (Jahrgang 1991)
1. Manuel Gulde (TSG 1899 Hoffenheim)
2. Lennart Hartmann (Hertha BSC Berlin)
3. Shervin Radjabali Fardi (Hertha BSC Berlin)

Juniorinnen
1. Jana Burmeister (Jahrgang 1989, FF USV Jena)
2. Kim Kulig (Jahrgang 1990, VfL Sindelfingen)
3. Valeria Kleiner (Jahrgang 1991, SC Freiburg)

[goindownsouth]

The youth Sechzig seems to have built up so far will only go to pay dividends if they want to and are able to keep them and make a run at 1.BL. Combine that youth with the veterans on the side including Benny Lauth, hoping he can still find the back of the net. I am not sure if it will be this term, but if not soon, Sechzig may not be able to keep the young talent and they may be sold off to the bigger clubs.

Personally, I would love to see a nice, long sustained run at 1.BL by Sechzig.

Yes? No? Perhaps?

[LoewenBoy]

Personally, I would love to see a nice, long sustained run at 1.BL by Sechzig.

Yes? No? Perhaps?
That's the $100,000 question: Can 1860 sustain anything good over more than 20 games. They have been plagued by absolutely horrid return-leg seasons for the past 3 years. The seasons before that, since relegation, have seen them finish in the top 4 or 5...just out of reach. I would like to see them in the top 5 and healthy at Xmas; then come out of the winter with 9 points from the first 5 games. That will go a long way in disproving they are a one-round team.

[LoewenBoy]

The Germans contolled the game very well. Both Benders, Gebhart and Jungwirth started. Lars scored the first goal and Gebhart the last. Up 1-0 Jungwirth was booked twice inside of 5 minutes and left in the 38th. Despite being down a man they went up 2-0 in the 61st. Gentiili was sent off in the 70th for what must have been abusive language to the referee. He was being cautioned when he must have said something deserving of a red. Eight minutes later Garibaldi pulled one back only to have Gebhart close the door hard in the 80th.

Story in German here (http://de.uefa.com/competitions/under19/fixturesresults/round=15038/match=302554/report=pr.html). In English here (http://www.uefa.com/competitions/under19/fixturesresults/round=15038/match=302554/report=rp.html).

[russ99]

That's the $100,000 question: Can 1860 sustain anything good over more than 20 games. They have been plagued by absolutely horrid return-leg seasons for the past 3 years. The seasons before that, since relegation, have seen them finish in the top 4 or 5...just out of reach. I would like to see them in the top 5 and healthy at Xmas; then come out of the winter with 9 points from the first 5 games. That will go a long way in disproving they are a one-round team.

I also think a lot of the return-leg issues are most due to he club being broke at the Winterpause and not bringing in those 2-3 players to shore up injury-plagued positions that the better 2. Liga sides always seem to do.

Also, when injury strikes, often those positions are turned over to kids who in a sense are learning on the job.

While the roster seems stronger this season, especially so with the success of our kids on the U19 national team (congrats for the Euromeisterschaft :D), I'm not sure if the club is yet strong enough or has any budget left to overcome those usual second-half woes.

If they can put together a full high-quality season, I have no doubt they have a great shot at being promoted, and I 'd personally love to see what Reuter/Kurz could do with a Bundesliga-sized budget. I think they could poke a huge hole in the Wildmoser/Lorant legend.