Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 [R]

[footyfan1]

If he was MoM, shouldn't he have a rating higher than lars bender?


Squid. Read more carefully dude.

Garry said Gebhart would have been HIS Man of the Match. Those were not Garry's ratings, those were the Kicker ratings that Garry added his comments to.

Not that it means anything, but I agree with Garry. My MoM would have been Gebhart too.

[squidward123]

oh, good point! I thought they were his ratings

[LoewenBoy]

Damn, dude....I will try to respond...;)

I have to agree. I haven't seen the replay yet, but when Zecke hit it, I thought it was going wide. I didn't realize it was even near going in until I saw Tschauner going after it.
Nicest goal I have seen in a while. Lifetime shot for most players.

Except for a family of 1860 fans right behind me, it seemed nearly the entire section was full of Ingolstadt fans.
31,000 fans and I will be half were Ingolstaedters going to Wies'n after the match.

I didn't get a good view of the apparent hand ball in the Ingolstadt penalty area, but I did get a good view of Lokvenc going down. From my angle, I thought it was a penalty. I turned and said to my girlfriend, "Sechzig lucked out there!"
There were two actually. The first was on the left side of the area near the 5m box but that was ball to hand. The second one was on the other side of the box on a header from Lauth near the end. THAT one was a bit more questionable. The lack of a call on Berhalter's mugging of Lokvenc is true, but Lokvenc does himself no favors by going down like piece of paper for most of the match. When you are that tall you cannot flop. That has always been his problem. He makes every attempt to stay on his feet and the ref makes that call 100% of the time.

When I saw Gebhart going off, I expected a defensive sub. When Holebas went on, I said to my buddy Frank, "If he's going to put Holebas in, why the hell did he leave Lauth out there? Why not take out crappy ass Lauth?
EXACTLY! The last 15 mins Gebhart was out there he really showed signs of what he can become. He was everywhere. His attacking kept Istadt from countering too fast.

One thing I would add. Lauth had a chance in the second half that I'm still flabbergasted by the fact that he didn't put it away.
At his level you put those away....no question.


But I also have to remember the hustling play Lauth made in the first half, keeping a ball from going over the end line and getting a cross toward the open Ingolstadt goal, but no other Sechzig player was there to put it away.
Repped him for that and blamed my boy Schaeffler for giving up. That should have been 1-0.


From where I sat, 1860 dominated the first half and small phases of the second half. Ingolstadt came back strong in the second half. They fought hard, never gave up and were rewarded.
No argument. My point about the game is simply that Istadt had few chances. I honestly beleive that if that Zwecke shot goes wide there is no fire to ignite the last 10 mins of play like there was. Heck, 1860 had two that hit the post after the equalizer. I thought Schaeffler was going to bury his shot. Lauth missed the 1v1 which, IMHO, he should have taken full speed further left, they slotted home. He got too cute.

In my opinion, 1860 only have themselves to blame for not putting that match away when they had the chance.
No argument.

[footyfan1]

Damn, dude....I will try to respond...;)

And you did well! LOL!!


Nicest goal I have seen in a while. Lifetime shot for most players.

I agree. Zecke Neuendorf will probably never do that again, even though if I remember properly, he had a couple of goals like that in Leverkusen and Berlin. However, while that was the goal they got, they had good chances for others. My contention/point is that Ingolstadt played a little better than you were giving them credit for.


31,000 fans and I will be half were Ingolstaedters going to Wies'n after the match.

Many fans acted like they'd been to the Wies'n before the match. I went after the match. We got lucky and got a seat outside the Pschorr-Bräurosl. I'm sorry if some will find this comment "sexist", but that fest will give any man a whole new appreciation of the word "breasts" (substitute a four-letter word starting with "t" and ending with "s" ;) )

Garry, I'll mail you privately about the one at our table. I got into some trouble with the girlfriend.....



There were two actually. The first was on the left side of the area near the 5m box but that was ball to hand. The second one was on the other side of the box on a header from Lauth near the end. THAT one was a bit more questionable. The lack of a call on Berhalter's mugging of Lokvenc is true, but Lokvenc does himself no favors by going down like piece of paper for most of the match. When you are that tall you cannot flop. That has always been his problem. He makes every attempt to stay on his feet and the ref makes that call 100% of the time.

Agree on Lokvenc. That is why I was not totally surprised when he didn't get the call. I totally understand why he didn't get it. However, his reputation for flopping is really not a good excuse for not giving the guy a call he actually deserves.

I get it. I understand why he didn't get the call. However, again, that doesn't make it right. I thought the same thing earlier this season when Luca Toni didn't get a deserved call that would have given them a victory over us.

Sure, I took your stance on it. But I also said that just because Toni is a "diving c#nt", it doesn't mean he shouldn't get calls when he deserves them.

Referees cannot simply refuse to give these guys calls.

Again, why they don't get them is totally understandable. Doesn't make it right.



EXACTLY! The last 15 mins Gebhart was out there he really showed signs of what he can become. He was everywhere. His attacking kept Istadt from countering too fast.

Yes, I know. It reminded me of last season in Dortmund when Giovanni Federico would be getting into a match and Doll would yank him for no good reason at all.

I hope Gebhart handles it better than Federico. Federico still hasn't gotten over his treatment from Doll.

I know you told me I was wrong when I suspected there is something wrong between Gebhart and Kurz.

But I just don't get it. Why won't Kurz put him out there and stick with him?

I guess we'll see if Gebhart is the next talent to leave 1860 after next season.

I do think there will be a line of 1. BL clubs throwing money at that kid.


At his level (Lauth's) you put those away....no question.

Dude, I would expect Katie to put that one away. I was already standing to cheer!


Repped him for that (Lauth's hustle play) and blamed my boy Schaeffler for giving up. That should have been 1-0.

Well, I didn't blame just Schaeffler for giving up on the play. I think most of them did.


No argument. My point about the game is simply that Istadt had few chances. I honestly beleive that if that Zwecke shot goes wide there is no fire to ignite the last 10 mins of play like there was.

Dude, perhaps you needed to be there. Ingolstadt was playing hard that entire match. On the ball and away from the ball. Those guys knew they were playing a better, more talented side and worked their asses off for that point.

1860 imposed their will at first, but Ingolstadt never stopped fighting. Maybe you couldn't see that with the TV action usually on the ball, but those guys fought HARD! From minute one, they were fighting.

Ingolstadt may not have had many "chances", but they created quite a few anxious moments for 1860's back line and I can think of at least three shots they had that just missed Tschauner's goal. Plus there was the one Holebas cleared off the line near the end of the match.

Quite a few of those times Ingolstadt just couldn't find that "final pass."

I said in my last message, 1860 was the "better" team.

Yes, that is true, but Ingolstadt fought them for 90 minutes and in my opinion, that draw was not "lucky" for Ingolstadt or "unfortunate" for 1860. I thought that draw was earned and justified.

Just because Ingolstadt's goal came on a "Sonntagsschuss", doesn't make that any less true.

Again, I feel 1860 got just what they deserved.

As I said before, we all know that on any given day, a fighting, but "lesser talented" team can take points from a "better" team. We've seen it quite a lot.

Especially if you're a Dortmund fan! LMAO! :D



Heck, 1860 had two that hit the post after the equalizer.

So what? And again, Holebas had to clear a shot off the line. That's closer than hitting the post. But as we in the military love to say, "'Close' only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades."


I thought Schaeffler was going to bury his shot. Lauth missed the 1v1 which, IMHO, he should have taken full speed further left, they slotted home. He got too cute.

I'd say he got "too Lauth." Which means he was crap on the play and I thought except for a couple of plays he was crap the entire match.

When I say "a couple of plays", I forgot the bicycle kick he tried for the first goal chance of the match. That was a nice try.

[LoewenBoy]

I'm sorry if some will find this comment "sexist", but that fest will give any man a whole new appreciation of the word "breasts" (substitute a four-letter word starting with "t" and ending with "s" ;) )
There is a Bavarian phrase that says "the mountains always come closer to the City of Muenchen when the Wies'n is there".

http://www.br-online.de/content/cms/Bildergalerie/2008/09/29/cumulus/BR-online-Publikation--208643-20080929150430.jpg</IMG> (http://www.br-online.de/br/jsp/seitentyp/bildergalerie.jsp;jsessionid=JRZ0JL5MGBMU0CSBUKSCM4Q?idx=0&id=1222700535642)

I know you told me I was wrong when I suspected there is something wrong between Gebhart and Kurz. But I just don't get it. Why won't Kurz put him out there and stick with him?
Kurz has a reputation with the younger players of "protecting" them from the pressure of putting the entire club's weight on their shoulders. I think the Benders are playing better with the split time they are getting. Gebhart is starting now and showing that he can go nearly a full match and still have ideas. His skills in the second half only seemed to get better. I expect Kurz to continue to "develop" Gebhart. He is under contract until 2010. My guess is the phone calls will start in the spring if he continues playing well and he will likely be gone before winter next year. 1860 will not want to lose money on that investment.

[LoewenBoy]

With the team playing so scheissy the latest "chicks in grass" vote is the most interesting thing on the website. I guess I am a bad German, I go for the plainer ones. For me it was Marie-Christian, though it was a coin toss between her and Daniela.

Marie-Christin
http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/6_loewenfans/rasenhasen/03_ingolstadt/Marie_Christin_180.jpg

Mandy
http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/6_loewenfans/rasenhasen/03_ingolstadt/Mandy_180.jpg

Daniela
http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/6_loewenfans/rasenhasen/03_ingolstadt/Daniela_180.jpg

[panicfc]

Daniella would get my vote.

[LoewenBoy]

Here are a few articles to read. Use Google Translator if you need it.

http://www.tz-online.de/de/sport/tsv1860/artikel_47777.html

http://www.abendzeitung.de/sport/tsv_1860/56544

http://translate.google.com/translate_t?hl=en#

[LoewenBoy]

Each year during the Oktoberfest the team visits the Wies'n and enjoys some fun. This year, however, Lurz has put the word out that 1) no alcohol is to be had, and 2) the team will only go to the event to fulfill its appearance obligation. He also noted that he did not want to see "celebrating", but rather a more subdued tone to the team...lest the fans think the team is not serious about their job.

Pics here (http://www.tsv1860.de/de/aktuell/news/2008/newws_2008-09-30_wiesnbesuch_2008.php). I always like seeing who bought who. Seems one of the Benders is doing alright for himself, as is Torben. :D

[footyfan1]

Each year during the Oktoberfest the team visits the Wies'n and enjoys some fun. This year, however, Lurz has put the word out that 1) no alcohol is to be had, and 2) the team will only go to the event to fulfill its appearance obligation. He also noted that he did not want to see "celebrating", but rather a more subdued tone to the team...lest the fans think the team is not serious about their job.

Pics here (http://www.tsv1860.de/de/aktuell/news/2008/newws_2008-09-30_wiesnbesuch_2008.php). I always like seeing who bought who. Seems one of the Benders is doing alright for himself, as is Torben. :D


Thanks for that Garry!!

But I think it's bullshit that they won't let the guys drink. Maybe cutting loose for a night is what some of them need! LOL!! :D

So, I guess that's alkoholfrei they have in the mass steins?!

Dude, I think both Benders are doing all right, but yes, the one with the blonde seems to be doing "better...." LOL!!

Agree with you on Torsten. Tschauner's wasn't bad either.

I thought Benny's frau was hot too.

[footyfan1]

There is a rumor at Transfermarkt.de which quotes a printed "Bild" article you apparently can't find on line yet, saying that 1860 is in talks to sign 29 year-old German/Moroccan offensive midfielder Youssef Mokhtari.

Mokhtari is without a club right now, so 1860 could sign him and play him right away.

Mokhtari has played in the 2nd Bundesliga for Wacker Burghausen, Energie Cottbus and MSV Duisburg.

He has played in the 1st Bundesliga with 1. FC Koln and part of last season with Duisburg.

In seven 1. BL appearances with MSV Duisburg last season, he had a goal and an assist. However, he had huge problems with Bommer and management and moved to Qatar during the winter break.

Mokhtari's 2nd Bundesliga numbers are much better. In 2006/2007, in the 2nd Bundesliga with MSV Duisburg, he had 12 goals and 10 assists in 32 appearances. He also earned 9 yellow cards.

The season before that, he had no goals and 6 assists in 13 1st Bundesliga appearances for 1. FC Koln.

What am I saying? If Mokhtari is healthy and in shape, 1860 would be F#CKING STUPID not to sign this guy.

Signing him would allow the club to move Göktan back to striker or go completely offensive in midfield with Bierofka, Göktan and Mokhtari. The bad thing is, the one to go to the bench would be Lars Bender.


Maybe something like I have below?? I would switch Göktan and Mokhtari when Göktan is out of the lineup, putting Lars Bender in Mokhtari's place.

Take a look.


===========================Tschauner=================================


Johnson==============Gregg===============Mate================B. Schwarz



==========================Ledgerwood/Beda===========================



==========Bierofka=====================================Mokhtari=======



=============================Göktan================================



================Lauth========================Schaeffler===============

[LoewenBoy]

But I think it's bullshit that they won't let the guys drink. Maybe cutting loose for a night is what some of them need! LOL!! :D
I will bet PRIVATELY Kurz let them but publically was worried about the siginal it might send.


So, I guess that's alkoholfrei they have in the mass steins?!

Apparentely so.

Dude, I think both Benders are doing all right, but yes, the one with the blonde seems to be doing "better...." LOL!!
Agreed. I remember those days....barely. Thought it was funny the pic of Ledgerwood and Schaeffler arriving sans dates. Single guys in Muenchen keeping their options open....loved it.

Agree with you on Torsten. Tschauner's wasn't bad either.
Tschauner not married...must be Chick des Monat. Torben is doing fine for himself.

I thought Benny's frau was hot too.
Funny, first reaction was, "Hey, where'd Benny get the ex-porn actress? Must be from Hannover.":D

[LoewenBoy]

===========================Tschauner=================================


Johnson==============Gregg===============Mate================B. Schwarz



==========================Ledgerwood/Beda===========================



==========Bierofka=====================================Mokhtari=======



=============================Göktan================================



================Lauth========================Schaeffler===============
Damn you and I think alike. As soon as I read the interview with Mokhtari I said to myself he would be a great filler in on the wing or behind the forwards until Goektan gets heatlhy. Honestly, I think you sign the guy and immediately get him in the line-up. Keep Gebhart slotted behing the forwards and let Beda and Ledgerwood duke it out for the #6 spot. For my money its Ledgerwood.

At some point though Berhalter is going to have to sit and Eberlein get his start. Gregg is under contract until June and we need to get Eberlein some playing time at the 2.BL level. When you look at the YOUTH on that field it is amazing to see what 1860 can become if these young players live up to potential. Onley Lauth, Beda, Berhalter and Bierofka are over 26....the rest are well under that. Damn nice to see.

[footyfan1]

Damn you and I think alike. As soon as I read the interview with Mokhtari I said to myself he would be a great filler in on the wing or behind the forwards until Goektan gets heatlhy.

Dude, if Mokhtari is healthy and in shape, you don't worry about Göktan. Mokhtari would have to get used to playing again, but when he does, he's better than Göktan in my opinion.


Honestly, I think you sign the guy and immediately get him in the line-up. Keep Gebhart slotted behing the forwards and let Beda and Ledgerwood duke it out for the #6 spot. For my money its Ledgerwood.

Agree totally.


At some point though Berhalter is going to have to sit and Eberlein get his start. Gregg is under contract until June and we need to get Eberlein some playing time at the 2.BL level.

I think that should not happen before the final weeks of the season and only if Eberlein deserves it, not because it's his turn. He should be made to unseat Gregg or Beda, not be handed the position.

That can be determined in training.


When you look at the YOUTH on that field it is amazing to see what 1860 can become if these young players live up to potential. Onley Lauth, Beda, Berhalter and Bierofka are over 26....the rest are well under that. Damn nice to see.

Yeah, but they'd have to find a way to keep them all.......

[LoewenBoy]

Michael Hofmann: Will be interesting to see if they extend another year with him. He is good and cheap, but does not send a good signal to the other keepers that they have a shot higher up.
Gregg Berhalter: Already extended a year, I think the extend again. He is not expensive and he knows his career is on life support at his age.
Florian Jungwirth: I think you HAVE to try to extend this kid. But if an offer comes you need to think it through.
Markus Thorandt: Punt....deep and long. Bye-bye.
Christoph Burkhard: Once a rising talent, not developing fast enough. Sell if an offer comes.
Benjamin Schwarz: Keep at all friggin costs.
Julian Baumgartlinger: Keep but if an offer comes sell.
Alexander Eberlein: Dunno....but for now, keep.
Danny Schwarz: Should be cheap at his age....keep but put on bench.
Nick Ledgerwood: I say keep but others in the german forum not keen on him. But these are likely the same people who think Kurz sucks and should be fired. I say keep.
Jose Holebas: Dunno. Not living up to his potential....not like Gebhart and Schaeffler.
Manuel Schäffler: Keep....for God's Sake, keep!!!
Markus Schroth: Heart says keep, wallet says have an Abschiedspiel and say goodbye.

[footyfan1]

Contracts up in 2009....who should stay?


OK. I think when you wrote this, you didn't remember that if their contracts expire after this current season, which they do, these guys can sign for new clubs on free transfers for next season during the January transfer window.

1860 will not "sell" any of these guys unless some club wants one of them to join during the January transfer window.

Basically, what I'm telling you is that 1860 doesn't control squat when it comes to these guys.

If someone else comes for them for next season, 1860 gets nothing.

Let's look at them now.


Michael Hofmann: Will be interesting to see if they extend another year with him. He is good and cheap, but does not send a good signal to the other keepers that they have a shot higher up.


What you say about it not sending a good signal to the younger keepers is true. But if 1860 feels one of them is not ready to back up Tschauner, then what is 1860 to do??



Gregg Berhalter: Already extended a year, I think the extend again. He is not expensive and he knows his career is on life support at his age.

I think you keep Gregg around. He's cheap, he seems to want to be at Sechzig and he can be useful on the bench or in the starting 11.


Florian Jungwirth: I think you HAVE to try to extend this kid. But if an offer comes you need to think it through.


I don't profess to know much about him, but I haven't heard of any demand for him either. I'm thinking he's going to stay.


Markus Thorandt: Punt....deep and long. Bye-bye.

Can't you see him in Unterhaching red and blue next season??


Christoph Burkhard: Once a rising talent, not developing fast enough. Sell if an offer comes.

Probably one who will stick with Sechzig and he'll have nowhere else to go.


Benjamin Schwarz: Keep at all friggin costs.

I would have told you that I would honestly be pushing Dortmund to come get him. But we found our own left back talent in Marcel Schmelzer.

Reuter should be working on extending this kid NOW! However, if Schwarz has a smart agent, they are exploring all options and won't be quick to extend with 1860.

He's the type of kid Rangnick would want at Hoffenheim and I'm quite sure every team who wins promotion will take a look.


Julian Baumgartlinger: Keep but if an offer comes sell.

I don't see anyone coming for this one. Clubs like Unterhaching (if they move up) and Ingolstadt (if they stay up) may try to "raid" Sechzig, but this is one who should stay.


Alexander Eberlein: Dunno....but for now, keep.

Don't think there's any danger of anyone coming for him.


Danny Schwarz: Should be cheap at his age....keep but put on bench.

I'd say the same for him that you said about Hofmann.....


Nick Ledgerwood: I say keep but others in the german forum not keen on him. But these are likely the same people who think Kurz sucks and should be fired. I say keep.

I say keep him too. You know what I think about the word from "fan forums"...... ;)


Jose Holebas: Dunno. Not living up to his potential....not like Gebhart and Schaeffler.

I see nothing special there. Would just be a fall back if Schäffler gets away......


Manuel Schäffler: Keep....for God's Sake, keep!!!

It might not be within their control. If someone else moves for him, I think he's gone.

But I don't know that others are as impressed with him as Sechzig fans are. But I definitely see the potential.


Markus Schroth: Heart says keep, wallet says have an Abschiedspiel and say goodbye.

Totally agree.

[LoewenBoy]

Lederwood is sitting for his Y/R, Thorandt is out with a stomach virus, Schwarz is still injured, Biero is questionable with a "muscle problem", and a few others are out. Clearly we are playing for a point here. Urgh.:mad:

http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/aufstellungen/fsvf-1860.jpg

[footyfan1]

Lederwood is sitting for his Y/R, Thorandt is out with a stomach virus, Schwarz is still injured, Biero is questionable with a "muscle problem", and a few others are out. Clearly we are playing for a point here. Urgh.:mad:

http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/aufstellungen/fsvf-1860.jpg



Dude, that's still a good starting 11.

I don't know why you're lowering expectations, but I will say if they go in there thinking the way you are, they're already beaten.

FSV is very tough at home. But if 1860 can play the way they did last week, but finish a chance or two, they can win this match.

Which Schwarz do you mean is still injured? Danny?

I ask because if so, I'm wondering why you mention guys who really haven't meant much of anything to this team this season like D. Schwarz and Thorandt??

Even if D. Schwarz could play, I wouldn't put him in this lineup.

I'm not going to say 1860 will go up there and win tonight. But I won't downplay their chances as you are either.

I think a draw is the most likely result, but not because 1860 is going to go up there and play for one.

I think they will play to win. Again, if they are thinking like you are, they're already doomed.

[panicfc]

Those are two of my favorite logos.

Does FSV still play in the dump of a stadium?

[footyfan1]

Does FSV still play in the dump of a stadium?


No. They are playing their 2. Liga matches at the Commerzbank Arena.