Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 [R]

[panicfc]

Guy for Duisberg shot over the bar. 1860's guys scored their PK's, but Bierofka's shot was lucky. That's the highlights ;)

[footyfan1]

Guy for Duisberg shot over the bar. 1860's guys scored their PK's, but Bierofka's shot was lucky. That's the highlights ;)

Cedric Makiadi is the guy who missed for Duisburg. I guess he was too dumb to notice that all he had to do to convert was slowly roll the ball to Tschauner's left! LOL!! :D

On Bierofka's shot, I screamed "NO!! NO!!" Then as it trickled over the line, I screamed, "YES, YES! YES!!"

If I had nosy neighbors, they were probably wondering what the F was going on! LOL!!

[LoewenBoy]

Guy for Duisberg shot over the bar. 1860's guys scored their PK's, but Bierofka's shot was lucky. That's the highlights ;)
Well, it may have been an ugly match but at least these guys look like they are truly fighting and trying to play with heart. THAT is a big thing. Plus, after literally handing the game Friday to Duisburg, ANY win, no matter how ugly, is going to feel good. It gets them to the next round and that is all that matters. More $$ and more time to pull things together. No more distractions.

On Thorandt: Appears Kurz listened and benched him for this. The back line was Johnson, Ghvinianidze, Berhalter, B. Schwarz. LoewenTV does not have it posted yet and not sure they will.

On Highlights: If I they post it I will see if I can get a few.

On Midfield: Keith, seems they played Beda in the middle. Would be interested on your take of how he played in midfield. He seems lost in central defense. Seems Kurz was willing to gamble with a new line-up in midfield with Gebhart, L. Bender, Beda and Bierofka. Guess it "paid off". But can it play well in the 2BL?

Striking: Schaeffler finally got the nod. Not sure how he played but Kurz left the boy in for 120. I hear that Schwarz and him teamed up for what could have been the game winner if not for the post. Lauth, who many no have to be disappointed with, was subbed for DiSalvo towards the end of regulation.:rolleyes:

Tschauner: On the plus side he have a shut out. On the minus side, the boy needs PK work but I do not blame him for letting 4 buy. Better keepers than he have been miserable PK stoppers.

Oh well, a win is a win no matter how ugly. And to a team with little to celebrate this is huge. I know Kurz won't let them celebrate too much. Next game is home against Ingolstadt on Sunday. Anything less than 3 points is not good for Kurz or the club.

[footyfan1]

Well, it may have been an ugly match but at least these guys look like they are truly fighting and trying to play with heart. THAT is a big thing. Plus, after literally handing the game Friday to Duisburg, ANY win, no matter how ugly, is going to feel good. It gets them to the next round and that is all that matters. More $$ and more time to pull things together. No more distractions.

I think you mean the St. Pauli game on Friday, right? One thing I didn't think of in my anger over that match is that it was a short week for them too.

Remember, they'd just played Duisburg that Monday.

I agree on the effort. It was there. It wasn't good football, but it was a good effort.

I wanted to post here last night that you were right about this Schaeffler kid, but I didn't think you would check here in case you got the game on Loewen TV.


On Thorandt: Appears Kurz listened and benched him for this. The back line was Johnson, Ghvinianidze, Berhalter, B. Schwarz. LoewenTV does not have it posted yet and not sure they will.

I thought the back line was all right. The midfield just isn't strong enough IMO.


On Midfield: Keith, seems they played Beda in the middle. Would be interested on your take of how he played in midfield. He seems lost in central defense. Seems Kurz was willing to gamble with a new line-up in midfield with Gebhart, L. Bender, Beda and Bierofka. Guess it "paid off". But can it play well in the 2BL?

It should work as Beda played some D-Mid at FCK. He can play that position in the 2. Liga, but I guess it doesn't help them that they brought him in to shore up the central defense.



Striking: Schaeffler finally got the nod. Not sure how he played but Kurz left the boy in for 120. I hear that Schwarz and him teamed up for what could have been the game winner if not for the post. Lauth, who many no have to be disappointed with, was subbed for DiSalvo towards the end of regulation.:rolleyes:

As I wrote above, I wanted to post here that I thought you were right about Schaeffler, but I didn't think you would be checking the thread.

Garry, remember when you used to describe Lauth by saying he ran all day like a puppy??

That's what Schaeffler reminded me of. The kid WORKED to create opportunities while his partner Lauth once again looked afraid to break a sweat.

Tschauner: On the plus side he have a shut out. On the minus side, the boy needs PK work but I do not blame him for letting 4 buy. Better keepers than he have been miserable PK stoppers.

Not that he had much to do with that shutout, but that is fact. He got the shutout.

No one "blamed" him for letting four past, but Garry, come on, you or I could get in there and flop the same way five times.

I wasn't the best keeper, but even I learned in high school how to try to read a shooter and try to figure out which way he would go.

I only stopped two of six penalties in school (to the best of my memory), but I didn't simply flop the same way every time, which is exactly what I believe Tschauner did.

He made a decent attempt at the first one. Hell, he came off his line before the shooter hit the ball, but after that, he just flopped right.


Oh well, a win is a win no matter how ugly. And to a team with little to celebrate this is huge. I know Kurz won't let them celebrate too much. Next game is home against Ingolstadt on Sunday. Anything less than 3 points is not good for Kurz or the club.

Usually, I never go with "a win is a win no matter how ugly", but in this case, I can. Sometimes you just need to get the job done just to know you can.

But right now, I only have one small problem with it. They've only proven they can beat Duisburg at the Allianz Arena.

Duisburg has proven they can only win at home.

On paper, 1860 should be able to beat Ingolstadt at the Allianz Arena as Ingolstadt has also only been able to win at home so far.

But as we all know, anything can happen in a Derby. And this is certainly a true "Bayern Derby" with Ingolstadt sitting just 30-40 minutes up the A9 from Munich, almost dead central between Munich and Nuernberg.

I'll be there and I'm taking Sechzig. But again, we all know anything can happen.

[LoewenBoy]

"A Typical Cup Fight" Says Reuter

Everyone agreed that the play at the 2nd DFB Cup round between 1860 Munich and MSV Duisburg had lacked class. However, for the self-confidence of the Lions and for the club's box office the 5:4 victory after penalty shootout is "worth its weight in gold." So are the voices of the game.

Shortly before midnight the two coaches gave a statement, diametrically opposed to game length. Lions coach Marco Kurz spoke of a game without clear chances on goal. "Ultimately one is always happy when you win in penalty shootout. The victory is very important for the club and the team. Had we still lost the penalty shootout, our self-confidence would have been on the ground. Overall, we are obviously very pleased." Duisburg coach Rudi Bommer saw his team through long stretches of the game at an advantage. "We were the better team, but lacked the ambition. It is always bitter when you lose in a penalty shootout." To address Cedric Makiadi, the only shooter to miss a penalty, there would be no blame. "Now we can totally concentrate on the championship," commented the 51-year-old Bommer on his team's withdrawal sarcastically.

"I'm dead!" said Mathieu Beda shortly after the end of the game. The Frenchman, in a new role in midfield, lacked match practice. Tasting 120 minutes of match play was a special treat. "Of course the game was not perfect against Duisburg. It is positive that we worked together until the end and have not fallen apart." Beda was criticized at the beginning of the game the lack of communication. "We had problems, this is a new position." concluded the 27-year-old. "I have not played the six-position in the last few years," he cited as a reason. The motto before the game had been to play until the final whistle. "In our situation, we must look ahead. Only if we all go in one direction, it goes uphill again."

"There is a load off," commented Torben Hoffmann on the 5:4 success after the penalty shootout. The defender, subbed in during the second half converted his penalty. "We handled the pressure of a penalty shootout well. That speaks for the Morale of the team despite the bad season start." Criticism of the quality of the match does not matter to the 33-year-old. "I don’t give a shit. The Cup is not about attractiveness. We got the win and that counts. The victory was important for confidence and for the club." With regard to the derby against Ingolstadt said Hoffmann, "It is crucial that we compete hard, accept the fight, play with passion and get results-football." The defender predicted: "With victories comes more attractive football."

"The result fits," said managing director Stefan Reuter. The 41-year-old is understandably pleased about the additional revenue from the cup. "The money does us good." Relief was evident after the penalty struck by Lions captain Daniel Bierofka. "He did it and has always fought his hardest, just like the ball fought its way over the line tonight, because he is always seeking a win," described Reuter of the scene and the jubilation after the goal. "There was much fight, few goal scoring opportunities and not much style. Just a typical cup fight", summed up Reuter the 120 minute contest. "Both teams have indicated that they are currently not in good shape." High style in this game Reuter did not expect. "The brave, good game was certainly not there. But for us it was important that we can think about the Cup over the winter. The team has always tried to fight and take chances." That was their success. "Of course, our error rate was far too high" criticized the World and European Champion.

[LoewenBoy]

You just can't make this up....the German kid's band DONIKKL will perform at the 1860-Ingolstadt game. Oddly enough, the pic below is NOT of the kids band, but rather the starting line-up from Ingolstadt.:D

Keith, you will have to tell me how good they "band" is.

http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/diverses/DONIKKLgruppe_622.jpg

[footyfan1]

You just can't make this up....the German kid's band DONIKKL will perform at the 1860-Ingolstadt game. Oddly enough, the pic below is NOT of the kids band, but rather the starting line-up from Ingolstadt.:D

Keith, you will have to tell me how good they "band" is.

http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/diverses/DONIKKLgruppe_622.jpg



It must be "Kids Day" again.

[footyfan1]

Guys, I am about to post the Kicker ratings for the Cup match with Duisburg.

But let me prepare you by saying this. I told "LoewenBoy" via private e-mail that this match was easily the worst of the competition so far.

Kicker agreed. They rated the match a 5.5. 6 is the worst you can get and they said the only reason they didn't rate it a 6 was because of the penalty shootout.

They even refused to designate a "Man of the Match." They said no player in this match deserved that "honor......"

I totally agree. This match was complete shit.

Here are the ratings.

Tschauner-----------3.5

Johnson--------------5

Ghvinianidze---------4.5

Berhalter-------------4

Schwarz-------------4.5

L. Bender-------------5

Beda-----------------4.5

Gebhart---------------5

Bierofka--------------4.5

Lauth-----------------5

Schaeffler------------4.5

Hoffmann-------------4 (Came into the match in the 61st minute for Johnson)

di Salvo--------------5.5 (Came into the match for Lauth in the 64th minute)

Ledgerwood-----------4 (Came into the match for Bender in the 84th minute)


Duisburg Ratings:

Herzog 3.5, Branco 5, Brzenska 4, Schlicke 4, Veigneau 4.5, Tararache 4, Grlic 4, Christ 4, Makiadi 5.5, Ede 5, Kouemaha 5.5, Sahan 5.5, Wagner 5

[LoewenBoy]

Tschauner-----------3.5

From everything I have read not only was the match pure dung, but there were few, if any, chances on goal. Assuming that is true that would mean that there were likely few saves as well. Given the PKs went 5-4 (no GK stopping any), I wonder why the ranking for the keepers being so high...relatively. It would seem they are being reward for standing there and not having a more active part in such a dreadful match, no?;)

(those with politically correct eyes avert them now....)

Honestly they are dead wrong on the MoM issue. My man of the match is the little Pakistani boy who made the fooball just lop-sidded enough that it rolled over the line in our favor on the last PK. Thank you!!!!

[footyfan1]

From everything I have read not only was the match pure dung, but there were few, if any, chances on goal. Assuming that is true that would mean that there were likely few saves as well. Given the PKs went 5-4 (no GK stopping any), I wonder why the ranking for the keepers being so high...relatively. It would seem they are being reward for standing there and not having a more active part in such a dreadful match, no?;)

According to "Kicker" there were two goal chances in the entire match. Both for 1860. (Duisburg did have a goal disallowed for offside)

Perhaps Tschauner got rated a 3.5 because of his outstanding form in diving to his right. ;)

Seriously, I think Tschauner got a 3.5 because that's the standard rating for someone who simply was there and did their job, but nothing more.

[LoewenBoy]

Seriously, I think Tschauner got a 3.5 because that's the standard rating for someone who simply was there and did their job, but nothing more.
Really??? So if you show up and merely convert oxygen to carbon dixoide you get a 3,5!!!!!:eek:

Wow....Lauth must REALLY suck!!!;)

[footyfan1]

Really??? So if you show up and merely convert oxygen to carbon dixoide you get a 3,5!!!!!:eek:

Pretty much. That or a "4". But like I said, maybe he got the 3.5 for his terrific form in diving to his right..... ;)


Wow....Lauth must REALLY suck!!!;)


He actually certainly f#cking does..... (insert angry face here)

[LoewenBoy]

Looks like no changes from the two MSV line-ups. Kurz always changes one or two positions from this. Nice to see Schaeffler in the start. I hope they can really shine. Shit, who the hell am I kidding, I will take another ugly-ass win no matter how it happens.;)

http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/aufstellungen/1860-ingolstadt_622.jpg

[goindownsouth]

And the congregation says: Amen!

[goindownsouth]

Well, that did not exactly end the way I was hoping, but points are points.

[LoewenBoy]

Well, that did not exactly end the way I was hoping, but points are points.
Dude, that goal that Ingolstadt scored was probably the goal of the year so far. 30 meters out, the ball is chested down to him and Zecke nails the damn thing outside of the left foot, spinning like a top and curls up 90 right over Tschauner....and he damn near had it.

What struck me as odd is the sub of Gebhart in the 80th. The guy was running like a puppy and being effective and Kurz puts Holebas in. Then nearly 1 min after the equalizer we nearly get the winner but there is a hand ball in the box not called. Hoenstly it was one of those that could go either way. But, on the other end Berhalter took down Lokvenc which was not called....also could have been.

Overall, I think a draw is unlucky for 1860. They dominated the match and several clear chances. They are building and that can be seen. It will be good to have Goektan back so that the pressuyre is off Bierofka.

All in all a good match. Some sore points which hurt to watch, but overall a decent game from 1860.

[LoewenBoy]

Tschauner (3): He had a good game. Honestly he was not really tested and the shot from "Zecke" Neundorfer was unstoppable.
Johnson (4): Wow, I am astounded by this rating. He shut down the left flank attack. He was all over the place. This illustrates someone who knows very little about the role of a wing back if they marked him down this badly.
Ghvinianidze (3): I think he had a good match and was on his men the whole time.
Berhalter (3,5): I think the only reason his rating was this low was that the restarts he took were less than good.
B. Schwarz (4): Again, as with Johnson, this rating is bull BS. Schwarz was EVERYEWHERE and came back on defense.
Ledgerwood (3,5): He had an excellent match. The Y/R at the end of the match was questionable at best. In fact, the first yellow was a bit suspect as well.
L. Bender (3): Had a great game.
Gebhart (3,5): Stunned by this rating....he was outstanding! He was my MoM. Would have given him a 3 or perhaps even 2,5. I was shocked when he was subbed. It clearly took the wind out of the attack.
Bierofka (3,5): Good match.
Lauth (4): A bit harsh, though to be honest, his 1v1 with the keeper he really should have finished.
Schäffler (3,5): This boy has dribbling skills that you don't have in other 1860 forwards. He is cool as a cucumber. One low point...he gave up on a call that was going out of bounds that Lauth ran after. When Lauth got to it he centered in the middle across an open net. You can see from the replay that Schaeffler gav eup, did not pursue and was not there to tap in the ball. THAT could have put the game well in our hands.
Reuter and Wolf were sent to the stands in the second half for a horrid string of non-calls and bad calls that went against 1860. Problem is the referee had a decent match until the last 15 mins then he lost it. The yellows on Ledgerwood were very, very soft.

As a team the attack was pretty good. The fact 1860 drew this match is regretable but if we replay that match 100 times, 1860 takes 99 of them. That equalizer will likely be the goal of the year. Hell of a shot and not likely the guy could do it again if he had 1000 chances. As soon as it left his foot everyone KNEW it was a goal....was just one of those shots.

Next three games are Frankfurt, Fuerth (at home) and Osnabrueck. We will need to play well in these games and take at least 5 points. We cannot continue to drop points.

[footyfan1]

Dude, that goal that Ingolstadt scored was probably the goal of the year so far. 30 meters out, the ball is chested down to him and Zecke nails the damn thing outside of the left foot, spinning like a top and curls up 90 right over Tschauner....and he damn near had it.

I have to agree. I haven't seen the replay yet, but when Zecke hit it, I thought it was going wide. I didn't realize it was even near going in until I saw Tschauner going after it.

And I just screamed, "No! You can't get any f#cking luckier Neuendorf!!!" It's amazing how many Ingostadt fans understand English! They all yelled back at me.

I was sitting at midfield about ten rows up on the sunny side of the stadium. Great views of almost everything. Including that freakin' Zecke Neuendorf goal. :mad:

Except for a family of 1860 fans right behind me, it seemed nearly the entire section was full of Ingolstadt fans.


What struck me as odd is the sub of Gebhart in the 80th. The guy was running like a puppy and being effective and Kurz puts Holebas in. Then nearly 1 min after the equalizer we nearly get the winner but there is a hand ball in the box not called. Hoenstly it was one of those that could go either way. But, on the other end Berhalter took down Lokvenc which was not called....also could have been.

I didn't get a good view of the apparent hand ball in the Ingolstadt penalty area, but I did get a good view of Lokvenc going down. From my angle, I thought it was a penalty. I turned and said to my girlfriend, "Sechzig lucked out there!"

When I saw Gebhart going off, I expected a defensive sub. When Holebas went on, I said to my buddy Frank, "If he's going to put Holebas in, why the hell did he leave Lauth out there? Why not take out crappy ass Lauth?

One thing I would add. Lauth had a chance in the second half that I'm still flabbergasted by the fact that he didn't put it away. But I also have to remember the hustling play Lauth made in the first half, keeping a ball from going over the end line and getting a cross toward the open Ingolstadt goal, but no other Sechzig player was there to put it away.

Six in one, half a dozen in the other. But I thought Lauth really should have put that chance away.



Overall, I think a draw is unlucky for 1860. They dominated the match and several clear chances. They are building and that can be seen. It will be good to have Goektan back so that the pressuyre is off Bierofka.

From where I sat, 1860 dominated the first half and small phases of the second half. Ingolstadt came back strong in the second half. They fought hard, never gave up and were rewarded.

In my opinion, 1860 was not "unlucky", in my opinion they got what just they deserved. I thought a draw was completely justified.

In my opinion, 1860 only have themselves to blame for not putting that match away when they had the chance.

This is not figure skating where you win on style points. You can "dominate" all you want, but the bottom line is you either put the ball in the opponents net more times than they put it in yours, or you pay the price. 1860 paid the price.


All in all a good match. Some sore points which hurt to watch, but overall a decent game from 1860.

I totally agree with these comments. It was a very good match to watch at the stadium. Both teams fought hard and they both showed that they wanted the points.

Honestly, it is the best I've seen 1860 play all season. It just f#cking sucked that they still couldn't get the job done. :mad:

[footyfan1]

Tschauner (3): He had a good game. Honestly he was not really tested and the shot from "Zecke" Neundorfer was unstoppable.
Johnson (4): Wow, I am astounded by this rating. He shut down the left flank attack. He was all over the place. This illustrates someone who knows very little about the role of a wing back if they marked him down this badly.
Ghvinianidze (3): I think he had a good match and was on his men the whole time.
Berhalter (3,5): I think the only reason his rating was this low was that the restarts he took were less than good.
B. Schwarz (4): Again, as with Johnson, this rating is bull BS. Schwarz was EVERYEWHERE and came back on defense.
Ledgerwood (3,5): He had an excellent match. The Y/R at the end of the match was questionable at best. In fact, the first yellow was a bit suspect as well.
L. Bender (3): Had a great game.
Gebhart (3,5): Stunned by this rating....he was outstanding! He was my MoM. Would have given him a 3 or perhaps even 2,5. I was shocked when he was subbed. It clearly took the wind out of the attack.
Bierofka (3,5): Good match.
Lauth (4): A bit harsh, though to be honest, his 1v1 with the keeper he really should have finished.
Schäffler (3,5): This boy has dribbling skills that you don't have in other 1860 forwards. He is cool as a cucumber. One low point...he gave up on a call that was going out of bounds that Lauth ran after. When Lauth got to it he centered in the middle across an open net. You can see from the replay that Schaeffler gav eup, did not pursue and was not there to tap in the ball. THAT could have put the game well in our hands.
Reuter and Wolf were sent to the stands in the second half for a horrid string of non-calls and bad calls that went against 1860. Problem is the referee had a decent match until the last 15 mins then he lost it. The yellows on Ledgerwood were very, very soft.


I thought Ledgerwood was punished for hustling and giving his all. I agree that those calls were very freakin' questionable.

I was very impressed with him during the match.

I agree with all your comments on the ratings except for Lauth.

I thought Lauth's rating was soft myself. You are probably going to accuse me of hating him or holding his past against him and I'm telling you that's not true. I am calling what I saw.

Lauth made one good play that entire match. The hustling play in which he kept the ball from going over the end line and created what should have been a goal chance, but none of his teammates went forward fast enough.

Other than that, IMO, the guy didn't do shit. And I think he should have been "demerited" for missing that 100% chance.

I would have given him a "5". It sucks that all 1860 has to replace him with is an even sorrier di Salvo.


As a team the attack was pretty good. The fact 1860 drew this match is regretable but if we replay that match 100 times, 1860 takes 99 of them. That equalizer will likely be the goal of the year. Hell of a shot and not likely the guy could do it again if he had 1000 chances. As soon as it left his foot everyone KNEW it was a goal....was just one of those shots.

I don't agree that if you replay this match 100 times, 1860 takes 99 of them. No way. They were the better team, but they allowed Ingolstadt to do enough to take the point.

You are engaging in "what ifs" here. I have one for you. What if Holebas doesn't clear that Lovkenc shot off the line in the final minutes??

It's funny how you can dismiss that Ingolstadt goal, but nothing 1860 did. Suppose in three of those 100 matches sorry ass referee Rafati actually calls the play 1860 scored on a foul? Suppose in three of those 100 matches Rafati actually calls the penalty against Berhalter??

Even if he calls the handball, if these other things happen, 1860 still doesn't win.

You can't sit there and say things like that as if they are so.

Dude, maybe it looks different at the stadium than it does on TV, but I thought that draw was totally justified. 1860 left the door open and Ingolstadt walked right in.

Was 1860 "better?" Yes, but one thing we know in football is that many times a fighting team can beat or draw one that is "better."

And that's what I saw yesterday at the Allianz Arena. In my opinion, Ingolstadt fought hard and was rewarded.

As I said in my last message, I believe 1860 paid the price for not putting that match away when they had the chance.

Selber Schuld. :(

[squidward123]

L. Bender (3): Had a great game.
Gebhart (3,5): Stunned by this rating....he was outstanding! He was my MoM. Would have given him a 3 or perhaps even 2,5. I was shocked when he was subbed. It clearly took the wind out of the attack.

If he was MoM, shouldn't he have a rating higher than lars bender?