Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 [R]

[footyfan1]

Two thoughts here:

One would assume you would keep track of former good players who came up through your ranks just in case they ever became "available" again. Also, give that he has ties with many current 1860 players it is inconceivable to me they did not know.
One would assume your scouting organization is keeping track of ANY good BL players (who were former 2.BL players) who may not be getting playing time AND might fit a need we have.
As far as 100k is concerned, yes 1860 has some money to spend. Let's put it this way, if we sit on cash now rather than pay out, we will be the richest club in the 3.BL.;)


And many times when a player leaves, teams close the door behind them.

You're doing plenty of assuming there too.

What makes you think Baier would have even wanted to come back to 1860?? Maybe going to FCA was his way of "sticking it" to 1860.


Again, you're doing a lot of assuming, but you won't assume that, will you??


Also, there are other teams who could have used a player like Baier on loan too and I'm pretty damned sure they aren't having his discussion.

Adler went to Duisburg on a free. Why weren't you outraged that 1860 didn't bring him back??

There could be loads of reasons for this not happening. But we'd rather think management are idiots.

I know. I do that with BVB quite a lot. Zorc has built up years of failures for me to safely make my assumptions.

Seeing where 1860 has been and where it is now, I think you're being a bit unfair to Stefan Reuter.

This team should have been relegated a year or two ago.

Maybe it is just time. :o

[LoewenBoy]

And many times when a player leaves, teams close the door behind them.
I don't disagree with anything you have said. Nor did I state that any of the options you point out are not possible alternatives....that's why I posed the original question.

Damn right I am assuming. But you have to in such situations as no one will ever know the truth. It is just very odd that there is no REPORTED bad blood with Baier, and yet we did not go after him.

You mention Adler. Are you serious? Anyone who knows the situation around his departure knows HE shut the door on himself ever coming back. Same with Milchraum.

Now talk about the conditions guys like Goerlitz, Lehmann, Schaeffer, Baier, Szukala and Vucicevic all left under and they have all said they would come back to 1860 if asked or if conditions were right.

I am just saying that the hallmark of any good football scouting organization is keeping track of their alumni. Granted sometimes teams piss players off and vice versa. No doubt that is the case with some players, perhaps even Baier. But FAR too many players in positions where we need help, have gone up on the block and were taken without so much as a peep out of 1860. THAT is a management issue. THAT is a Reuter issue. And THAT is what he will have to answer for if this team goes down. No sense holding on to money now that could keep us in the 2.BL. That is the measure by which he will be judged.

I am not saying Reuter is not smart. He is, no doubt. But if he has some sort of master plan for strengthening this club it surpasses my ability to see it. Perhaps he will surprise us all still.

[footyfan1]

I don't disagree with anything you have said. Nor did I state that any of the options you point out are not possible alternatives....that's why I posed the original question.

Damn right I am assuming. But you have to in such situations as no one will ever know the truth. It is just very odd that there is no REPORTED bad blood with Baier, and yet we did not go after him.

You mention Adler. Are you serious? Anyone who knows the situation around his departure knows HE shut the door on himself ever coming back. Same with Milchraum.

Now talk about the conditions guys like Goerlitz, Lehmann, Schaeffer, Baier, Szukala and Vucicevic all left under and they have all said they would come back to 1860 if asked or if conditions were right.

I am just saying that the hallmark of any good football scouting organization is keeping track of their alumni. Granted sometimes teams piss players off and vice versa. No doubt that is the case with some players, perhaps even Baier. But FAR too many players in positions where we need help, have gone up on the block and were taken without so much as a peep out of 1860. THAT is a management issue. THAT is a Reuter issue. And THAT is what he will have to answer for if this team goes down. No sense holding on to money now that could keep us in the 2.BL. That is the measure by which he will be judged.

I am not saying Reuter is not smart. He is, no doubt. But if he has some sort of master plan for strengthening this club it surpasses my ability to see it. Perhaps he will surprise us all still.


I think their problem is they think they already have "enough" (besides central midfield) because of the first half of last season.

Perhaps they will surprise us in winter, but I doubt it.

And I also doubt Baier would have chosen to come back to 1860. If he would have even given it a thought, why would he choose to go to the nearly-local rival??

I think there is something between them we aren't considering.

Also, could be possible that 1860 could afford the loan fee, but not another salary?

So many possibilities. However, we do agree that if 1860 had the chance and KNEW this player was available, they should have taken a shot.

But we also don't know if there is something else between them that burned bridges a la Adler and Milchraum. I think there must have been for him to join FCA instead of coming back to 1860.

[LoewenBoy]

I think their problem is they think they already have "enough" (besides central midfield) because of the first half of last season.
I agree. And there is where I think Kurz and Reuter are deluded. All one has to do is look at the rueckrunde to see what a few key injuries did to THAT team.

And I also doubt Baier would have chosen to come back to 1860. If he would have even given it a thought, why would he choose to go to the nearly-local rival??
Funny that is the exact reason I think he WOULD have. Baier wanted to play. FCA picked up the phone because they KNEW that. I think Baier would have come to 1860 had we called...but that's just conjecture on my part.

I think there is something between them we aren't considering.
Thought about that too. But I think it was just coincidence that FCA - 1860's biggest local rival - called. I don't think it was an overt snub to 1860. The fan boards are all over management for not being on top of this situation. I don't think there is anything sinister in his going to FCA. They were itnerested, they knew him from his time at 1860 and they called.

Also, could be possible that 1860 could afford the loan fee, but not another salary?
Keith, we are not poor. We CAN afford to pay some things now. Perhaps Reuter, being the frugal-minded guy he is (and I do not mean that as derrogatory), realizes it is better to "buy" a player than get them on loan. Again, conjecture on my part.

So many possibilities. However, we do agree that if 1860 had the chance and KNEW this player was available, they should have taken a shot.
Yup....exactly my point....and yours. :D I guess I would just like to know the politcs behind it. Did they know? Did they not? We may never know.

But we also don't know if there is something else between them that burned bridges a la Adler and Milchraum. I think there must have been for him to join FCA instead of coming back to 1860.
Well, there was a rumor that when Baier decided to execute the clause in his contract allowing him to leave if 1860 did not get promoted two seasons ago that management made an offer for him to stay and he declined. Certainly Reuter HAS to realize that it is a goal for every player to play in the BL. I don't bear the kid any ill-will for leaving. If management agreed to the clause and there was interest in they guy from a 1.BL team they should take what came. Who knows how heated the negotiations got. However, unlike the Adler and Milchraum negotiations, I have not heard any negative things coming from 1860 on Baier. Adler and Milchraum won't we wearing the Weiss/Balu anytime soon.:cool:

[footyfan1]

I agree. And there is where I think Kurz and Reuter are deluded. All one has to do is look at the rueckrunde to see what a few key injuries did to THAT team.

Yeah. We agree. I call that Dortmund syndrome. I like to say that Zorc manages "too optimistically" to be effective.

They probably stupidly thought last season was a one-shot deal. That so many injuries would not happen again.

They wouldn't be the first to make that kind of mistake.



Funny that is the exact reason I think he WOULD have. Baier wanted to play. FCA picked up the phone because they KNEW that. I think Baier would have come to 1860 had we called...but that's just conjecture on my part.

How do you know it was FCA who picked up the phone? Magath has done business with FCA before with Uwe Moehrle and one other player whose name I can't recall at the moment.

How do you know Magath didn't call them and said, "Hey, I've got a central midfielder who can help you guys out and he wants to play with you???"

And you're right. Saying you think Baier would have come had 1860 called is serious speculation on your part.



Thought about that too. But I think it was just coincidence that FCA - 1860's biggest local rival - called.

Again, how do you know FCA did the calling? Maybe Magath did.


I don't think it was an overt snub to 1860. The fan boards are all over management for not being on top of this situation. I don't think there is anything sinister in his going to FCA. They were itnerested, they knew him from his time at 1860 and they called.

The fan boards. Yeah. That word is usually worth about as much as used toilet paper. And once again, you don't know who called whom.


Keith, we are not poor. We CAN afford to pay some things now. Perhaps Reuter, being the frugal-minded guy he is (and I do not mean that as derrogatory), realizes it is better to "buy" a player than get them on loan. Again, conjecture on my part.

Garry, in the scheme of football operations, 1860 is still POOR. They may not be on the brink of bankruptcy anymore, but they are not flush enough with cash to just go out and get any player they want. And by that, I don't mean stars.

And I don't mean in comparison with someone like Bayern, Dortmund or Hoffenheim.

I mean even in comparison with clubs SCF, Rostock, and even Greuther Fuerth.

According to guys who've proven to be very trustworthy (not fans), 1860 is still not in a good financial position. Not horrible, but not very good either.


Yup....exactly my point....and yours. :D I guess I would just like to know the politcs behind it. Did they know? Did they not? We may never know.

That's the key. But with some of the statements you make, you write like you assume you know. And you seem to want to assume the worst.

Again, there is a strong possibility that Baier didn't want to come back to 1860. There's a strong possibility that Magath called FCA and not the other way around. You seem to want to believe Reuter screwed this up based on what? What the fans boards are saying? Like I said before, in my experiences, fan board opinions are usually worth about as much as used toilet paper.


Well, there was a rumor that when Baier decided to execute the clause in his contract allowing him to leave if 1860 did not get promoted two seasons ago that management made an offer for him to stay and he declined.

Of course, that's a rumor. But if you know that rumor (I didn't, but I never asked), what makes you think he would want to come back if he declined an offer to stay before?

Even if he knows it's just for one year? Why wouldn't he go somewhere he thinks he can be more competitive??


Certainly Reuter HAS to realize that it is a goal for every player to play in the BL. I don't bear the kid any ill-will for leaving.

Totally agree. It's like right now, I don't hate Mladen Petric for leaving BVB for HSV. Don't blame him one bit. Their season outlook is much better than ours, they seem to have much better management and last but not least, they freakin' doubled his salary. If were Petric's agent, I would have told him to go too.

A kid like Baier believed he can play in the 1. Liga and I also believe he can, but he just went to the wrong club. However, I don't think Baier could see Magath bringing in Misimovic and Hasebe, not leaving a place for him even though they got rid of Marcelinho, who I think other teams not to pick up on was just crazy, but I also think Magath would have refused to sell him within the BL. There are some 1. BL teams who can use him.

Not that Baier is any "dangerous player" just yet, but Magath really hates strengthening his competition in any way whether it be someone as high as Bayern or someone as low as Cottbus.

Which is another reason I can truly believe there is a good chance Magath called FCA and not the other way around.


If management agreed to the clause and there was interest in they guy from a 1.BL team they should take what came. Who knows how heated the negotiations got. However, unlike the Adler and Milchraum negotiations, I have not heard any negative things coming from 1860 on Baier. Adler and Milchraum won't we wearing the Weiss/Balu anytime soon.:cool:

And guess what? This team could use Adler and Milchraum too! Also, just because you haven't heard there were any difficulties with Baier doesn't mean there weren't any.

And yes, even if there were, I would blame Reuter for not taking a chance on asking for the kid IF HE KNEW THE KID WAS AVAILABLE.......

I don't believe he knew. I also don't believe Baier would have come back if 1860 had gone in for him.

Why? Just to possibly go back to the bench when Goektan is healthy??? At FCA, Baier has no competition in central midfield. Well, unless you call Elton da Costa "competition" LOL!!

I think as long as Baier is healthy, he's starting at FCA.

As you said, we'll probably never know everything about this, so aren't we really just comparing assumptions here??

Read that to mean, "Aren't we really just wasting time here?" ;)

[LoewenBoy]

That's the key. But with some of the statements you make, you write like you assume you know. And you seem to want to assume the worst.

Wow, its Passive/Aggressive Week and you must be on the latter.

I won't respond to all your drivel in detail, but I will say:

I DO know for a fact how Baier ended up at FCA.
I WAS speculating on a few other issues, but at last check that is what keeps crap on Big Soccer boards, no?
Oh, my "speculating" was informed speculation based on discussions with people who have direct contact with 1860 operations. Granted, it ain't a Stefan Reuter hotline, but is seems to have worked pretty damn good so far.
Lastly, the 1860 "fan boards", if you know where to look and who to listen to, are some of the MOST ACCURATE accounts of the goings on at the club. There are three people on those boards who have a near 100% record on such things. I know them and the reason WHY their record is so good.
My responses were meant to generate conversation around certain issues, not to deomonstrate how in tune I am with 1860....I don't need to demonstrate that to anyone. I just figured I would post a few etherial questions about this situation to see what others thought. You gave me your two cents (which was decent) and a tongue lashing. Thanks for both.

[footyfan1]

Wow, its Passive/Aggressive Week and you must be on the latter.

I won't respond to all your drivel in detail, but I will say:

I DO know for a fact how Baier ended up at FCA.
I WAS speculating on a few other issues, but at last check that is what keeps crap on Big Soccer boards, no?
Oh, my "speculating" was informed speculation based on discussions with people who have direct contact with 1860 operations. Granted, it ain't a Stefan Reuter hotline, but is seems to have worked pretty damn good so far.
Lastly, the 1860 "fan boards", if you know where to look and who to listen to, are some of the MOST ACCURATE accounts of the goings on at the club. There are three people on those boards who have a near 100% record on such things. I know them and the reason WHY their record is so good.
My responses were meant to generate conversation around certain issues, not to deomonstrate how in tune I am with 1860....I don't need to demonstrate that to anyone. I just figured I would post a few etherial questions about this situation to see what others thought. You gave me your two cents (which was decent) and a tongue lashing. Thanks for both.

What "tongue lashing??" You've been debating issues with me long enough to know that's no 'tongue lashing.'

And if you trusted your sources that much, why didn't you say that instead of just "fan boards??"

If you deal with "fan boards" long enough, you know that most of them are full of shit.

Say you have good sources there. Most of mine are current or former reporters and some employees at different clubs.

I don't think of those type of guys when you say "fan boards."

If Reuter f#cked up, then he f#cked up. All you had to do was tell me they were sources you trust and I would have shut up.

You never said that.

[footyfan1]

Kicker.de: 1860: Reuter nimmt Kurz in Schutz - Hoffmann: "Gefährliche Situation" (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/startseite/artikel/224884/)

[LoewenBoy]

The boy is out until "early Oktober" according to sources. They better damn well find a solution to the non-attacking midfiled or when Schroth finally DOES return he will be playing in the 3.BL.:o

[footyfan1]

The boy is out until "early Oktober" according to sources. They better damn well find a solution to the non-attacking midfiled or when Schroth finally DOES return he will be playing in the 3.BL.:o

Here's an unemployed Brazilian (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/spieler/55273/roger/profil.html) they could look at if they don't want to throw Gebhart in there and let him sink or swim.

That's what I would do right now. Throw Gebhart in there and let him sink or swim......

[LoewenBoy]

VfR Aalen - TSV 1860 München 0:2 (0:0)


1860: Hofmann (46. Tschauner) - Johnson, Thorandt (68. Eberlein), Berhalter (68. Jungwirth), Hoffmann (46. B. Schwarz) - S. Bender (68. Burkhard), L. Bender (46. Leist) - Gebhart (60. Kucukovic), Holebas - Lauth (46. Ledgerwood), Di Salvo (60. Schäffler).

This line-up baffles me....

Kusuckovic in attacking midfield?
Ledgerwood as striker?
switch AGAIN to a new formation 4-2-2-2?!?!?!?

Kurz is grasping at straws.

[footyfan1]

VfR Aalen - TSV 1860 München 0:2 (0:0)


1860: Hofmann (46. Tschauner) - Johnson, Thorandt (68. Eberlein), Berhalter (68. Jungwirth), Hoffmann (46. B. Schwarz) - S. Bender (68. Burkhard), L. Bender (46. Leist) - Gebhart (60. Kucukovic), Holebas - Lauth (46. Ledgerwood), Di Salvo (60. Schäffler).

This line-up baffles me....

Kusuckovic in attacking midfield?
Ledgerwood as striker?
switch AGAIN to a new formation 4-2-2-2?!?!?!?

Kurz is grasping at straws.


Garry, I agree that Kurz is grasping at straws, but reading that, I'm thinking that just after halftime, they probably went to 4-2-3-1. I'm thinking Ledgerwood dropped back to D-Mild to form a "double six" with one of the Benders, while DiSalvo played alone up front.

I also agree with you that he probably had to have tried Ku-SUCK-ovic in central midfield.

At this point, he has to try just about anything and there's no better place than a training match.

But I can also see the point that in a training match four weeks into the season, he should be getting his set 11 to gel, not trying to find a set 11 to begin with.

The other thing that's bad is that VfR Aalen is in 17th place in the 3rd Bundesliga. They just hired Jürgen Kohler as their new coach, but still got blasted 5-2 in their last 3rd Bundesliga match by first-place Kickers Emden.

Maybe Aalen wanted to prove something against 1860, but I think it was particularly bad that the only 1860 goal scored by an 1860 player was scored by Gregg and not until the 58th minute. The other was an Aalen own goal in the 72nd minute.

[footyfan1]

VfR Aalen - TSV 1860 München 0:2 (0:0)


1860: Hofmann (46. Tschauner) - Johnson, Thorandt (68. Eberlein), Berhalter (68. Jungwirth), Hoffmann (46. B. Schwarz) - S. Bender (68. Burkhard), L. Bender (46. Leist) - Gebhart (60. Kucukovic), Holebas - Lauth (46. Ledgerwood), Di Salvo (60. Schäffler).

This line-up baffles me....

Kusuckovic in attacking midfield?
Ledgerwood as striker?
switch AGAIN to a new formation 4-2-2-2?!?!?!?

Kurz is grasping at straws.

Here's a report on the match from Bild.de. (http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/fussball/zweite-liga/2008/09/10/1860-muenchen/2_3A0-sieg-gegen-vfr-aalen.html) Of course, it is in German.

[LoewenBoy]

Garry, I agree that Kurz is grasping at straws, but reading that, I'm thinking that just after halftime, they probably went to 4-2-3-1. I'm thinking Ledgerwood dropped back to D-Mild to form a "double six" with one of the Benders, while DiSalvo played alone up front.
Perhaps...did not see the match. But the formation itself and the placement of some players would suggest "testing" people at positions. If true, those are some suprising test. And one would expect that with such a crappy offense, we would be testing more attack-minded people in those key positions. But what do I know, Kurz is the one with the A License ane me with just a C License.:o

I also agree with you that he probably had to have tried Ku-SUCK-ovic in central midfield. At this point, he has to try just about anything and there's no better place than a training match.
To quote Obama, "you can put lipstick on a pig....its still a pig."


But I can also see the point that in a training match four weeks into the season, he should be getting his set 11 to gel, not trying to find a set 11 to begin with.
Yep. Change, change, change. Kurz invoked "change" than Obama/Biden.....and THAT is saying something.:D

The other thing that's bad is that VfR Aalen is in 17th place in the 3rd Bundesliga. They just hired Jürgen Kohler as their new coach, but still got blasted 5-2 in their last 3rd Bundesliga match by first-place Kickers Emden.
I do not read too much into the result as one never knows HOW they were playing or WHAT they were practicing on the pitch. It is a bit aggrevating to see Lauth and DiSalvo not netting more. The match they played previously it was Johnson, playing right back, who scored two.

Maybe Aalen wanted to prove something against 1860, but I think it was particularly bad that the only 1860 goal scored by an 1860 player was scored by Gregg and not until the 58th minute. The other was an Aalen own goal in the 72nd minute.
Agreed.

I have a lock of Gerd Mueller's hair I got back in 1974. I am sending it today to the cloning lab to have it melded with pure 1860 DNA. In 15 years or so we should have a good, solid young striker capable of netting from anywhere. Problem is, Bayern will likely have offered him a contract already.:D

[footyfan1]

Perhaps...did not see the match. But the formation itself and the placement of some players would suggest "testing" people at positions. If true, those are some suprising test. And one would expect that with such a crappy offense, we would be testing more attack-minded people in those key positions. But what do I know, Kurz is the one with the A License ane me with just a C License.:o


Hey, I was just guessing myself.....


To quote Obama, "you can put lipstick on a pig....its still a pig."[

McCain said it first........ (About Hilliary's Health Care Plans)


Yep. Change, change, change. Kurz invoked "change" than Obama/Biden.....and THAT is saying something.:D

As if that isn't the message from both campaigns at the moment??



I do not read too much into the result as one never knows HOW they were playing or WHAT they were practicing on the pitch. It is a bit aggrevating to see Lauth and DiSalvo not netting more. The match they played previously it was Johnson, playing right back, who scored two.

Exactly. Especially when you're playing one of the worst teams in the division below you.




I have a lock of Gerd Mueller's hair I got back in 1974. I am sending it today to the cloning lab to have it melded with pure 1860 DNA. In 15 years or so we should have a good, solid young striker capable of netting from anywhere. Problem is, Bayern will likely have offered him a contract already.:D

You'd better do it before the election. If one ticket wins, that technology is history! (Insert winking face here) LOL!!

[goindownsouth]

What is this? No posts on today's match against Duisburg? Have all lost hope???

[LoewenBoy]

What is this? No posts on today's match against Duisburg? Have all lost hope???
No, not lost hope. But certainly feel like I did at the end of The Empire Strikes Back when Han Solo was frozen in carbonite....very depressed.

Below is the "probable" line-up, but Kurz has sown before that he posts stuff like this on the home page only to change it later. So, assuming this can be trusted, it looks like a few things will go on today:

Formation: Seems the 4-1-2-1-2 is done and he is going for a flatter 4-4-2. Given the personnel he has right now that might be best. Midfield has like the A95 to Garmisch during ski season...one direction. We need to clog up the counter-attacks and a stronger midfield, more compact mid should do this.
Defense: Seems Kurz is opting for experience rather than youth. Hoffman in the ever-troubled right back position is probably a decent bet. Thorandt and Berhalter in the middle may or may not pay off. IF...big if....they have the confidence AND attention to detail they showed this time last year, it is a decent bet. If not, Kurz should put them on the bench and go with youth (Ghvinianidze and Eberlein). Johnson on the left outside is a decent choice but makes one wonder why Benny Schwarz is not starting there. He is not listed as injured anymore and has shown game shape. To have this guy on the bench is just wrong.
Midfield: All I can say is "Are you kidding me!!!???"

Gebhart on the wing makes some sense. He is young, fast and a good dribbler. I can get behind this experiment. He is lazy though, so if he does not get back to help Hoffman the latter will have a very bad day.
VERY surprised with BOTH Benders in the middle. Lars=yes, Sven? Not so much. I would have put Ledgerwood in the middle or Jungwirth. The Benders continue to show this pensiveness in the middle which allows WAY too much territory to be given up on the counter-attack.
Biero on the left makes sense; he goes where he wants to anyway.

Attack: Honestly, I would have gone with Schaeffler and Lauth. I would love to see the two of those guys together up front. For my money if DiSalvo does not put out well then Schaeffler should be the default pick for that position for the rest of the season. Neither DiSalvo or Kusuckovic has impressed and have had PLENTY of opportunity to do so. I say give Schaeffler a chance.
Other:

Jungwirth should start to see more time. I would expect him to come in for one of the Benders (likely Sven) around the 50th unless he f's up before then.
Holebas has had his chances and has done "ok" but he really needs to show he is capable at this level.
Not sure why Ghvinianidze has been on the bench but seems he has fallen out of favor since game #1. Frankly, I thought he has had one of the better showings of the defense in these games. I hope he is not being villified for that damn OG. If that were the case Beda and Thorandt should have been crucified LONG ago.
Something about Burkhard I just cannot put my finger on. He does not impress but does not f'up either. It is almost as if he cancels himself out.
I am dumb-founded that B. Schwarz is not in the line-up. Either he is still injured or something is up. This kid is like Marcel Schaeffer....if you have him you do NOT keep him on the bench unless he is hurt.
Kucukovic should find a job waiting tables in Englischergarten for my $$. He has a better chance of scoring there than on the pitch.
Ledgerwood is another surprise omission. Nick has played very well...at least for a team that is 0-3 he has been a bright spot.
Baumgartlinger is over-rated right now. Yes he is seeing plenty of playing time for Austria, but...he plays for AUSTRIA. It's not like he is playing for Brazil. He jsut does not show any confidence on teh field. You can almost see him emotionally overwhelmed when he steps on the pitch.
Schäffler is the most UNDER-RATED player on the team. This kid will end up surprising VERY, very soon....IF he ever gets more playing time.
Eberlein, if healthy, would be my choice to slot into the Defesnse. At some point we need to get this kid in the game. Last year he was touted as the replacement for Berhalter, but then Gregg had a tremednous year and Eberlein was injured, military duty, then rehab. He is back and I think he is ready to take the middle over.

$hit, there's 4 days worth of posts in one reply...:D

http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/aufstellungen/1860-duisburg.jpg

[Karen Walker]

Line up (according to 1860 ticker) is:

Tschauner
Thorandt, Ghvinianidze, Berhalter, B. Schwarz
Johnson, L. Bender, S. Bender, Bierofka
Di Salvo, Lauth

[Borussia]

Wow, a Sparta Rotterdam lady interested in the 2 Bundesliga! :eek: :)


Btw: It looks good for 1860 at half-time (1:0 lead thanks to a Bierofka header goal).

[LoewenBoy]

Line up (according to 1860 ticker) is:

Tschauner
Thorandt, Ghvinianidze, Berhalter, B. Schwarz
Johnson, L. Bender, S. Bender, Bierofka
Di Salvo, Lauth
Interesting....but this is my last look here until the game is over. I have LoewenTV and they do not show the match online until 15 mins after the game ends.

I had said last week having Johnson on the wing would be a good idea. He is fast, gets back to help and could create all sorts of worries on the right side for the Zebras. Biero equally so on the left.

Glad to see Benny S. and Mate back in. One thing is certain, seems Marco and I think a lot alike as a coach....whether that is a good thing or not remains to be seen.

Thorandt on the outside right will be an issue. He played there last season and was the weak link in that formation then too.

Hope Berhalter gets the support he needs....he should.

Two things puzzle me:

Both Benders in midfield? Honestly I think that is a mistake. Normally teams run all over them because they give up too much room. Maybe MSV is different.
DiSalvo upfront AGAIN. I think this is his last chance to show what he can do.