Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 [R]

[LoewenBoy]

Beda got a three match suspension for his red card against Ahlen.

According to "kicker" the photo below is of the foul that earned the red card.



http://mediadb.kicker.de/news/1000/1020/1100/4000/artikel/596496/beda_rot-1220355211_zoom89_crop_600x450_600x450+29+0.jpg


Three matches is a lot for that foul. It was stupid and late but hardly as bad as three matches. Especially since the DFB usually gives a 4 match ban for rape, murder and arson; three matches is a bit extreme. But the way he has been playing I see it as a blessing.:cool:

[LoewenBoy]

L. Bender one week for a "muscle problem"
Gebhardt one week for a "muscle problem"
Goktan likely two weeks due to a foot operation.
Beda for three games for a reckless last man foul Sunday.D.
Schwarz out for four weeks with a tear of his outer miniscus.
Schorth out for the rest of his career on a paid retirement plan called a "Cerny-Tyce".
What was it I said earlier about health and depth of roster being important?:cool:

[footyfan1]

True...so that makes my record 14-1.:D

You wish! LMAO!! :)

[footyfan1]

I forgot to mention that Beda is still eligible for 1860's next Cup match.

[footyfan1]

L. Bender one week for a "muscle problem"
Gebhardt one week for a "muscle problem"
Goktan likely two weeks due to a foot operation.
Beda for three games for a reckless last man foul Sunday.D.
Schwarz out for four weeks with a tear of his outer miniscus.
Schorth out for the rest of his career on a paid retirement plan called a "Cerny-Tyce".
What was it I said earlier about health and depth of roster being important?:cool:


No arguments from me. You were dead on.

[LoewenBoy]

I forgot to mention that Beda is still eligible for 1860's next Cup match.
Too bad.:D

Honestly, if I were Kurz here is the line-up I would go with:

Tschauner

Ledgerwood - Ghvinianidze - Hofmann - B. Schwarz

Beda

Bierofka - Johnson

Schaeffler

Lauth - DiSalvo


Reasons:

Ledgerwood plays outside defense for Canada and is a tenacious player.
Ghvinianidze is a good player and was never given a chance to gel in the line.
Hofmann is the best next option in the middle.
Benny Schwarz should be the default choice for left back...he is the next Marcel Schaeffer.
Beda is NOT a defender, he is more an defending midfielder.
Bierofka on the wing, although in central mid might work too.
Johnson's speed would be best used on the wing. Along with Bierofka two speedy wingers would make defending against them much harder.
We have NO attacking midfield options right now. I say give Schaeffler a chance. Either that or move Biero into the role.
Lauth and DiSalvo are the best attacking options right now.

[russ99]

Which is why I laughed when some thought 1860 were getting some great player Beda. I mean, come on, FCK let him go.

He doesn't normally suck the way he did yesterday, but he's no great player and I don't think he should keep Gregg on the bench.

Gregg does bring fire to the team.

You are right. And I think the reason for that is just what you say below.....

Agree. I am a big supporter of Kurz, BUT....he keeps changing the personnel and the line-up. Third game, third line-up change, same result. As much as I like him this is one area where I think he IS at fault.

Exactly. And while I defended Kurz and I still do, you are right. The lineup shuffles are his fault.

And Garry, I don't think "our boy" Ku-SUCK-ovic was doing that badly. I would have kept him out there with Lauth.

I'm sorry, but I just don't rate diSalvo. I'd rather hope Ku-SUCK-ovic finally comes through rather than trot diSalvo's sorry ass out there.

Today's "Bild" headline was something like "1860 Loses Again And Kurz Is Still Trainer!"

Well, yes, he is. Who are they going to get who they can afford who is better???

I think it would be a massive mistake letting go Kurz. Had 1860 won a match so far, he wouldn't be juggling so much. He's just trying different things to see what works. Hopefully Reuter shows more patience in the coach than previous 1860 management.

Also, I think this formation shift we've used since the beginning of the season is the cause of most of the problems and either needs time to work out the kinks or should be scrapped immediately.

Why not go back to a 4-5-1 which would stabilize the defense and allow for better quality short quick passes to build up play in the midfield? Admittedly, Lauth's our only decent striker, so why not play him up top alone?

Should be an interesting match this week, I just hope the guys give a lot better effort this time around...

[footyfan1]

I think it would be a massive mistake letting go Kurz. Had 1860 won a match so far, he wouldn't be juggling so much. He's just trying different things to see what works. Hopefully Reuter shows more patience in the coach than previous 1860 management.

I think he already has.....



Also, I think this formation shift we've used since the beginning of the season is the cause of most of the problems and either needs time to work out the kinks or should be scrapped immediately.

Why not go back to a 4-5-1 which would stabilize the defense and allow for better quality short quick passes to build up play in the midfield? Admittedly, Lauth's our only decent striker, so why not play him up top alone?

Because you don't have any midfielders capable of building up play. If you put more midfielders out there and they suck, the play won't be any better, it'll just be more of them out there to suck.

This is why I think Garry might have point when he says try Bierofka in central midfield until Goektan can return.

And I wouldn't be so quick to call Lauth a "decent" striker. He's done as well as Ku-Suck-ovic so far this season.

Well, by the kicker rankings, Lauth's overall rating is a full .5 better than Ku-SUCK-ovic's....

They have the same number of goals (1) while Lauth has played one match more against an opponent picked to fight relegation.

Wow. Wow.


Should be an interesting match this week, I just hope the guys give a lot better effort this time around...

They need to fight hard from whistle to whistle.

And there are no matches this weekend. It is an international week. 1860's next match is on Monday night, September 15th, at the Allianz Arena against MSV Duisburg.

[LoewenBoy]

Kicker Ratings in red next to mine. Clearly when Kicker does not have the guts to give the truth they simply give a (4) to someone. Against a team who should be fighting for relegation, 1860 played horrid.

Mine, not Kicker's....

Tschauner: (3,5)(3) Was only really challenged a few times and saved when needed to. Not his fault as he was left helpless point-blank on the two goals.
Hoffmann: (6)(4) Outside the 16m box he was fine. Inside the 16m box he was a catastrophe. His fault on the first gaol as he totally did not mark his man.
LB Comment: Proof Kicker loves Torben.
Thorandt: (6)(4) Head up his ass for 90 mins. At fault for the second goal.
LB Comment: Proof Kicker loves Thorandt.
Beda: (6)(5) Head up Thorandt's ass for most of the game.
LB Comment: Proof Kicker left at half time.
Johnson: (4,5)(4,5) Good overlaps but pensive going too far forward as he did last year. He needs to move up more as he has the speed to get back.
Ledgerwood: (4,5)(3) Had a decent game but went out injured in the second half.
LB Comment: I think this was generous, but in retrospect he had a decent match.
Bierofka: (3)(3) The only one on the pitch who gave a damn today besides Tschauner and Ledgerwood.
D. Schwarz: (5) Subbed out early and thank God. Something is wrong with him this season. Just not the same guy.
Holebas: (5)(4) Not bad but not good. Really should have been back more to help cover.
Lauth: (4)(4,5) Did not have much to work with but was dangerous with the few opportunities given. Hard to rate a striker when the ball is not up there much.
Di Salvo: (4)(4) Not bad but expect a bit more from him.
S. Bender: (5)(4) Was generally much better than in past game but his horrid back pass is what caused Beda to foul and get sent off for last man foul. though, truth be told, had the defense been playing their positions that foul would not have been necessary.
Baumgartlinger(4): Came on too late to rate but was disappointing in his ability to cover in the back for the last few minutes. At his age he should be running like a Labrador puppy for 90 mins and not break a sweat. He failed to cover back.
Schäffler: As with Lauth it is hard to rate a striker when there is not offense. However, his first touch was a beautiful pivot and shoot in the box which could have gone in. I would start this kick over Kusuckovic ANY day.

[russ99]

I think he already has.....

Because you don't have any midfielders capable of building up play. If you put more midfielders out there and they suck, the play won't be any better, it'll just be more of them out there to suck.

This is why I think Garry might have point when he says try Bierofka in central midfield until Goektan can return.

And I wouldn't be so quick to call Lauth a "decent" striker. He's done as well as Ku-Suck-ovic so far this season.

Well, by the kicker rankings, Lauth's overall rating is a full .5 better than Ku-SUCK-ovic's....

They have the same number of goals (1) while Lauth has played one match more against an opponent picked to fight relegation.

Wow. Wow.

They need to fight hard from whistle to whistle.

And there are no matches this weekend. It is an international week. 1860's next match is on Monday night, September 15th, at the Allianz Arena against MSV Duisburg.

Stupid Dish Network. I'm so out of touch with the Bundesliga...

You're totally right with CAM as long as Göktan is out, and perhaps Bierofka's the best option in the meantime. But we do have a few decent wingers and at least relatively capable DM's, so you can't say the midfield totally sucks, even though their play so far has been pretty sucky. My point is that one less midfielder in the current system is making the guys force longer passes a bit too much.

With a 4-5-1 short-pass system we'd still have problems getting the ball to the striker, but at least there would be some ball movement upfield and keep the opponent from constantly living in our third of the field.

If Kurz were even thinking about this formation shift :), I'd go with the following lineup:

Hoffmann - Ghvinianidze - Berhalter - B. Schwarz

Thorandt(hopefully ashamed and ready to work) - Baumgartlinger

Ledgerwood - Bierofka - Johnson

Lauth

But we'd probably still lose 2-1. :(

[LoewenBoy]

With a 4-5-1 short-pass system we'd still have problems getting the ball to the striker, but at least there would be some ball movement upfield and keep the opponent from constantly living in our third of the field.
I am not sure why the shift from his 4-2-3-1 which seemed to be working (when all were healthy) last year. The defense was decent, even during the "big drop". The REAL problem was scoring. There is where I think Kurz decided to abandon the formation because his 3 mids were just not aggressive enough getting the ball forward AND the defensive 2 were not aggresive enough shutting down the counter-attack and building play back up field quickly. I think that formation works if you have the right people playing aggresively. We get killed when our wings don't act like wingers. Right now I can count on a few fingers the number of flanking runs made by people not names Bierofka this season.


Hoffmann - Ghvinianidze - Berhalter - B. Schwarz

Thorandt(hopefully ashamed and ready to work) - Baumgartlinger

Ledgerwood - Bierofka - Johnson

Lauth

But we'd probably still lose 2-1.
With that formation, yes. :D

Baumgartlinger is not ready for prime time. I would put Ledgerwood, Jungwirth or Eberlien in that spot before him...in that order.

Thorandt...don't get me started. He's like my wife....he looks busy but somehow no work ever gets done.:o

Johnson for Ledgerwood on the wing. The boy has speed and would take everyone's mind off of Bierofka....or maybe not and then he can slip in.

You did not have a keeper in the formation. Honestly, I would put Hoffmann back in. Tschauner is TOOOO quiet back there. Michi would whip them back into shape. Iw ould even be willing to give Krauss a few turns at keeper.

[LoewenBoy]

Daniel Baier. Remember him? Former 1860 midfielder who wanted out of 1860 with the "no promotion clause" from two seasons ago went to VfL but never seemed to crack the starting 11 (odd that Marcel Schaeffer did, Danny-boy:p). Well now he is back in the 2.BL but playing for FC Augsburg (http://www.eyep.tv/2.-bundesliga/fc-augsburg/fc-augsburg-daniel-baier-wieder-in-bayern.html) on a one year loan from Wolfsburg.


So the question stands: Who has their head in the sand?
1860 for not getting him on a one year loan to deepen out bench? OR
Danny Baier for thinking he was 1.BL material?

[goindownsouth]

I say #2.

[LoewenBoy]

....on Günther Gorenzel-Simonitsch who was the co-trainer and the last hold-over from Schachner. He was in charge of fitness training. Not sure why he was let go other than they had to fire someone and Kurz is old friends with Reuter, so it was not going to be him.....for now.

I guess he should have seen the writing on the wall when they ALSO signed Uwe Wolf as "co-trainer" at the beginning of the summer. Well, the first head has dropped.

http://www.austria-archiv.at/images/betreuer/gorenzel-simonitsch-guether.jpg

[footyfan1]

Daniel Baier. Remember him? Former 1860 midfielder who wanted out of 1860 with the "no promotion clause" from two seasons ago went to VfL but never seemed to crack the starting 11 (odd that Marcel Schaeffer did, Danny-boy:p). Well now he is back in the 2.BL but playing for FC Augsburg (http://www.eyep.tv/2.-bundesliga/fc-augsburg/fc-augsburg-daniel-baier-wieder-in-bayern.html) on a one year loan from Wolfsburg.


So the question stands: Who has their head in the sand?
1860 for not getting him on a one year loan to deepen out bench? OR
Danny Baier for thinking he was 1.BL material?



Reuter is my boy, but definitely #1.

Baier is 1. Liga material, he's just with the wrong club.

Dude would be starting with my club.

[LoewenBoy]

Reuter is my boy, but definitely #1.

Baier is 1. Liga material, he's just with the wrong club.

Dude would be starting with my club.
I am thinking Baier must have pissed someone off during his departure. Reuter does not strike me as a guy to miss too much or to hold a grudge if a player leaves because he has a BL clause. That's why I think it was either Retuer really had no clue he was coming available (though how you could miss that is beyond me) OR he knew and simply did not want him. I guess we will never know.

Baier's interview did somewhat suggest that no one else had been in contact with his agent and that this was not so much a surprise.

[footyfan1]

I am thinking Baier must have pissed someone off during his departure. Reuter does not strike me as a guy to miss too much or to hold a grudge if a player leaves because he has a BL clause. That's why I think it was either Retuer really had no clue he was coming available (though how you could miss that is beyond me) OR he knew and simply did not want him. I guess we will never know.

Baier's interview did somewhat suggest that no one else had been in contact with his agent and that this was not so much a surprise.


Dude, you know I keep up on these things quite well, but I had zero clue Baier was available for loan. I don't think it was something that was well known.

Besides, could 1860 pony up a loan fee?? According to Transfermarkt.de, Augsburg paid Wolfsburg a 100,000 Euro loan fee.


Oh and I'm sure you know I exaggerated a bit when I said Baier would start for my club. He would not.

I was writing "Baier" and thinking "Schaefer."

But I would take Baier in Dortmund. I'm really not convinced that Nuri Sahin will reach that great potential of his.

He's being surpassed left and right by other players.

EDIT: Well, maybe Sahin isn't getting surpassed "left and right", but he is at least in Germany by Kroos and Marin.

[LoewenBoy]

Dude, you know I keep up on these things quite well, but I had zero clue Baier was available for loan. I don't think it was something that was well known.
Two thoughts here:

One would assume you would keep track of former good players who came up through your ranks just in case they ever became "available" again. Also, give that he has ties with many current 1860 players it is inconceivable to me they did not know.
One would assume your scouting organization is keeping track of ANY good BL players (who were former 2.BL players) who may not be getting playing time AND might fit a need we have.
As far as 100k is concerned, yes 1860 has some money to spend. Let's put it this way, if we sit on cash now rather than pay out, we will be the richest club in the 3.BL.;)

[LoewenBoy]

In the video here (http://www.eyep.tv/2.-bundesliga/tsv-1860-munchen/tsv-1860-munchen-trainer-kurz-unter-beobachtung.html) you can clearly see Markus in team traming and not simply in the "lauf training" he as been seen in during previous sessions. My guess is there may be pressure on him to get back on the field given the current state of things. It would be great if he were ready for Duisburg. I wonder: would you take a chance on a guy like that in a few prep games for the U23s? Or would you stick him straight in a BL match? I would think the former and not the latter, but imagine what would happen if he got MORE injured in a training match.

[LoewenBoy]

As if making fun of Thorandt and Tschauner were not easy enough, 1860 gives us fodder with which to do so. They send both of these guys for a photo session to 1860 latest sponsor partner "Smile Eyes". Hopefully their eye sight has been fully restored to 20/20 and will no longer be making bone-headed bad plays as a result of poor sight.:D
http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/archiv/bildergalerien/2008_2009/smile_eyes_2008-09-05/_P7H3417-Kopie.jpg
http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/archiv/bildergalerien/2008_2009/smile_eyes_2008-09-05/_P7H3423-Kopie.jpg