Sticking Up for Teammates

[PVancouver]

Clyde Simms was sporting a nice little scratch under his right eye from Tuesday night's game. "Just a scratch," he said as he walked out of the interview room.

I spoke with Marc Burch a bit about the whole Blanco situation. He said he didn't have much more to add and that the USSF will look at the tape and handle it from there. I asked him about how this will affect the rivalry between the two teams.

"I think this is really our rival," Burch said. "People say New York is but I feel like when we play Chicago it's a little heated. They've been knocking us out of tournaments and we finally got them out of one but they've been getting the better of us when it comes down to crunch time and I think this will really spark it up a little bit."

Burch said he isn't happy he was red-carded and will miss the semis, but that he doesn't regret protecting Simms.

"I was sticking up for my teammate and I don't regret sticking up for him," Burch said. "But that sucks that you have to sit out, I'm going to let my team down a little bit by not playing. But I felt at the time we needed it. Maybe we came together a little bit more for the next overtime to make sure we didn't get scored on. But you can't really regret anything you do."

Why do MLS players in particular, or any player in a refereed game, feel they need to "stick up for a teammate"?

It is heard and seemingly accepted quite often.

Do MLS coaches condone this?

Blanco was sent off.

Is Blanco not going to punch another player because Burch threw him to the ground?

"You can't really regret anything you do."

Apparently neither Burch nor Blanco regret anything they do.

[HeadHunter]

Why do MLS players in particular, or any player in a refereed game, feel they need to "stick up for a teammate"?

Seriously? I'm not gonna take on your subpoints because they flow from the main point.

I'm apologize if any of the following comes of as rude but I was shocked that any one would a) be suprised by this b) expect there to be any particular support for changing this attitude and c) if having played any sport at any competitive level fail to understand this mentality.

Bluntly, this "band of brothers" mentality is what drives sport teams cohesive unity and allows teams to reach higher levels as a result of working for each other. Good coaches actively work to foster a us against the world mentality to motivate and push there players. One way in which this TEAM mentality can manifest itself is in this desore to protect or revenge your teammates.

In fact as referees we must be aware of this sentiment and actively manage it. We will sometimes be forgiven for having a different standard of foul recognition, very occasionally get away with "a just didn't see it that way" but if the players feel we are allowing the other side to get away with gross violations of the unwritten rules by which they expect the game to be played, they will take justice into their own hands. That is what selling and managing flashpoint events is all about. Your presence, body language and actions all tell the players "I'm taking care of this properly, you don't have to." Sometimes emotions boil over too fast and there is nothing we can do- not blaming the ref in the Blanco-Burch incident but look where he is- back to the fracas as he administers a card elsewhere. Had he been so lucky as to catch the intial Blanco act, his personality probably could have diffused Burch's anger.

On a more general point, I feel this retailiatory sentiment is fully justified. As a player I would aggressively act to support a teammate and I have no problem with that. As a ref you want to avoid the escalaction, but you need to appreciate the valid emotion that drives this reaction and I wonder how if a referee doesn't appreciate and understand the emotion he can effectively manage it

[PVancouver]

Maybe this wasn't the best example.

Blanco was working hard to find space and draw free kicks, and his abrasive approach soon helped spark a heated tussle at the end of the first period. Fred had fouled Thorrington as the two leaped for a ball in front of the team benches, and as Moody arrived to card United's Brazilian midfielder Chicago tried to play the free kick to Blanco quickly.

Moody turned to stop play but the veteran Mexican had already been knocked to the turf by a hearty block from Burch, and in the mass of angry bodies that quickly congregated Blanco put his hands to Simms' face, drawing an angry reaction from Burch. Moody and his assistants waded in to calm the melee and eventually, handed out red cards to Blanco and Burch -- a development the United fans cheered wildly despite their own player's ejection.

Play was going to be stopped regardless of whatever Blanco did, he would not have been able to restart play because a card was already being issued. The likelihood that none of the other officials saw what Blanco did was slim, IMO. Blanco tried to retrieve the ball in a ridiculously violent way.

Burch reacted before the referee could even turn around and stop play. We don't actually get to see on the video what he did. But after the referee has turned and blown his whistle, there is still more pushing and shoving and players show up to get in their two cents worth. It is silly.

Time and time again referees blow the whistle to stop play, but the players keep scuffling before justice can even be handed out.

[Alberto]

Seriously? I'm not gonna take on your subpoints because they flow from the main point.

I'm apologize if any of the following comes of as rude but I was shocked that any one would a) be suprised by this b) expect there to be any particular support for changing this attitude and c) if having played any sport at any competitive level fail to understand this mentality.

Bluntly, this "band of brothers" mentality is what drives sport teams cohesive unity and allows teams to reach higher levels as a result of working for each other. Good coaches actively work to foster a us against the world mentality to motivate and push there players. One way in which this TEAM mentality can manifest itself is in this desire to protect or revenge your teammates.

In fact as referees we must be aware of this sentiment and actively manage it. We will sometimes be forgiven for having a different standard of foul recognition, very occasionally get away with "a just didn't see it that way" but if the players feel we are allowing the other side to get away with gross violations of the unwritten rules by which they expect the game to be played, they will take justice into their own hands. That is what selling and managing flashpoint events is all about. Your presence, body language and actions all tell the players "I'm taking care of this properly, you don't have to." Sometimes emotions boil over too fast and there is nothing we can do- not blaming the ref in the Blanco-Burch incident but look where he is- back to the fracas as he administers a card elsewhere. Had he been so lucky as to catch the intial Blanco act, his personality probably could have diffused Burch's anger.

On a more general point, I feel this retailiatory sentiment is fully justified. As a player I would aggressively act to support a teammate and I have no problem with that. As a ref you want to avoid the escalaction, but you need to appreciate the valid emotion that drives this reaction and I wonder how if a referee doesn't appreciate and understand the emotion he can effectively manage it


You know what, at a professional level this is completely juvenile behavior. It's fine for high school and club soccer for younger players. At a pro level these players are completely mercenary. They get traded or their contracts are sold every year. There is no allegiance to a team. With the constant changes to line-ups every season, that cohesion you speak of doesn't exist. Yeah, coaches try to work on developing team unity, but it really is very difficult with the self centered nature of today's athletes. The fans care more about the teams than the players do. Just this past NBA season there was a prime example of this at the end of a playoff game when a Detroit Piston was laughing it up with an opponent after a tough loss that put the Pistons one game away from elimination. Rip Hamilton was upset at his teammate, but these players generally don't care that much. It all about me. Ask any pro coach and he will tell you that juggling the egos of professional athletes is the most difficult obstacle in getting them to play as a team. Usually the only motivation is benching the player. Now, that does not mean that in the course of a match players don't lose their temper and emotions get the better of them, especially if the person getting mugged is a friend, but in these cases we as referees need to move quickly to stamp out and punish the offenders. Sanction with the relevant card the player that committed the foul. Talk to the players about how they took the right approach in not retaliating.

I agree with your point that we need to deal with this situation and I agree with your methods of handling it, but I also recognize the fact that it is only in sports that this kind a juvenile behavior happens among adults. If you did this in the work place or real life, you would be hauled off to jail. I really wish players would just grow the F up and act like men not children.

[Ref Flunkie]

I don't consider it juvenile at all, but I don't feel like getting into a big discussion as to why. I pretty much agree with HH on this....this is the essence of sports.

[Tarheel Ref]

I don't consider it juvenile at all, but I don't feel like getting into a big discussion as to why. I pretty much agree with HH on this....this is the essence of sports.

Same opinion here...sorry Alberto have to disagree with you this time.

[PVancouver]

So in Burch's case, you would send him off, but give him a thumbs up for a great play?

If Burch did the right thing, why is he being sent off?

[Tarheel Ref]

So in Burch's case, you would send him off, but give him a thumbs up for a great play?

If Burch did the right thing, why is he being sent off?

Didn't see the play or the match but I'm assuming I'm pretty familiar with the situation having seen similar ones previously from the POV of ref, player, coach and spectator......

Whether Burch did right or wrong depends on the point of view...refs KNOW what he did was wrong which is why he was correctly sent off...the opposing team agrees with this sentiment...Burch's team thinks (probably) that he did the right thing and (probably) shouldn't have been sent off...spectators probably just want to see more confrontation for the ref to deal with....

I've had teammates come to my defense and done so for them...no changes in the LOTG will ever stop this. Yes they're in it for the money but that's not the only thing winning counts for a lot too (since it also will get them more $$$). To suggest that professional players are in it ONLY for the money is IMHO wrong the money is a great perk for doing something they love.

[HeadHunter]

So in Burch's case, you would send him off, but give him a thumbs up for a great play?

If Burch did the right thing, why is he being sent off?

I would send him off, understand why he did it, expect him to do it again and probably do it myself if I were in his position.

That being said he is being sent off because he escalated the confrontation and both teams want to see "justice" (not always the exact same thing as the laws) being done here. Also, there is a level of behavior (SFP or VC) for which players are strictly liable, that is I understand and sympathize with why they committed the act in a specific case, but I still apply the rule

I certainly could see varients on Burch's actions getting a yellow or even nothing- turns into ITOOR of course. In this case it sounds like no one, Burch included, has any problem with his red but people are okay with his behavior

[intechpc]

Holy Crap!! Seeing PV's quotes here (don't see his msgs as he's still ignored), now I finally understand his totally messed up attitudes. Anyone who has coached or played a team sport would understand why players feel a strong desire to stand up for their teammates, even at the professional level. I totally disagree with you Alberto. If I were coaching an MLS team, I don't care if I just signed the guy yesterday, I want the team to have the mentality that they need to stick up for eachother. Now I probably don't want them to act out on that motivation, but I want them to have the desire.

Folks, if you've never played a team sport before, this is what makes the difference between a good team and a championship teams. Teams that have that family cohesiveness are the ones that will be there to the end. This is a huge component of team sports and something that coaches actively seek to develop in their players. The drive to stand up for someone on your team is part of this cohesion. Now, most players and coaches are smart enough to see the bigger picture that there are better ways to handle it than risking a send-off and thereby hurting your team.

Sorry folks, but if you can't understand players having this mentality, you should really consider how much you could be lacking as a referee. Not only does understanding this behavior help you better predict when situations like this will occur, it also helps you relate with the players to better manage the situation before it gets out of hand.

[Alberto]

Now, most players and coaches are smart enough to see the bigger picture that there are better ways to handle it than risking a send-off and thereby hurting your team.



Thank you for reinforcing my belief that this is worst of jock mentality and juvenile behavior. This type of behavior does hurt your team. There are other ways of dealing with it than lashing out at violence with more violence. This is the same as the stupidity of handling a ball at the goal line. Why do it? Why would you allow a penalty kick restart and play down a man for the balance of the match? Perhaps if the game were tied and there were only minutes to play might this be a sound decision. Otherwise it's foolish.

[Funkfoot]

I think you guys are forgetting that Blanco is the biggest dick in the league and gets away with a lot. If he would get more cautions for dissent and simulation, not to mention just being called for the other dirty plays he makes, other players would not feel the need for "vigilante justice."

[intechpc]

Thank you for reinforcing my belief that this is worst of jock mentality and juvenile behavior.

Partially right. The behavior (if one choses to act on it) is not a mature way to react. However the "mentality" of protecting your teammates is healthy and good for the team.

[intechpc]

I think you guys are forgetting that Blanco is the biggest dick in the league and gets away with a lot. If he would get more cautions for dissent and simulation, not to mention just being called for the other dirty plays he makes, other players would not feel the need for "vigilante justice."

I do agree that Blanco gets away with a ton of simulation that should be cautioned in addition to quite a bit of retalliation of his own. I don't know that I would blame that for the behavior discussed in this thread but I suppose it's possible.

[Tarheel Ref]

Thank you for reinforcing my belief that this is worst of jock mentality and juvenile behavior. This type of behavior does hurt your team. There are other ways of dealing with it than lashing out at violence with more violence. This is the same as the stupidity of handling a ball at the goal line. Why do it? Why would you allow a penalty kick restart and play down a man for the balance of the match? Perhaps if the game were tied and there were only minutes to play might this be a sound decision. Otherwise it's foolish.

This is all true, but the jock mentality and juvenile behavior are just a couple more things we need to take into account, recognize and then manage well to prevent these behaviors from becoming a bigger part of the game than if we keep them to a controlled minimum. As a ref I don't like it, sure, but as a player and coach it is definitely a factor to be taken into consideration and used to gain an advantage if possible. Intimidation is a part of any physical competition, why do you think so many teams have gone to the black uniforms a la the Oakland Raiders? (and then making us refs change from the original black to the almost as intimidating...magenta?)

Not saying I like retaliatory actions but they will always be a possibility....