Best of Europe - 1950 to 2005

[Gregoriak]

I would be interested in everyone's view on the best European players since 1950, each decade divided into two 5-year-periods, by picking a starting XI for every period representing the best players of that time span.

It would go like this:

1950-54
1955-59
1960-64
1965-69
1970-74
1975-79
1980-84
1985-89
1990-94
1995-99
2000-04

[Gregoriak]

1950-1954

-----------11-Zoltan CZIBOR-----9 Gunnar NORDAHL-----7-Stanley MATTHEWS
---------------------10-Ferenc PUSKAS ------8-Sandor KOCSIS

------------------------6-Nils LIEDHOLM-----4-Jozsef BOZSIK

------------3-Roger BYRNE-------5-Ernst OCWIRK------2-Branko STANKOVIC

---------------------------------1-Vladimir BEARA

[Gregoriak]

1955-1959

-----------11-Francisco GENTO-----9 Just FONTAINE-----7-Helmut RAHN
-------------------10-Alfredo DI STÉFANO ------8-Raymond KOPA

---------------------6-Danny BLANCHFLOWER---4-Jozsef BOZSIK

------------3-Roger MARCHE-------5-Billy WRIGHT------2-Orvar BERGMARK

------------------------------------1-Lev YASHIN

[Twix]

Question for you Gregoriak. Why doesn't Santamaria or Kubala make any of first two sides? No Duncan Edwards or Tommy Taylor in the '55-'59 teams?

I don't know the formation of the era, so I'll just compress it into a flat 4-3-3. Here's what I've got down.

1960 - 1964

Ferenc Puskas---------------Eusebio--------------Luis Suarez

Gianni Rivera---------------Mario Coluna-----Danny Blanchflower

Giacinto Fachetti--Cesare Maldini--Giovanni Trappatoni--Tarcisio Burgnich

-------------------Alberto da Costa Pereira

Other players I considered.

Kocsis
Czibor
Mackay
Gento
Altafini
Mazzola

[Twix]

1965 - 1969

---------Dragan Dzajic-----Jimmy Greaves------George Best-----------

--------Bobby Charlton-----------------------Kurt Hamrin-------------

--------------------------Nobby Stiles-------------------------------

-Giacinto Fachetti--Bobby Moore--Bill Foulkes--Kurt Schnellinger(?)-----

---------------------------Dino Zoff----------------------------------

Other players considered.

Eusebio
Law
Rivera
Coluna
Crerand
Johnstone
Riva
Mazzola

[Tribune]

Twix, if I were you, I would seriously reconsider those teams. They are way off - both in terms of prime periods and positions of some players.

For the last one, for instance, Greaves has no business being in an all-time list for 1965-1969. His best years were 1959-1965.

Zoff had his best years post-1970. For this period, Banks is a dead cert at the keeper position.

Schnellinger played on the left, btw, as Fachetti.

Hamrin also had his best years before 1965.

Coluna was also prior to 1965.

In your first team, Puskas, Suarez, Blanchflower and Burgnich are out of position.

Suarez was an insider, not a wide player and always played like that for both Barca and Inter.

Burgnich was a central defender, not a fullback and for Blanchflower you can see in Gregoriak's team where he operates. Besides this, everything is fine.

Yashin is also ahead of Costa Pereira for 1960-1964...

For 1970 - 1974 :


Cruyff -------Muller ------- Keizer
--------Haan -----Netzer-----
---------Beckenbauer--------
Krol - Hulshoff - Moore - Vogst
------------Zoff-------------

Not clear-cut choices : Pirri, Shesternev as CB pairing instead of Hulshoff/Moore, possibly Fachetti instead of Krol, Neeskens/Hoeness instead of Haan/Netzer

[squidward123]

What about overath? Every time I see netzer I think overath has to be there. And breitner?

[comme]

When Greg told me about this thread I was really interested, so hopefully it will get a good reponse. I've worked on the basis that once a player is used, he cannot be used again.

1950-4

------------------Grosics

---------------Marche--Byrne

-----------Bozsik--Ocwirk--Hanappi

Matthews--Walter--Hidegkuti--Puskas--Finney

1955-9

---------------Yashin

------------Bergmark--Netto

--------Liedholm--Wright--Edwards

--Kopa--Kocsis--Di Stefano--Kubala--Czibor

[comme]

In your first team, Puskas, Suarez, Blanchflower and Burgnich are out of position.

Suarez was an insider, not a wide player and always played like that for both Barca and Inter.

Burgnich was a central defender, not a fullback and for Blanchflower you can see in Gregoriak's team where he operates. Besides this, everything is fine.


Just a few points.

Suarez, I think did sometimes play as a winger, but on the left not the right. Obviously for Barca Czibor played wide left and at Inter Corso did. In World Soccer (I forget which year off the top of my head) Eric Batty included Suarez at outside left in his annual World XI once, so I think he could play there though he rarely did.

Also as I understood it Burgnich operated on the right of a back three, or at least that is where he was normally shown in formations, with Facchetti on the left and Picchi in the middle. As such I think he could play either right or centre back. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also Blanchflower was a right-half, not a left-half. Mackay played left-half with Maurice Norman as the centre-half.

[Gregoriak]

1960-1964

-----------11-Francisco GENTO-----9 EUSEBIO-----7-Amando AMANCIO
---------------------10-Ferenc PUSKAS ----8-Omar SIVORI

------------------------6-Mario COLUNA---4-Josef MASOPUST

-----3-Karl-Heinz SCHNELLINGER--5-John CHARLES----2-Tarcisio BURGNICH

------------------------------------1-Lev YASHIN

[comme]

1960-4

-----------------Pereira

---------Jusufi--Charles--Schnellinger

---------Blanchflower--Masopust

--Hamrin--Greaves--Seeler--Sivori--Gento


1965-9

-------------Banks

Burgnich--Moore--Pirri--Fachetti

-Best--Coluna--Charlton--Rivera

--------Eusebio--Albert

[Gregoriak]

I've worked on the basis that once a player is used, he cannot be used again.

Personally, I will feature players more than once if I think they performed well enough in various periods.

Also as I understood it Burgnich operated on the right of a back three, or at least that is where he was normally shown in formations, with Facchetti on the left and Picchi in the middle. As such I think he could play either right or centre back. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have him down as a right back who also played CB.

Also Blanchflower was a right-half, not a left-half. Mackay played left-half with Maurice Norman as the centre-half.

Some adjusting of positions has to be undertaken for some players, for example I had to include Bozsik throughout the 1950s, and since he usually played as right half, Blanchflower had to move to the left. Alternatively I would have to leave Blanchflower out and let a less accomplished player take his place, but I think Blanchflower could have done well playing on the left.

[comme]

Personally, I will feature players more than once if I think they performed well enough in various periods.

I'm just trying to give credit to as many names as possible.


Some adjusting of positions has to be undertaken for some players, for example I had to include Bozsik throughout the 1950s, and since he usually played as right half, Blanchflower had to move to the left. Alternatively I would have to leave Blanchflower out and let a less accomplished player take his place, but I think Blanchflower could have done well playing on the left.

I agree, I think he would do fine at left-half, I was simply pointing out that by putting him at right-half Twix hadn't made an error (in fact that was his preferred position).

Once the move from an attacking centre-half (like Santamaria or Ocwirk) to a defensive one (like Jack Charlton) was made, the central midfield was narrowed anyway so the difference between the left and right halves was decreased anyway.

[Gregoriak]

1965-1969

------------------------11-Florian ALBERT------------9-EUSEBIO


-----------10-Gianni RIVERA ------8-Robert CHARLTON-----7-George BEST

----------------------------------4-Franz BECKENBAUER


3-Giacinto FACCHETTI--6-Albert SHESTERNIEV--5-Robert MOORE--2-Berti VOGTS


--------------------------------------1-Gordon BANKS

[Twix]

Revised 1965 - 1969

---------Dragan Dzajic-----Denis Law------George Best-----------

--------Bobby Charlton-----------------Jimmy Johnstone-------------

--------------------------Nobby Stiles-------------------------------

-Giacinto Fachetti--Bobby Moore-------Pirri-----Berti Vogts-----------

------------------------Gordon Banks----------------------------------

[Twix]

1995 - 1999

----------Ronaldo------Del Piero-------
--Giggs-------------------------Rivaldo
-------Redondo--------Keane---------
---------------Sammer---------------
---Maldini------Nesta-----Thuram-----
-------------Schmeichel-------------

I know Rivaldo didn't usually play on the right, but I wanted to find a way of fitting him into the side.

[comme]

Twix you may want to rework that for Europeans (I have included Di Stefano and Sivori as they were naturalised).

1970-4

-----------------Maier

Vogts--Beckenbauer--Shesternev--Krol

-----Neeskens--Netzer--Overath

----------------Cruyff

-------------Muller--Riva

[Twix]

Twix you may want to rework that for Europeans (I have included Di Stefano and Sivori as they were naturalised).
Yeah, the Di Stefano and Sivori bit kinda threw me off. I'll change it now.

1995 - 1999

----------Raul---------Del Piero------
--Giggs-------------------------Figo--
--------Scholes--------Keane-----
---------------Sammer---------------
---Maldini------Nesta-----Thuram-----
-------------Schmeichel-------------

[Gregoriak]

I think if a player was capped by a European national team, he can be included, even if he was born outside of Europe.

[comme]

1975-79

-------------Zoff

-Neal--Pezzey--Olsen--Breitner

-Simonsen--Souness--Antognoni

---Keegan--Bettega--Blokhin

This team is slightly lop-sided because I wanted to include both Simonsen and Keegan who play the same right-sided attacking position.


There was a bit of a dearth of good strikers in the late 70s as well. Krankl was an option, but there weren't that many who really stood out.