Scoring question

[Roehl Sybing]

Say there is a defender inside the net for whatever reason, and should stay inside the net because he is out of bounds and would be called offsides the moment he steps over the line again. The opponent shoots and the ball is certain to go in, except that the defender's body hinders the ball from crossing the plane of the goal mouth.

- Can someone who is technically out of play affect the course of the game?
- Is it ruled a goal?

[IASocFan]

Originally posted by Roehl Sybing
Say there is a defender inside the net for whatever reason, and should stay inside the net because he is out of bounds and would be called offsides the moment he steps over the line again. The opponent shoots and the ball is certain to go in, except that the defender's body hinders the ball from crossing the plane of the goal mouth.

- Can someone who is technically out of play affect the course of the game?
- Is it ruled a goal?

I don't understand your question. A defender can stay inside the net. For example, many defenders may do this on a corner kick or an indirect kick inside the penalty area. Players can't be offside on their side of the field much less in their defensive goal. The defender may stop the ball from going over the line. The defenders in the net are NOT out of play. A goal can only be scored if the ball crosses the goal line.

If an attacker is in the net, and interferes with play, he is most likely offside, and ,if so, no goal can be scored.

[whipple]

Law 10 tells us that the ball must fully cross the goal line, between the posts and under the crossbar for a goal to score. If the ball is blocked by a defender, another attacker, even the referee from crossing the plane, a goal has not scored, nor can a goal be arbitrarily awarded.

A player may leave the field in the normal course of play, though if a defender deliberately leaves the field in oder to place an attacker in an offside postion, it is considered unsporting behavior and the defender may be cautioned at the next stoppage in play. Even in this situation, if the defender prevented the ball from entering the goal, no goal would be scored and play would continue.

Sherman

[Roehl Sybing]

Sorry, I just realized what the hell I was talking about. I meant a fellow teammate, not an opposing defender, and that the hindrance is unintentional.

I am so tired... :)

[stevieb]

Originally posted by Roehl Sybing
Sorry, I just realized what the hell I was talking about. I meant a fellow teammate, not an opposing defender, and that the hindrance is unintentional.

I am so tired... :)

Now it makes more sense! If the teammate stays inside the goal and does nothing to distract his opponents and the ball goes into the net then it's a goal. If, for whatever reason, the ball hits this player before it goes across the line then, yes, he should be whistled offside (I can't imagine how there could be two defenders behind him! Unless they are even further into the goal than he is!!)

A question for the group. What is the restart if this attacker does something to interfere with an opponent while in the goal and the ball heads for/into the net?

[rcleopard]

I don't believe an attacker or defender is allowed in the goal. On the line, yes. In the goal itself? I don't know. I thought that is off the field of play.

Caution for leaving the field, if that is the case.

If a defender is in the goal and bounces the ball off them (thus saving it)...

well, that depends. If I'm incorrect (as happens often) and they are allowed in the goal.. nothing.. it's basically a ball played off the line

If they're only allowed on the line and they are in the goal fully..

Redcard and PK for DOGSO.

[stevieb]

Originally posted by rcleopard
I don't believe an attacker or defender is allowed in the goal. On the line, yes. In the goal itself? I don't know. I thought that is off the field of play.


In general you are correct that players don't belong inside the goal mouth off the field of play but just like elsewhere along the edges of the field players do end up off the FOP in the course of their play and we don't penalize them for it. As for an attacker, if he leaves the FOP to indicate to the ref that he is not participating while in an offside position, we don't penalize him for it unless he does return to participate.

Steve

[IASocFan]

Originally posted by rcleopard
I don't believe an attacker or defender is allowed in the goal. On the line, yes. In the goal itself? I don't know. I thought that is off the field of play.
Sometimes momentum carries a player over the goalline in the net. No problem, unless offside is a consideratioin. I've seen players remain in the goal so as not to be part of the play. They're not offside if they don't effect play.


Caution for leaving the field, if that is the case.
They are basically still on the field of play.


If a defender is in the goal and bounces the ball off them (thus saving it)...
well, that depends. If I'm incorrect (as happens often) and they are allowed in the goal.. nothing.. it's basically a ball played off the line
If they're only allowed on the line and they are in the goal fully...
Defenders can be all the way behind the line or on the line. They can't put an attacker offside by going over the goalline.

Redcard and PK for DOGSO.
Whatever for???

[rcleopard]

The initial question was can a defender stand in that position in order to defend the goal. At least that's what I think was being asked. Can a defender or attacker stand in the goal?

I thought that that area was considered off the field , and so if a defender or attacker intentionally went there on a set piece or play, then he intentionally left the field of play. Note that this isn't momentum carrying him over the line, which if they were crashing towards the net on a free kick it would be.. this is the players starting in that position when the restart occurrs.

If in doing that, he denies a goal, then wouldn't that be a DOGSO?

This is assuming, of course, that you are not allowed to put yourself over the goal line into the goal at will.

Redcard Leopard

[Roehl Sybing]

Originally posted by rcleopard
The initial question was can a defender stand in that position in order to defend the goal. At least that's what I think was being asked. Can a defender or attacker stand in the goal?
Actually, the question is this: assuming that, for whatever reason, a player is completely in the goal (and thus out of play) and a shot is taken such that the ball deflects off the player but does not cross the plane of the goal mouth, is it a goal? I imagine that it should be because a player who is not in play should not affect the course of the game, yet I haven't found any provision in the LOTG for such an occasion.

[IASocFan]

Originally posted by Roehl Sybing
Actually, the question is this: assuming that, for whatever reason, a player is completely in the goal (and thus out of play) and a shot is taken such that the ball deflects off the player but does not cross the plane of the goal mouth, is it a goal? I imagine that it should be because a player who is not in play should not affect the course of the game, yet I haven't found any provision in the LOTG for such an occasion.

If the ball does not completely cross the goal line under the crossbar and between the goal posts, it is not a goal. This includes being deflected off of a player, a stray dog or bird, or a shoe thrown by a spectator. Any player can go into the goal, they are still players and may still be involved in play. Going over the touchlines or endlines does not remove a player from the game if it is done as a result of play. Leaving the field to get a drink, discuss strategy with the coach or girl friend, or to try to put an attacker offside is not legal, and ITOOTR may be worthy of a caution.

[stevieb]

Originally posted by Roehl Sybing
Actually, the question is this: assuming that, for whatever reason, a player is completely in the goal (and thus out of play) and a shot is taken such that the ball deflects off the player but does not cross the plane of the goal mouth, is it a goal? I imagine that it should be because a player who is not in play should not affect the course of the game, yet I haven't found any provision in the LOTG for such an occasion.

The laws are clear about one thing--if the ball had not completely crossed the goalline the referee cannot give a goal. What if we didn't see that the keeper had placed his water bottle (why is it the one guy who stands pretty much in one place the entire game needs a water bottle! :^) inside the goal mouth and it is close to the goal line. Then there is a shot at goal which hits said water bottle causing the ball to not cross the line completely. Can we give a goal in such a circumstance? As much as we'd like to, the answer is a resounding "NO", unless we'd like to make that game protestable.

As unfair as this might seem we cannot give something that did not occur.

[comme]

Is this prompted by Christian Vieri being inside the goal for Inzaghi's first goal in the Italy-Wales game?


Basically if a player is inside the goal and interfering with play, he is offside, if the ball touches him, he must be interfering with play. So if an attacker stopped a goal whilst inside the net, it would be no goal.

If it was defender in the net there would be nothing wrong with it, there is nothing in the rules to say that a player cannot step outside the pitch. Many defender stand inside the net when defending set pieces. So in either case, if a player stopped the ball going into the net, no goal could be given.