Aftermath of the Final [R]

[JeremyEritrea]

Loew was not able to take the pitch. Ultimately, for a quality a side as Germany is, the EM Final showed just what needs to improve for Germany to be successful. IMHO, it is not on Loew. Germany just did not have the horses Spain did.

Greatly alleviated is not the same thing as completely solved.

I just don't think that Löw is a very good coach. And prior to serving as Klinsmann's assistant, he never really accomplished all that much as a coach. Unless you consider winning the prestigious Austrian league as a major accomplishment. :)

[QuakeAttack]

Should be fun. I just hope for a good game.

In the big games, you see set plays become very important. I believe this gives an advantage to Germany. However, if Spain can score first, I think Germany will have a tough time getting the ball back (Spain is great at taking the air out of the ball). Also, I would expect Spain to attack the centerbacks on the ground.

I don't think Sweinstager will be as effective, but Polodski will be a factor. Klose is an unknown (similar to Torres). I think Torres will play better and be able to handle the physcial nature of Germany in the back due to his time in the EPL.

I believe Spain's bench is a little deeper than Germany's.

However, in the end, it's a mental game. If Spain is patient and plays within themselves, I think that it will be hard for them to lose. However, if they get caught up in the event, Germany will win.


Hey, I got it right. Well, at least most of it... :p

Germany was the better team the first 10-15 minutes and the game would have been really interesting if Klose could have scored off the terrible give away by Sergio Ramos in the first five minutes.

Spain settled into the game at the 20 minute mark and Germany never really threatened (except for Ballacks shot). Spain was smart in that they didn't get caught up in counterattacking and leave themselves exposed. However, I think the Germans were lucky that a second goal wasn't scored in the couple of minutes after the first goal.

The Germans were terrible with their free kicks which was probably their downfall in this game. Would have been real interesting if they had tied the game. In the end, the Germans looked tired and were no real threat in the last 10-15 minutes. However, if I was Germany, I would be pleased with the tournament. They didn't play their best and still got to the finals.

Congratulations Spain and football. One of the best tournaments that I have watched!

[JeremyEritrea]

Thanks for that info. I thought that's what he was doing.







I read somewhere that Arconda was a guest of Platini's at the match. True??

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=552154&sec=england&&cc=5901

Meanwhile, Platini has invited Luis Arconada, the goalkeeper who was guilty of a howler when the UEFA president captained France to victory over Spain in the 1984 European Championships final, to be his personal guest at tomorrow's final.

Arconada fumbled Platini's free-kick and let the ball squeeze under his body and France went on to win 2-0.

Platini said: 'I was thinking while I was shaving this morning that I took the trophy off the Spanish 24 years ago but could be handing it back to them tomorrow.

'When we called Arconada he said 'is this a joke?' but it's great to be able to invite a former opponent.'

Platini added: 'He has nothing to reproach himself for - my goal was impeccable! It was Bruno Bellone's second goal for us that was extremely lucky.'

[Oscar]

In this tournament and with their brazilian, yes.

¿Are you a German fan? Because I don't think you want to go down that route. ;)

[footyfan1]

Loew was not able to take the pitch. Ultimately, for a quality a side as Germany is, the EM Final showed just what needs to improve for Germany to be successful. IMHO, it is not on Loew. Germany just did not have the horses Spain did.

It is not all Loew's fault, but he could have done a better job. He got his ass kicked tactically twice in the tournament.

Germany lost both.

Not that Loew could have simply made a tactical change to beat Spain, but he could have at least tried to do something to make Aragones react. Something to try to take the Spanish out of their rhythm.

I think Loew's substitutions were horrible and he also needs to learn to trust his entire team, not just the same 13 or 14 guys.

No, Germany didn't have the horses Spain did, but Germany's jockey could have done a better job too.

This wasn't all on "the horses"......

[footyfan1]

¿Are you a German fan? Because I don't think you want to go down that route. ;)

Good call....

[dmar]

Yes, I was aware of Arconda's giveaway in 1984.
I wondered about their relationship.... coach and pupil?

I heard they have a friend in common or something. Palop probably grew up watching Arconada, too.


I read somewhere that Arconda was a guest of Platini's at the match. True??

True. Classy from Platini.

[REALFOREVER]

After the match, was Sergio Ramos wearing a t-shirt in memory of Antonio Puerta???

That's what I thought it was.

It's a real pity. If Puerta was alive I think he would have been part of this squad.

[footyfan1]

It's a real pity. If Puerta was alive I think he would have been part of this squad.

I agree.

[Borussia]

Hey, I got it right. Well, at least most of it...


Yep, only "most of it" ;) ... since Podolski wasn't a factor in this game (totally invisible after the interval).



They didn't play their best and still got to the finals.


Strange, isn't it? :-)

We played the worst semi-final & final in our history and still got vice-champs :eek: (how bad must the other countries have been ;) ) ... whereas we failed to reach the final in 2006 despite playing pretty attractive soccer/football (unfortunately Italy did that as well in the semi-final).

Soccer/football can be so crazy sometimes.

[uclacarlos]

We played the worst semi-final & final in our history and still got vice-champs :eek: (how bad must the other countries have been ;) ) ...
In spurts, you played poorly in the SF, but soccer is a game of spurts, and you guys were clutch in spurts. Simply an amazing performance against Turkey.

whereas we failed to reach the final in 2006 despite playing pretty attractive soccer/football (unfortunately Italy did that as well in the semi-final).

Soccer/football can be so crazy sometimes.
Indeed it is.

But w/ the WC in '06, both Argentina and Brazil were there, and even if they were eliminated, it changes the dynamics of the tourney.

That and France got on a roll w/ some fantastic players playing at the peak of their game. Same w/ Italy.

Like I said on the Germany boards, I really, really enjoyed watching your team these last couple of years, and will now watch them w/ interest as opposed to obligation b/c they're Germany and always a contender.

I think that speaks volumes to the personality of the team.

Lamb is kind of a goat right now, but if it weren't for the ice in his veins against Turkey, Germany wouldn't have been there. And to be beaten out by a perfectly played run by Torres -- who was in a hypnotic zone -- who knows what would've happened.

[footyfan1]

We played the worst semi-final & final in our history and still got vice-champs :eek: (how bad must the other countries have been ;) ) ... whereas we failed to reach the final in 2006 despite playing pretty attractive soccer/football (unfortunately Italy did that as well in the semi-final).

Soccer/football can be so crazy sometimes.


Nothing crazy about it. Germany got bounced by the hottest team in the tournament both times.

Both times they simply lost to teams better than they were/are. They just met that team in different stages of the competition. What's "crazy" about that??

Perhaps you guys should read this (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=552769&sec=euro2008&root=euro2008&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1&cc=5739) and take what the man says to heart.

[Borussia]

Nothing crazy about it. Germany got bounced by the hottest team in the tournament both times.


Turkey dominated us in the semi-final, whereas we had been at the same level with Italy.

That's what I meant.


Buona notte.

[squidward123]

I think he was spot on.

I think you're the one who just can't get past your apparent fantasy of Germany being these "Teutonic Giants of Football" just not being true at the moment.

I think this Germany team could use a bit more quality. Not a lot, but just a bit more. A strong creative presence in midfield (perhaps two) and better central defenders would do it.

This is an overall very good Germany team, but it isn't "great."

However, you seem to think they are great, no matter how much they show themselves not to be.

The guy just pointed out some weaknesses of Germany's and you react like he just called them crap.......

Not surprising.


VIENNA, June 30 (Reuters) - Germany performed as well as anyone could have hoped by reaching the Euro 2008 final but until coach Joachim Loew finds a little more quality they are unlikely to win their first major title since 1996.

Germany’s 1-0 defeat by Spain in Sunday’s final in Vienna was frustrating in many ways.

Loew’s side were comprehensively outplayed by a much more skilful team, as those traditional German virtues the players talked about throughout the tournament proved insufficient to bring them a fourth European crown.

They kept running, kept trying, kept hoping but their poorer technique was ruthlessly exposed by superior opponents.

Take the bits in bold in the context of the last 2-3 years and that is what made me think he hasn't watched them before.

I don't agree that "Germany performed as well as anyone....by reaching the final". They were pre-tournament favourites and most people's pick (ie. hope) to win it.

Of course I know this isn't a "great" Germany team man, and I know they weren't "Teutonic Giants of Football" in the past few years, but it seemed to me like the guy was trying to say the way Germany played in this tournament and the skill they showed is what they've been showing for the past 2-3 years. I didn't agree with that part.

Even against very strong opponents. Against Argentina they showed much more than yesterday, and against Italy they produced one half of a classic in terms of skill and movement.

[footyfan1]

Turkey dominated us in the semi-final, whereas we had been at the same level with Italy.

That's what I meant.


Buona notte.


Dude, the same thing happened in both of those matches. An over-matched Germany team fought Italy to the very end.

An over-matched Turkey team fought Germany to the very end.

Italy was the hottest team at the World Cup, Spain at the Euro Championships.

That's what I meant.

[footyfan1]

I don't agree that "Germany performed as well as anyone....by reaching the final". They were pre-tournament favourites and most people's pick (ie. hope) to win it.

They were my pick too, but just because people "picked them to win it", it doesn't make them one of the best teams. It doesn't mean they must make the final.

Once the tournament started, we saw who the best teams were. We saw what happened.

Pre-tournament predictions don't mean jack s#it.



Of course I know this isn't a "great" Germany team man, and I know they weren't "Teutonic Giants of Football" in the past few years, but it seemed to me like the guy was trying to say the way Germany played in this tournament and the skill they showed is what they've been showing for the past 2-3 years. I didn't agree with that part.

Actually, I think that is spot on. It is funny how Germany fans only seem to remember the Argentina, Italy and Portugal matches from WC 2006 and how quickly the Costa Rica match is forgotten.

How quickly people forget that 2006 Germany team played over their heads AT HOME!!! Do you think the Austrian team is really as good as they played?

I don't. I think they do have a nice future, but they got a boost from playing AT HOME, just as Germany did in 2006.



Even against very strong opponents. Against Argentina they showed much more than yesterday, and against Italy they produced one half of a classic in terms of skill and movement.

This isn't 2006! Perhaps if the match was in Munich, Germany would have had a better chance. But it wasn't. These guys have to stand on their own now and while not really one of the best teams at the tourney, they still managed to make the final!

I think they deserve praise for that, but people like you who can't get the hell out of 2006 won't give them the recognition they deserve because you only seem to see what you wish to see and not what is really happening.

[Dage]

I think, a lot of you are very too harsh with our boys..

[squidward123]

They were my pick too, but just because people "picked them to win it", it doesn't make them one of the best teams. It doesn't mean they must make the final.

Once the tournament started, we saw who the best teams were. We saw what happened.

Pre-tournament predictions don't mean jack s#it.

He said that Germany got further than many people hoped or something like that.

But many people actually expected them to win it so getting to the final is not exceeding that.

That's all I'm saying.





Actually, I think that is spot on. It is funny how Germany fans only seem to remember the Argentina, Italy and Portugal matches from WC 2006 and how quickly the Costa Rica match is forgotten.

How quickly people forget that 2006 Germany team played over their heads AT HOME!!! Do you think the Austrian team is really as good as they played?

I don't. I think they do have a nice future, but they got a boost from playing AT HOME, just as Germany did in 2006.

Ok, what about the 2 years between the WC and the EC?

Many people around bigsoccer alone regarded Germany as the most consistent team in europe in terms of wins and high quality football. The second of those years had a lot of injuries and while the standards dropped they were still good.





This isn't 2006! Perhaps if the match was in Munich, Germany would have had a better chance. But it wasn't. These guys have to stand on their own now and while not really one of the best teams at the tourney, they still managed to make the final!

I think they deserve praise for that, but people like you who can't get the hell out of 2006 won't give them the recognition they deserve because you only seem to see what you wish to see and not what is really happening.

I was thinking along the line that the past 2 years taught them to stand on their own and do what they did at the WC away from home.

[footyfan1]

He said that Germany got further than many people hoped or something like that.

But many people actually expected them to win it so getting to the final is not exceeding that.

That's all I'm saying.


And I'm telling you that people "expecting" them to win it doesn't mean jack s#it. By the way they ACTUALLY PERFORMED, they did a good job in getting to the final.

I think what he meant is that Germany got further than people thought AFTER THE TOURNAMENT STARTED!

After that Croatia match, I never thought they'd get past Portugal. I said they'd get past Turkey, but it wouldn't be easy. And it wasn't......


Just because we "expected" them to do better before the tournament, doesn't mean their actual ACCOMPLISHMENT is any less praiseworthy.

What it means is that we were mistaken in our estimation of them before the tournament!

WE WERE WRONG!

Actually, the draw with Belarus and their barely squeaking by Serbia raised some flags with me, but I stuck with my pick. I thought their playing in Austria and Switzerland would still practically be a "home field advantage." It didn't work out that way.



Ok, what about the 2 years between the WC and the EC?


Easy competition. The toughest team they beat in friendlies in that stretch were Sweden and Romania. They were still riding the 2006 wave then.

They barely beat England and Serbia. These are friendlies we're talking here. They also lost one to Denmark.



Many people around bigsoccer alone regarded Germany as the most consistent team in europe in terms of wins and high quality football. The second of those years had a lot of injuries and while the standards dropped they were still good.

Again, easy competition. Look back over the years at how Germany waltzed through the 2002 World Cup and qualification for this tourney. Germany had luck of the draw. When they finally faced good teams each time, they lost. Look back over the Voller years, they beat up on easy competition, but lost every match they played against the "big boys" France, Spain and Italy. They drew with Holland. Couldn't beat them. And again, they had the boost of playing at home in the 2006 World Cup.



I was thinking along the line that the past 2 years taught them to stand on their own and do what they did at the WC away from home.

Beating up on easy competition never does that. The DFB needs to schedule tougher friendlies for them.

Especially as their only real competition in their World Cup qualifying group will be Russia. The others are: Azerbaijan, Lichtenstein, Wales and Finland.

I also think Low needs to learn to trust ALL of his players and not just the same 13 or 14.

I'm still puzzled about how a Torsten Frings with a broken rib gets to play ahead of a Tim Borowski.

I'm still puzzled as to why he didn't just select Marko Marin if all he was going to do was put Piotr Trochowski on the bench and leave him there??

I'm still puzzled as to why he chose Oliver Neuville over Patrick Helmes only to play Neuville for 7 minutes against Austria the entire tourney??

I'm still puzzled as to why he didn't try Heiko Westermann over sorry a$$ Christoph Metzelder. Jansen made mistakes and got immediately benched. Why was Metzelder so special??

I called Low a "coward" for being afraid to make the tough choices in team selection before this tourney started. I also said that I could be wrong and maybe he just wanted to take players he trusted.

Well, it's obvious he didn't trust them, so I'm thinking my first guess was correct.

I think Low had better take these easy World Cup Qualifiers coming up and find a full roster he actually trusts.

If he keeps trying to ride the same 13 or 14 guys, he's going to wind up like Berti Vogts.

The beauty of what Klinsmann did is that everyone who deserved a chance got a chance. I think Low has forgotten that and has fallen back into playing the guys he trusts to keep him employed.

Which is exactly what got Germany in trouble in the first place.........

[footyfan1]

I think, a lot of you are very too harsh with our boys..

I think they deserve praise for what they did. The other guy thinks their accomplishment was disappointing because enough people thought they were pre-tournament favorites to make anything less than the title disappointing to him.

Who's being "harsh?" Me? Tell me where I'm not telling the truth about them??