Match #31 :: The Final :: Sunday 29 June [R]

[Cris 09]

Germany can't really play an open game or the Spanish midfield will run right through them.

Looking for counters from Lahm, Podolski and Schweinsteiger. Hopefully Ballack and Frings can control some aspects of the midfield and not be invisible like Arshavin while simply reduced to defensive duties.

Here's to Metzelder and Mertesacker not only winning the aerial game but not looking like they are playing with two left feetwhile the ball is on the ground.

Klose needs to do more than just wait for a long ball or a cross and create some chances as well.

Hitzlsperger needs to shoot from outside the box and Lehmann...*sigh* Lehmann needs to not "gift" any more goals

Germany has scored 10 goals but allowed 6.

Spain has scored 11 but only allowed 3 goals to crack their defence.

Two things for Germany that will determine the outcome (forget posession);
1. Not get scored on by Spain's aggressive play. They obviously know how to go forward and put the ball behind the net.

2. break through one of the best defenses of the tourney! Since the group stages, they have not had a goal against them...and they played Italy and Holland's Grim Reaper - Russia.

[ITALIA1982]

The going certainly got hot in PK's, yet... Casillas made those Italians look like amateurs taking shots!

Your post sounds like sour grapes.

Actually I would rather see Spain win...I just think that unfortunately the Germans will do it again...

[ITALIA1982]

The going certainly got hot in PK's, yet... Casillas made those Italians look like amateurs taking shots!

Your post sounds like sour grapes.

Kinda reminds me of Argentina's PK's against Germany in the '06 WC...

[uclacarlos]

Must I really dissect your post again?
Obviously not.

I think the point is that you should address the guy who said the "controversial" statement to begin with. Here it is:

I'd say Germany is favourite, not us.

Not just because of history, which is something that often matters. They're a physical team that could make things difficult for us in midfield. And they've got the ability of pulling goals out of their collective ass, which we saw against Turkey. Their biggest weakness is Lehmann.
Have at it. :rolleyes:

[Asalieri]

Germany can't really play an open game or the Spanish midfield will run right through them.

Looking for counters from Lahm, Podolski and Schweinsteiger. Hopefully Ballack and Frings can control some aspects of the midfield and not be invisible like Arshavin while simply reduced to defensive duties.

Here's to Metzelder and Mertesacker not only winning the aerial game but not looking like they are playing with two left feetwhile the ball is on the ground.

Klose needs to do more than just wait for a long ball or a cross and create some chances as well.

Hitzlsperger needs to shoot from outside the box and Lehmann...*sigh* Lehmann needs to not "gift" any more goals

Germany has scored 10 goals but allowed 6.

Spain has scored 11 but only allowed 3 goals to crack their defence.

Two things for Germany that will determine the outcome (forget posession);
1. Not get scored on by Spain's aggressive play. They obviously know how to go forward and put the ball behind the net.

2. break through one of the best defenses of the tourney! Since the group stages, they have not had a goal against them...and they played Italy and Holland's Grim Reaper - Russia.

Forget posession??? Against SPAIN? If anything, Germany will want to control the ball more often and lock up that midfield. The Spanish require precision marking, too.

[Asalieri]

Actually I would rather see Spain win...I just think that unfortunately the Germans will do it again...

I don't think so... not the way they've BEEN playing. The only way Germany can win is if they actually make use of their talents rather than allow the enemy to come to them instead.

It's almost as if Germany wants to play African soccer; all counter-strike. I don't think it'll be easy on either team, but I'd not bet on calling it for Germany just yet.

[Asalieri]

Kinda reminds me of Argentina's PK's against Germany in the '06 WC...

Yeah, that was dismal. I don't think Abbondanzieri would've been an improvement there, anyway. Once they went to Pk's I knew we were lost.

[Cris 09]

Spain will definetly be favourites going into the final...but we have all seen stranger things happen in football, and Germany is no Greece.

[HerrRupert]

Germany have the bigger players they need to intimidate the Spaniards early through force and / or tactical fouls in midfield especially so that the Spaniards can not start their short pass game then they should be fine
i think Germany will do whatever is neccesary

[ITALIA1982]

Germany have the bigger players they need to intimidate the Spaniards early through force and / or tactical fouls in midfield especially so that the Spaniards can not start their short pass game then they should be fine
i think Germany will do whatever is neccesary

agreed

[squidward123]

Germany have the bigger players they need to intimidate the Spaniards early through force and / or tactical fouls in midfield especially so that the Spaniards can not start their short pass game then they should be fine

No, I think germany will come out playing football and short passing it themselves. Like they did in every game of the world cup and against portugal. Believe it or not, doing that for most of the game has been the m.o. for 3 years.They'll do what they are most comfortable with.

If spain also come out doing the same, it then depends on who is calmer and carries it out better on the day. Confidence and keeping your nerve in a final.

[cuyseco]

GOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL SPAINNNNN

http://euro2008girls.com/pics/spanish-girl-01.jpg

[HerrRupert]

No, I think germany will come out playing football and short passing it themselves. Like they did in every game of the world cup and against portugal. Believe it or not, doing that for most of the game has been the m.o. for 3 years.They'll do what they are most comfortable with.

If spain also come out doing the same, it then depends on who is calmer and carries it out better on the day. Confidence and keeping your nerve in a final.

its not a contradiction germany will employ heavy forechecking and agressive pressing

[HerrRupert]

http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/fussball/EM-2008/2008/06/28/rot-besiegen-wir/der-beweis,geo=4978296.html

[ForeverRed]

Wow people are quite wound up in here.

[Alberto]

I think you're correct but you're generalising too much. In the 60s and 70s and in a few parts after that there was no team more skilful than Germany so they didn't have to do that.

But there have also been periods where they were the less skilful team in a semifinal or final. (There were even exceptions though like the 02 final where they outplayed a "more skilful" team or in the 86 semifinal against France).

Germany have done it both ways. That's why they've amassed the records over the years.

Here is where I think bias comes in amongst "neutral" posters : (1) When Germany have been less skillful they have not actually won the trophy. Semifinal or Final and then a loss. (2) The German sides that were either the most skillful or in the top 2-3 in a tournament are the ones that actually won the trophies. There are cases when such sides had also not won as in 1970 and 2006.

Yet why is it that the former case (1) is what is popularised and promulgated?

I would agree that other than Brasil in the 60's and 1970 W. Germany was probably the most skillful team. However, in the 1974 World Cup, Holland gave W. Germany a run for the money. Brasil was not a very good team in that world cup. It was Pele's last world cup and they were a team in transition.

In 1978 Germany were not that good. That year Brasil and Argentina along with Holland were the class of the world.

1982, Italy and Brasil were much better than W. Germany.

In 1986 Argentina was the class of that World Cup. W. Germany were very good, but they were not as good as Argentina or France, even though they beat France.

1990, Italy and Argentina were better teams than W. Germany. Germany got a gift of a penalty call otherwise if the match remained tied through over time they would have played a replay the following day and Argentina would have Claudio Canniggiia back and that would have made a difference. Clearly the worst world cup final ever. Argentina playing to play the replay bunkered the entire match and W. Germany had no options to score until the referee gave them one.

In 1994, W. Germany were not a factor going out to Bulgaria in the quarterfinals an upset and a match I also attended.

1998, Germany (reunited) played a lot of negative football. The match against Mexico in the round of 16 was terrible. Pereria, the Portuguese referee let Germany get away with murder.

2002, a strange year and many teams off form because there was no recovery period between the end of the euro season and the start of the world cup due to the monsoon season in Korea. Still Brasil was the class and several other teams were technically much better than Germany.

2006, Germany at home played attractive attacking soccer. That said they lost to a very resilient Italian team in the semi-finals. Were they the most skillful team? Hard to say take your pick between Italy, Germany, Portugal, Holland and France. They were all pretty equal in skill and talent.

[Dage]

In '06 it was clearly between Argentinia, Germany and Italy. And I think, for the rest of your list, there are a lot of different points of view helled by football fans all over. Especially in '94, when the German team in my opinion was one of the biggest NM we ever had, losing against Bulgaria with a very bad day performance, arroganced towards the opponent and an unbelievable Letchkov.

[benztown]

1990, Italy and Argentina were better teams than W. Germany. Germany got a gift of a penalty call otherwise if the match remained tied through over time they would have played a replay the following day and Argentina would have Claudio Canniggiia back and that would have made a difference. Clearly the worst world cup final ever. Argentina playing to play the replay bunkered the entire match and W. Germany had no options to score until the referee gave them one.


1990 was between England and Germany. Argentina was way past their prime and Italy overachieving...Toto Schillaci anyone? Who was neher heard of again?

[+Gooner+]

Sweden is not an easy side to play against. They're quite good, fyi.

Greece won the damn tournament in '04. That's no laughing matter. And the "Spain" that beat them was made up (almost) entirely by the 2nd string.

Russia throttled one of the best teams in the tournament in Holland. Both Spain and Russia dismissed the survivors from the Group of Death. Not bad, I must say.

8 teams advanced out of group play. But I don't think the quality of the tournament would've been terribly compromised if any of 11 or 12 sides advanced. And that's w/ England at home and two lamentable automatic berths that took up space. That's the beauty of the Euro Cup, btw.

In short, you're selling too many teams short by dismissing Spain's accomplishments. The fact is that the vast majority of ppl felt that Spain outplayed the reigning world champion last Sunday and then proceeded to throttle a side that kept England out of the Cup, all while not turning in one poor performance since the start of the tournament.

Credit where credit is due.

Well, from a German perspective Sweden are a very easy team to beat. I was quite astonished that Spain needed extra time to finally score a second. And Greece was simply woeful, we don't even need to discus this team. I am not going to rate those games better than they deserve to be rated. The games against Russia were really good but Russia has gave them the space to play their game. Russia has a young team and they have shown in the qualifiers as well that they are still pretty inconsistent, getting beaten by England 3-0, drawing twice with Croatia, getting beaten by Israel and drawing once against them. It's not like they are worldbeaters.

Having said that, Spain did very well, they play some wonderful football if given the space, they are very consistent and imo favourites to win the final.

[+Gooner+]

Poland???

You mean P-o-l-a-n-d Poland?

Are you sure 'bout that?


Oh come on, leave Poland alone. They gave us some serious trouble at the WC while on the other hand we just overran Sweden both at the WC and a friendly afterwards. They didn't know what hit them. Sweden are not better than Poland. Also, Poland played a good qualifier and it's not like they were crap against us. It's just that Sweden and Poland are not on par with any of the big teams.