Semifinal #1 Germany v Turkey - Post game discussion

[sinan]

I love Germany, I support the German national team and I reserve the right to be satisfied with any victory that places us in the final of the European Championships. Goals are entertaining, and winning is entertaining - I'd say I have plenty of cause to be entertained by the way Germany are playing.
I assume you said to my post. Ok then its difference between cultures, good to know that.
This was our first time in semi final in an Euro, thus everybody is satisfied.
But if we do something worser then final next time, people will highly critize. Right or not, this is Turkish culture, people will be looking for improvement, will not be satisfied by a semi final again.

Similarly we should understand Greece. What about movie 300, it was a heroic story of a defence.
Maybe defense make people happy in Greek culture, and Greece was happy when they won Euro 2004, dont blame them( I never blamed, you cant expect Greece winning cup playing offensively), they deserved it.

The team who will win this cup, will deserve too,

Please just give up this 'dream team Netherland deserved so much' , bla bla thing. This is not Oscar or Emmy awards given based on critics, this is football, played on the pitch, ends in the pitch.

[squidward123]

2. Turkey deserves to be in the final???? How about the 2 - 0 loss to Portugal? Germany won Portugal because of the non-call push from Ballack on Ferreira that should have nulled the goal. However, it was a very close game (would have ended on spot kicks).


if germany were not leading 3-1 at the end then they'd have been concentrating fully and postiga would not have scored in that way. In fact it was quite obvious by that stage that both teams had dropped a lot in intensity and that the game was petering out. It was just the substitute nani for portugal who turned up to work space and cross the ball.

So if ballack doesn't score, don't take the 2nd portuguese goal for granted.

[squidward123]

sinan

germany are in their 13th final, but this is not the same set of players that got to the first 12.

Let's say this was 1978 and beckenbauer, mueller and overath were playing in argentina, people would want to win it in total style after 3 straight finals. Not happy with just a win (of course 1972 was won in total style already).

But this is a different team. They are a good team as they showed in WC06 and were the best quality and most consistent team in europe from 06-08, BUT, they have had problems in the euros and have played 2 good games, 2 bad games and 1 decent game (today).

They are not some invincible side.

Why do people expect more?

I get the feeling throughout this thread and the last one that people use very different standards to judge germany because of past german teams.

Comments like "rubbish german team...I can't believe they got to the final!".

Even if turkey outplayed germany today, it was not by a lot. (Personally turkey took the first half and germany controlled the 2nd, so it was even, maybe with a slight edge to germany.)

But people make comments like the one I put in quotes because they judge by different standards. Do they not remember the good game v/s portugal where germany did outplay portugal? Or Poland?

I think people are harsher on germany and see things more negatively than they are in games like today where the game was actually even. This is then made worse by it being a semifinal and germany reaching yet another final because of it.

I mean if germany lost today 2-3 and played exactly like turkey did while turkey played like germany did, would there be people saying "poor germany...."

just a rant

[sinan]

sinan


Even if turkey outplayed germany today, it was not by a lot. (Personally turkey took the first half and germany controlled the 2nd, so it was even, maybe with a slight edge to germany.)

But people make comments like the one I put in quotes because they judge by different standards. Do they not remember the good game v/s portugal where germany did outplay portugal? Or Poland?

I think people are harsher on germany and see things more negatively than they are in games like today where the game was actually even. This is then made worse by it being a semifinal and germany reaching yet another final because of it.




I really read almost all messages, but could not notice comments like `rubbish` or `poor`. Thus I thought he was implying us. and answered,

We all understand I think each other, but dude if you say this was a game Germany played decent I dont want to imagine, when they play worse,
so good good luck in final (though I dont believe in luck, but if there is such a thing called luck, I wish it stands with you)

but really I understood your sentiment here, even a slight comment make you think people are trying to say bad thing to you. I read somewhere, or some German said to me how bad effect these movies about WW II had on Germany.

I really respect Germany, and I dont hate Germany, Das Boot, Stalingrad are two of my favourite movies, so guys please relax nobody in Turkey just watch a Hollywood movie and think German these way, and at least in Turkey they did not teach us to belittle a nation when discussing an opinion.

Did you see any negative comments by Turks here? I read most the Turkish forums, the worst thing they say are (the most fanatics) about Lahm`s and Germany unfair tactical fouls, and Metzelder playing theatre (when he was requesting from ref a second yellow to Semih). But did not see any here by any Turkish guy, maybe from others. Even Turkish claims are just personal, not a sentence involving `rubbish , poor Germany or Germans`. So please, just ignore them (who are not Turks and saying `rubbish` etc), or dont blame Turkish people. You guys sound like Turks are saying these things.

just take it easy, and have the fun, go to some bar to cheer or church to pray, thank to God, whatever, no need to approval from anybody, Germany is in final, history will record that.

I mean if germany lost today 2-3 and played exactly like turkey did while turkey played like germany did, would there be people saying "poor germany...."
Probably, you know, some people have hatred, dislike against to some countries, regardless of football played (political or personal), so no need to take them serious right?

lastly I didnt say people expect more from Germany, I just asked. In Turkey people always request more, try to improve, I thought similar for Germany. It was my wrong.No judgment here.

Congratulations again.

[Albirrojo]

It's your right to rant.

I'm happy for the fans of Germany, they have been always fair and kind from my experience.

[FutbolCrazy]

To my friend Sinan...

First off I don't know why you are attacking my 'Soccer knowledge Cred' so maliciously. But here are some answers to your questions.

1) I've followed Every World, Euro, Concacaf Cup since I've been around since I'm only 25 I can't remember them all. But I remember The US's 'great run' in 94 to get out of their group. I remember Baggio Choking over the bar, I remember the Turks getting Third in '02 and getting robbed by Brazil(now that was some bad officiating). I remember the Greeks winning it. I remember Galatasary winning the Champion's cup. I remember watching Pele's Anniversary game with Brazil. I can go on if you want.

2) Agreed. ESPN cater to the lowest common denominator.

3) I watch as many as possible usually around 3 unfortunately I have to pay more and take off weird hours to be able to see them live, but I manage. I've been coming to big soccer regularly for a couple years now. Just recently signed up.

4)I believe that is the 'Lock and Key' defense.

5)I'm actually not too familiar with it but I think it had something to do with match fixing. But honestly I don't really know that one.

How'd I do? To be honest it doesn't really matter I play much more then I watch about, five times a week. In fact I have a game in 2 hours and I have to walk my dog first. If this doesn't make you think that maybe a comment made by me might not be as easy to discount as 'He's an American he doesn't get it' then I can't convince you I guess which kind of sucks. I do find it a tad ironic that a Turkish fan would be writing off an American fan the same way most Turks complain that teams write off Turkey.

Bottom line is I respect your opinion the least you could do would be to respect mine.

O and I do believe this site was started by two Americans so maybe we aren't all that bad.

Wow -- you must some kind of soccer knowledge Pele or something....all bow to the sock.

[FutbolCrazy]

Why is it not surprising that soccer ... err football...err calcio....err fussball fans
love to go on about who "deserved" to win.

Got news for you -- no matter how much Euro-wuss crying you do -- the team that scores the most goals by the end of the match wins.

Germany 3 - Turkey 2.

Good night.

[Gandalf The Red]

Would like to thank Germany again:cool:

[TariboWest33]

Why is it not surprising that soccer ... err football...err calcio....err fussball fans
love to go on about who "deserved" to win.

Team which actually win, allways deserves to win....

http://vinovo.magnify.net/watch/playlist/CG6LZF55LGZ3K58J
Highlights from match Turkey - Germany

[1a Schnitzel]

jesus christ! Sinan take your emotions to the rivalry forum, will ya.

[squidward123]

I really read almost all messages, but could not notice comments like `rubbish` or `poor`. Thus I thought he was implying us. and answered,

We all understand I think each other, but dude if you say this was a game Germany played decent I dont want to imagine, when they play worse,
so good good luck in final (though I dont believe in luck, but if there is such a thing called luck, I wish it stands with you)

but really I understood your sentiment here, even a slight comment make you think people are trying to say bad thing to you. I read somewhere, or some German said to me how bad effect these movies about WW II had on Germany.

I really respect Germany, and I dont hate Germany, Das Boot, Stalingrad are two of my favourite movies, so guys please relax nobody in Turkey just watch a Hollywood movie and think German these way, and at least in Turkey they did not teach us to belittle a nation when discussing an opinion.

Did you see any negative comments by Turks here? I read most the Turkish forums, the worst thing they say are (the most fanatics) about Lahm`s and Germany unfair tactical fouls, and Metzelder playing theatre (when he was requesting from ref a second yellow to Semih). But did not see any here by any Turkish guy, maybe from others. Even Turkish claims are just personal, not a sentence involving `rubbish , poor Germany or Germans`. So please, just ignore them (who are not Turks and saying `rubbish` etc), or dont blame Turkish people. You guys sound like Turks are saying these things.

just take it easy, and have the fun, go to some bar to cheer or church to pray, thank to God, whatever, no need to approval from anybody, Germany is in final, history will record that.

It's all good. :cool: I wasn't talking about turks. I was talking about the comments from people from other countries in the last thread especially.

I think the private message you sent has settled that.

As for the game - I just watched the replay with the 25 minutes that were cut off due to feed problems included. So I saw the whole game for the first time.

The first half was actually even and both teams had 2 very good chances to score aside from the goals. Turkey had a lot more shots because they shot from everywhere but they were all harmless. Germany got into those good positions but they couldn't shoot or chose to pass to try and find a better position but got nowhere. Overall the first half was even. These reports saying turkey should have scored a couple more are incorrect because they are ignoring germany's 2 good chances.

Initially I thought the 2nd half was germany's but it was again even, with maybe turkey with a slight edge. Although the thing is turkey created almost zero chances of any sort until semih senturk scored, which is unlike the first half. Germany had more chances of some sort in this half.

So I agree, germany played worse than I initially thought (so it was less than "decent"), but they still coped with turkey's tactics well enough to actually win the game. Credit must go to turkey for playing a big part in germany playing that way.

It is encouraging for germany that we still won and I do expect a better display in the final.


lastly I didnt say people expect more from Germany, I just asked. In Turkey people always request more, try to improve, I thought similar for Germany. It was my wrong.No judgment here.

Oh ok, I understand this bit now.

Well as the german team isn't some great team as in the 70s I am happy with the play at the last WC and in the qualification since then. This Euro could have been smoother but still there were 2 good games. As long as we play well and win the final I'll be very happy. It doesn't have to be anything dominant.

[Gaboo]

The turks definitely played better than Germany! But if always the team, that plays better wins the game, Turkey wouldn´t have been in the semifinal at all!

I have a lot of respect for the Turkish team and their performance in this tournament, but don´t tell me, that they lost, because of all the players missing! With these players, this would have been a totally different game...maybe better for Turkey, but maybe Germany would have made a better performance as well! The past told us, that Germany doesn´t "overperform" by winning games, with three or four goals difference. Germany does what is necessary, to win a game...like they did yesterday! That doesn´t mean, that Germany could have switched to a better performance at any time in the game...all I want to say is, that, if Turkey would have played better with all the missing players, Germany might have improved, too!? It wasn´t a coincidence, that Germany scored the 1 - 1 just minutes after the 1 - 0! Just my opinion!
Anyhow, Turkey played better, kudos for that, but Germany stood up to Turkey and won, that´s football...

[forza_azzurri]

No comparison to Greece...the emphasis on the sport and the quality of play goes much deeper. WC qualifying will be another testament.

By bad ....I should never compare Turkey to Greece ...ON and OFF the pitch;)

[Lahmfan]

I dont understand whats the problem with some of you..
I read both threads and i came out with this conclusion:
1) we need to be thankful to our "poland" players ==> sure w/e i am not gona even argue about that... and people need to get over the FACT that these "poland" players are, in fact, German.
2) referee was in "our" side... i am still confused how this even possible after Lahm foul (but again sure, w/e i am not gona argue about that, because Germany doesn’t need a penalty kick to win a game :-) )
3) Germany was "lucky" for the late goal and didnt deserve the win.. (coming from turkey fans, its just make me smiles :-), specially after watching their last 3 games :)
4) Turkey played a better football yesterday, and i totally agree about that but they didnt deserve to go through
5) Turkey fans should never feel ashamed about their performance yesterday as they put up a wonderful game!

Congrat for Germany and congrat to their young hungry players!

[cuyseco]

I read different news papers from different countries, and I agree with all of them..."Turkey played better than Germany" only Germans think the opposite.
Turkey have showed the world that they are a team with EGGS and they were not afraid of Germany even they did not have all the players.
If Russia defeat Spain today, I doubt that Germany will be champion.

[Martininho]

A few comments:

Turkey v. Greece - Greece won Euro through defensive resolve and determination. One could say the gods were on their side as well ;), but they had a strategy that recognized their limitations, played to their strength, and got maximum results. It may not have been beautiful to watch, but it was beautiful to see an underdog team claim the prize, and nobody can say they didn't earn it. Even if you don't like defensive football (and a well-played defensive game isn't without merit, as Spain/Italy showed), you have to respect a team that can select that strategy and make it work, because the players know it will be 90+ minutes of physical and mental agony, with no room for mistakes.

Turkey, this tournament? Different style, same heart and determination. A more attacking style, so they'll get better reviews than the Greeks did. And, of course, the late comebacks make for great drama and deservedly attract praise.

Someone explained earlier the drop-off of Turkey after the 2002 WC, and it makes sense. Based on Fenerbache's performance in the Champions' League, and Turkey's at Euro '08, I believe the Turkish fans' belief that their team is moving up is well-founded. They can also be their own worst enemies, when the results don't meet the expectations (notwithstanding that the expectations may not be realistic...and certainly, they have lots of company in that department, including my country's national team...USA).

Germany? Germany did not play their best match today, certainly. What I did NOT see, however, was any sign of panic by the Germans. They came into this match believing that they would win, and didn't fall apart even though Turkey put them on their heels early, and got a late equalizer. The difference here, is that Turkey were in new territory, never having reached the Euro semi-finals before and, by the admission of their own players, having exceeded their expectations. Accordingly, Turkey could have been forgiven for coming out and playing defensively, or without ambition. They did neither, and it caught Germany off-guard.

Germany, on the other hand, has a tradition of expectation, not hope, of victory. For the younger fans here, the relative lack of success by Germany over the past decade is something new. I would suggest that fans of Germany were so accustomed to dominance, that anything less than reaching a final represented a huge drop-off (and I've followed the Mannschaft since 1972). To be honest, it was a drop-off...but ONLY by the standards of a Germany or Brazil.

Germany went from 1954-1990 and, save for 1958, appeared in EVERY World Cup final hosted in Europe ('54, '66, '74, '82, '90), and have made the final in two more WC hosted outside of Europe ('86, '02). Only twice in that 36-year period did they fail to make the semi-finals.

As of this Sunday, they will now have appeared in 6 of the 13 European Championship finals. I've heard a lot about Germany's "drop-off", having gone through the prior two European Championships winless...so what? You can talk about Italy, but tracking back to the post-WWII era, only Brazil is in the same league.

There is no shame to Turkey for not winning the semi-final, most expected them to be run off the pitch; neither is there reason to bash the German team...they remained calm...they adjusted strategy and tactics through the tournament as needed...they won...it's what they DO.

I must also confess, as I consoled my friend (who was born in Istanbul) after the match...I have been angry at Germany before ('82 over the shameful Austrian episode, and livid at Shumacher), but yesterday was the first time I can remember feeling sad that Germany won. Now, that's a change!

Finally, it's a pleasure to read about German and Turkish fans celebrating before and after the match, because that means that football was the big winner yesterday, as it has been throughout Euro '08. That's as it should be, an appreciation for the quality we've witnessed throughout.

Cheers.

[0-Point]

Lahm Chops Turkey

[Lahmfan]

I read different news papers from different countries, and I agree with all of them..."Turkey played better than Germany" only Germans think the opposite.
.
This post coming after mine is something to laugh about :o

[cuyseco]

This post coming after mine is something to laugh about :o

Do not laugh much, because I will laugh more on Sunday :D

[Lahmfan]

Do not laugh much, because I will laugh more on Sunday :D
Good for you!
laughing is good.. proved by doctors (no, not kidding):o