Italia

[Leopejo]

Don't know what match you were watching... In the one I was there was a just PK (clear handball) and a good decision (the goalie clearly went for the ball). I don't think they could have tied.
Strange, I saw the ball touching the body, not the arm. And it has no relevance where the goalie went. He took Giovinco down. I am pretty confident this Italy would have tied if they wanted. Sure, Cameroon was a much stronger opponent than Honduras and South Corea. The Italian players aknowledged that too.

The red card was harsh, but an ok decision.
I hope Cameroon plays soccer in the quarterfinals. There are other sports in the Olympics too if they prefer fighting.

No way possibly was Cameroon not the better side. But in a game where no one really cared what difference does it make? A tie was good for both sides so no one really played up to full potential. With one man down Cameroon stopped rtrying to win and they could be only one scoreline.
Good luck to Cameroon, but calling it the best side? You are entitled to your opinion, certainly.

[robii]

:) Hillarious game, very funny !
I dont believe they even called each other before the game, only just nodded and agreed to a 0-0 before even kick-off . :)
I dont think Cameroonian fans should think though that thye could have won
against Italy. Italy could have won if they wanted to, it was clear.., but both sides did the right thing for themselves though.
I think the only team that might beat Italy in this tournament is Argnetina.
Bad refs in this tournament, that didnt seem like a penalty, also that was not a red card on Cameroon. I remember Belgium - Brazil, Belgians got punished by 2 ridiculous red cards.
Few refs are good, some are very bad !

[robii]

Italy are underdogs only to Argentina in this tournament, and the best African side I believe is Ivory Coast. Brazil where disapointing against Belgium and u cant really consider China or New Zeland oponents.
As a Milan fan I am concerned, because Dinho and Pato have not played well, and again it looks like the only good Brazilian for us will be KAKA !

[Maruti]

Ok. Sorry for being overly aggressive.

I still didn't see the Cameroonian goalkeeper chasing anyone down...

But on the Cameroon / Italy match... neither team was better, cuz basically neither played at all for most of the match... It was such a dreary match that saying that one side controlled anything is just plain stupid. Stating ANYTHING on the basis of this match is just plain stupid.

I just don't understand the Italians acting like they are favourites to win... Going into the Olympics the favourites to football commentators were Brasil, Argentina and then Nigeria and Holland. Italy were coming in with a strong team, but they were not favourites, as they have never had a successful youth team. They excel at senior level.

Bbtw: it was VCFan that started this whole discussion as far as I'm concerned which idiotic comments like:
- "Italy has avoided meeting a really good team until the final itself."
- "I think Cameroon only stayed in the game with their fouling."

[Maruti]

What? We easily beat them(Ivory Coast) with a lesser talented squad. FACT.

FACTS
a) You didn't beat Ivory Coast at Toulon easily.

b) The Toulon team for Ivory Coast was the u23 B team, whilst the Italy team is similar.

FACTS:
ITALY: From the 18 players in the Olympic squad 11 played at the Toulon tournament. Most of them first team Olympic players, only 3 being subs.

IVORY COAST: From the 18 players in the Olympic squad 9 played at the Toulon tournment, of which 4 are subs. Neither Kalou nor Gervinho played.

[Leopejo]

Ok. Sorry for being overly aggressive.

I still didn't see the Cameroonian goalkeeper chasing anyone down...

But on the Cameroon / Italy match... neither team was better, cuz basically neither played at all for most of the match... It was such a dreary match that saying that one side controlled anything is just plain stupid. Stating ANYTHING on the basis of this match is just plain stupid.
Exactly right on the point. Which also includes:
(Insert team here) evidently the better side in the game. They didn't need to win, but almost did.;)

I just don't understand the Italians acting like they are favourites to win... Going into the Olympics the favourites to football commentators were Brasil, Argentina and then Nigeria and Holland. Italy were coming in with a strong team, but they were not favourites, as they have never had a successful youth team. They excel at senior level.Maybe in this forum, but Italy never was considered on par with Brazil and Argentina. After those two there are a few teams battling for the bronze medal - or silver given the probable Argentina vs Brazil semifinal. I'm not saying Italy will medal, but they certainly have the possibility, as does Nigeria (and Belgium and even Netherlands if they pull a surprise). And even gold has to be won on the pitch.

Sorry to be harsh, but saying that Italy never had a succesful youth team is just plainly wrong. The main Youth competition for European countries is not FIFA U-20 WC but UEFA U-21 EC. Italy has won it 5 times starting from 1990, no other team winning it more than twice.

Bbtw: it was VCFan that started this whole discussion as far as I'm concerned which idiotic comments like:
- "Italy has avoided meeting a really good team until the final itself."
- "I think Cameroon only stayed in the game with their fouling."I think VCFan just commented on Italy (and Nigeria and Ivory Coast) avoiding one of the Big Two, Brazil and Argentina. His second sentence is a bit harsh, as you said we don't know what would have happened. Italian players aknowledged Cameroon to be their strongest opponent until now. Let's hope both teams meet in either final and play a real game.

[Leopejo]

FACTS
a) You didn't beat Ivory Coast at Toulon easily.

b) The Toulon team for Ivory Coast was the u23 B team, whilst the Italy team is similar.

FACTS:
ITALY: From the 18 players in the Olympic squad 11 played at the Toulon tournament. Most of them first team Olympic players, only 3 being subs.

IVORY COAST: From the 18 players in the Olympic squad 9 played at the Toulon tournment, of which 4 are subs. Neither Kalou nor Gervinho played.
Right. Besides, Toulon was just a pre-Olympic series of friendlies. You can't take it as an indicator of Olympic success at all.

[sardus_pater]

Italy were coming in with a strong team, but they were not favourites, as they have never had a successful youth team.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/under21/history/index.html

* 2006 - 2007 Netherlands
* 2004 - 2006 Netherlands
* 2002 - 2004 Italy
* 2000 - 2002 Czech Republic
* 1998 - 2000 Italy
* 1996 - 1998 Spain
* 1994 - 1996 Italy
* 1992 - 1994 Italy
* 1990 - 1992 Italy
* 1988 - 1990 USSR
* 1986 - 1988 France
* 1984 - 1986 Spain
* 1982 - 1984 England
* 1980 - 1982 England
* 1978 - 1980 USSR
* 1976 - 1978 Serbia

we are less succesful in u17 and u19 but that's typical of italian calcio. youngsters usually take more time to develop than in other football schools.
Rarely more than 4-5 players of the entire u19 NT roster make it to the u21.

we still won the u-19 EC in 2003 and we lost the final to germany less than a month ago.

said this, of course we are not favorites in the olympics, Brazil and Argentina are.
we know we have quality in our team but that's not a guarantee of success nor to get a medal considering the strong opposition with stellar overages (we have none) and the fact that the ball is always round. On quality alone we were probably the better team in the last u21 EC but we still failed.

[Maruti]

I think that the decision to allow overage players play at the Olympics slightly destroyed the games. Teams like Holland, Cameroon, Ivory Coast that basically decided to field a u23 team have to compete with a Brasil side with Ronaldinho and a Argentine side with Riquelme. Well Italy has Rocchi, but he hasn't been as influential, whilst the Bebbe for Cameroon might as well be a u23 player...

For me it sort of destroys the reality of the competition.

Just a few words on Cameroon: So far I have been very dissapointed by them. Especially Song is nowhere as influential a player as at the African Cup of Nations. I guess that's what happen when you take 14 defensive players...

[Maruti]

Touche on the Italy u21 tournament.
Still Olympics and World Cup they have been anonymous for a long time.

Still I think that any team has a shout for the medals now, but I would rank Cameroon as the outsiders and Belgium as not favoured to make it further. Other than that anything is possible.

I especially think that we wiill be in for a exciting Argentine-Holland match.

[mattteo]

In olympics we won the bronze 4 years ago, and have taken part in every olympic football tournament for the last 20 years (only European country to do that).

No one in Italy gives a ******** about the U-20 world cup.

Btw, you say the Toulon tournament isn't relevant since the rosters were different compared to the olympics....but then you use, as a mean of comparison, last year's U-21 Euro results (which rosters, compared to the Olympics, differ even more).

Fai pace col cervello.

[Maruti]

In olympics we won the bronze 4 years ago, and have taken part in every olympic football tournament since 1980 (only European country to do that)

No one in Italy gives a ******** about the U-20 world cup.

Wow... One bronze in 24 years of Olympic play! YOU RULE! Must I add Italy made it out of the group only thanks to a having scored one more goal than Ghana and won with Mali in the 1/8 in the 116 minute of extra time? Thats all I have to say about Italy dominance over African teams at Olympic level.

I guess that must means you are world beaters at the Olympics!

What's with the language dude? Chill.

[sardus_pater]

I think that the decision to allow overage players play at the Olympics slightly destroyed the games. Teams like Holland, Cameroon, Ivory Coast that basically decided to field a u23 team have to compete with a Brasil side with Ronaldinho and a Argentine side with Riquelme. Well Italy has Rocchi, but he hasn't been as influential, whilst the Bebbe for Cameroon might as well be a u23 player...

Rocchi is out. injured.

Italy is basically the U21 team with some heavyweight U23 (Montolivo, Nocerino)

For me it sort of destroys the reality of the competition.

agree. it should be u23 alone, no overages. Brazil and Argentina would still be amongst the favorites as they surely don't lack young talent.

Just a few words on Cameroon: So far I have been very dissapointed by them. Especially Song is nowhere as influential a player as at the African Cup of Nations. I guess that's what happen when you take 14 defensive players...

I liked Song's work in midfield and Cameroon looked solid and skilled.

[Leopejo]

Touche on the Italy u21 tournament.
Still Olympics and World Cup they have been anonymous for a long time.
I'm not saying anything about the Olympics, but hmm, their results are not so meaningful, just my opinion.

Regarding U-20 WC, it is that Europeans have a different structure for Youth National Teams. Their one important team is the U-21 team, with a two year EC qualification and EC cycle. Even their friendlies are shown on TV.

U-20 teams don't exist, instead the next step is the U-19 team. Italy reached the U-19 EC final a few weeks ago, but it was more the known Serie A-players (Paloschi, Forestieri) that drew some attention than the result. U-19 EC acts as a qualifier for U-20 WC, for which an ad hoc team will be created next year.

In Europe U-21 is the big deal, not U-20. Calling Austria a strong Youth team because they reached U-20 WC semis last year is premature. If they qualify for next year's U-21 EC and have good result there, then they are a good Youth team.

[Maruti]

Btw, you say the Toulon tournament isn't relevant since the rosters were different compared to the olympics....but then you use, as a mean of comparison, last year's U-21 Euro results (which rosters, compared to the Olympics, differ even more).

a) I didn't bring up Toulon. You guys did.

b) 10 players from the u21 squad in 2007 plays at the Olympics... so... essentially your incorrect.

[Leopejo]

Rocchi is out. injured.

Italy is basically the U21 team with some heavyweight U23 (Montolivo, Nocerino)
Italy is basically the two latest U-21 teams, with some players having become overage (Aquilani and Pazzini vs. Montolivo and Nocerino).



agree. it should be u23 alone, no overages. Brazil and Argentina would still be amongst the favorites as they surely don't lack young talent.
It's a matter between FIFA and CIO. At least they should keep all the U-23s! As good a news it is for Italy, Kompany being called to Europe (and some Serbians as well) is just bad.

[Leopejo]

a) I didn't bring up Toulon. You guys did.

b) 10 players from the u21 squad in 2007 plays at the Olympics... so... essentially your incorrect.
U-21 EC is definitely much more relevant than the Toulon tournament.

[sardus_pater]

No one in Italy gives a ******** about the U-20 world cup.


but that's also because of the poor results and the lack of coverage on tv.

It's also true though that the poor results are due to the italian federation viewing the u-20 team as a sort of experimental b-side of u21's rejects and nothing more. And also... u20s are usually made of players of the youth championship (primavera), while the u21 is made of young players who are already playing pro soccer.

hell, the u19 NT made it to the final and the national tv totally ignored them.

Hopefully this will change. I think the italian federation should give more importance to the u20 wc. italians viewers will follow. as it is now it's like you said, most of the fans don't even know it exists a U20 world cup.

p.s. Lo so che queste cose le sai Matteo. è per rendere edotti quelli che non conoscono la situazione.

[Maruti]

I think the one place that Africans really have excelled at all level is destructive play in midfield, where they are arguably the best in the world (must I remind you of i.e. the Ivory Coast and Ghana senior sides). The Cameroon team was built based on a very destructive midfield, which might be one way to keep the Brasilians at bay (by not allow them to play there game).

Ivory Coast played as equals with Argentine by destroying the midfield play of Argentina. I guess Cameroon will probably do the same, but I'm not convinced by the attacking capabilities of the squad.

[Leopejo]

but that's also because of the poor results and the lack of coverage on tv.
From the layman's point of view perhaps, but you can't compare Casiraghi's team to Rocca's one.

It's also true though that the poor results are due to the italian federation viewing the u-20 team as a sort of experimental b-side of u21's rejects and nothing more.
More like an extension of the previous year's U-19 squad.