Germany - Portugal [R]

[CanadaFTW]

Just wondering about the Ballack goal (Germany's 3rd goal). He gives a slight push to the defender before heading the ball in. It looked like it could have been called, but it was still pretty minor. Had the roles been reversed it would have been an incredibly harsh penalty.

No video, hopefully someone can post it.

[code1390]

Video

http://www.d1g.com/video/show/?id=2061065

[refereejoe]

It was a very slight push, and I don't think it really changed the outcome. The Portugal player is a bit shorter and most likely could not challenge for the ball or affect Ballack's ability to put it in the net. That being said, it still was a definite push, and one I might consider to be just a wee bit above "trifling." Not sure if I would call it or not -- good thing I didn't have to make that decision :)

[ctreferee]

no way i would call that.

[MassachusettsRef]

no way i would call that.Odd. No way--if I see it properly--I don't.

To me, it's an obvious two-handed shove. The ball lands right where the Portuguese player would have been if he didn't lose his balance.

[Ref Flunkie]

Odd. No way--if I see it properly--I don't.

To be, it's an obvious two-handed shove. The ball lands right where the Portuguese player would have been if he didn't lose his balance.

Agreed...I see that, I blow the whistle.

[blech]

clear push, if he sees it.
understandable to me that he may not have seen it as it was a very brief amount of contact (just the professional amount needed to clear him out), but i call it if i see it.

[CanadaFTW]

Odd. No way--if I see it properly--I don't.

To be, it's an obvious two-handed shove. The ball lands right where the Portuguese player would have been if he didn't lose his balance.

Would you call it on a defender doing that to a forward?

[MassachusettsRef]

Would you call it on a defender doing that to a forward?Absolutely. It's a two-handed shove away from the body that causes the recipient to be in a different place than he wanted to be.

And Lord knows I'm opening up a can of worms here, but... a good attacker is going to go down under that sort of challenge. Once he realizes the shove is going to give him no chance to head the ball, he has no desire to stay up (while a defender isn't going to rely on the whistle and will try to stay up). Visually speaking, it would be pretty simple to call.

Now, if the attacker doesn't go down? You're absolutely right that it is a very difficult call to sell. But yes, I would call it. And I think that the crackdown on clutching and grabbing in the penalty area is the justification for calling this. If we're calling holding tightly in the penalty area on set pieces, surely we should be calling blatant (and, though the physical severity of this might be debatable, the actual push is blatant) pushing as well.

[todler]

would anyone else have given a red for the sholder check by Pepe at 60 min?


I would for the following reasons. My first thought was red when I saw it. Pepe left his feet, shoulder into Klose cheek, and most important for me - his eyes never left Klose's head. He was lineing him up IMO.


And I wish Andy would shut up about the refs for 1 game. That's all he's complained about in EVERY game. FFS, Andy, you don't like ref's we get it. now give it a rest.

[Iforgotwhat8wasfor]

Would you call it on a defender doing that to a forward?

The problem is, it is very unlikely a defender would be doing that to a forward. The defender would try to get inside position and go up first and high to head the ball back up and out - just like Ferreira attempted. If he was caught behind the attacker, he would try to go up first and over, with just enough contact to spoil the attacker's chances. So it just wouldn't look the same.

When I saw it on TV, I thought it was a small, one-handed push that just happened to catch Ferreira as he started up, but yikes! a good look and while you have to take the whole game into consideration, and I only saw part of it...I think the CR missed one...

[refereejoe]

Honestly, the opinion I had in real time when I first saw the play was that Ferreira actually misread the incoming ball. He didn't seem to track it well and was headed slightly in the direction that Ballack nudged him to begin with. I'm not convinced that the outcome would be any different without the slight push-off. Ferreira might have distracted Ballack a bit in actually jumping up for a play, but to me it looks like he would have been late on his jump anyway and given Ballack the upper hand (plus, he's shorter). For a player of Ballack's caliber, I doubt the interference would prevent him from scoring at that point.

I point this out because you don't get the same feeling in watching the replay. I've learned to trust my gut during quick sequences like this, and my gut didn't scream out "Foul!" at the time. I think that is the biggest reason why I'm hesitant to go with the crowd on this one, which I realize is not necessarily the best logic :)

[Alberto]

Odd. No way--if I see it properly--I don't.

To me, it's an obvious two-handed shove. The ball lands right where the Portuguese player would have been if he didn't lose his balance.

Yep, Ballack fouled the Portuguese player. Subtle push from distance. In slow-mo and close up, quite obvious.

[whistleblowerusa]

Boy, some of you ought to try out for the announcing position :^)
Remember at what speed this is in real time, where the officials are and how fast this ball is coming in. It's always easy afterward to analyze and say what should have and shouldn't have ben called. It was a slight push. the defender doesn't even react to it. Why would the referee???

[Ref Flunkie]

Boy, some of you ought to try out for the announcing position :^)
Remember at what speed this is in real time, where the officials are and how fast this ball is coming in. It's always easy afterward to analyze and say what should have and shouldn't have ben called. It was a slight push. the defender doesn't even react to it. Why would the referee???

Believe me, I don't blame the referee for "missing" it for the exact reasons you are stating. I think what we are saying is that if we have the benefit of the replay that clearly shows the push and how it effects the play, that we would call it. At least, that is what I am saying.

[refontherun]

Odd. No way--if I see it properly--I don't.

To me, it's an obvious two-handed shove. The ball lands right where the Portuguese player would have been if he didn't lose his balance.

Upon replay scutiny, that was my take exactly. I could understand why the ref team couldn't catch it as well.

[Rufusabc]

Even better, the two of them are teammates!

In real time, I thought it was a good goal, and upon further review it's a foul. But, from a positioning standpoint, there is hardly anyway the referee is going to see that subtle push becasue it appears the defender (as many have said here) misjudges the ball when in reality he misjudges it becasue he was pushed. Credit Ballack for knowing how to score, and get away with the foul.

Does anyone blame the AR for missing it too?

R

[ref47]

change this slightly. ballack is defending at midfield. ferreira goes up for a header on a goal kick from his keeper. ballack applies the slight push and the header is missed. you are standing where you can see between the players. do you call the foul on ballack?

anyone who said, no can return to class.

IF you see it you need to call it - IF.

[NHRef]

AR won't see this, he would probably be pretty much looking right at Ballack's back and wouldn't see the push without x-ray vision.

CR MAYBE would see this, there's alot of people to watch there and he'd have to predict where the ball is coming down to key in on the right set of people.

The push looked slight, but it moved the defender off his path to the ball and left Ballack in the clear.

[Alberto]

Upon replay scutiny, that was my take exactly. I could understand why the ref team couldn't catch it as well.


Easy to understand it was missed if you watch and analyze the replay. Note the position of the referee, there were probably 7-8 players in the diagonal line between the referee and Ballack. I bet his vision was screened much like the AR was shielded by Ballack's body, so he probably did not see the push.