Netherlands vs Russia Quarterfinal- Euro, 2008 [R]

[mrsinister]

Motto for this quarterfinals should be "playing good football backfires". All the good teams are being kicked out!

"All the over-hyped choker teams are being kicked out! Heleluya!" There I fixed it for you.

[AFCA]

It takes a Dutchy to beat a Dutchy I guess ;)

Congrats to Russia... We played poor, but it does not discredit the Russian win. Fully deserved and a lesson in humility for our boys.

And of course, much respect to Guus Hiddink. The man is the one remaining god in football. I wish him and Russia the highest reward, and I think they can pull it off.

[soccermoms2]

Fitness is important, but let's be absolutely clear about this - Russia were the much better footballing side so had both fitness and skill with them.

Also to people remembering the Spain game, Russia weren't all that bad then either. They struggled defensively obviously but to say they played like amateurs is ridiculous. They went forward well and their passing was as crisp as ever even without their playmaker. They just (I say just...) didn't deal with the Spanish movement in the final third of the pitch.

Unfortunately unless Russia learn to mark then they will stumble once again against Spain. If they're still struggling to pick up players at set pieces then how are they going to deal with picking up the runs of Villa and Torres for 90 minutes?

Another worrisome thing is that Spain has a tendency to choke like the Dutch. They've consistently underachieved and unless they break the cycle, they will fall against a Hiddink led team with momentum. Hiddink knows their defensive weaknesses and will take advantage of it.

Besides, they still have to get past Italy...another upset in the making if they don't have a unified focus. Their advantage is their pace and their youth against a kind of aging Italy.

[AFCA]

Russia was almost impossible to defend tonight, although I'd give a team like Italy a decent chance. NL got suckered, which is something I think many people were waiting for... Can't keep luck on your side all the time.

Dammit... Can't help but think that this was unnecesary (sp?) and a waste of good alcohol. I had two hot chicks at home, but this didn't help. J'accuse! :(

[billgrant88]

I think they can pull it off.I'm not too sure. Russia have been comfortable, well sort of, against the likes of Sweden, the Dutch and Greece because none had as much mobility up front as Spain.

From what I saw of the Netherlands in this tournament (I didn't watch the Romania game) I noticed they relied on attacking on the break or converting from set pieces. Ruud had been very good as had Kuyt but they offered nothing of the threats that the Spanish attacks did in that first game. Spain could rely on the movement and pace of the front 2 and the passing ability of the likes of Xavi and Iniesta. Spain didn't need to throw the fullbacks forward to create chances as they had enough creativity in midfield to stretch Russia. That also meant Russia, although appearing dangerous never had the extra man on as many occasions as they did against you.

Spain had 20 shots to Russia's 13, it was a very open game. The difference was Russia couldn't find the space in the Spanish half as much as they would have liked. Spain only seemed to play with one real winger, who was on the left, which is probably why Ramos was as far forward on the right as he was. Actually I think the stats showed out of all the Spanish players Ramos put in the most tackles, so perhaps he was stopping Zhirkov further up the pitch to nullify his attacking threat.

If Hiddink pulls this one off he is a genius.

(please note most of that post is probably gibberish. I'm only posting to delay the commencement of my cardio session ;) )

[Khaloisha]

Spain had 20 shots to Russia's 13, it was a very open game. The difference was Russia couldn't find the space in the Spanish half as much as they would have liked. Spain only seemed to play with one real winger, who was on the left, which is probably why Ramos was as far forward on the right as he was. Actually I think the stats showed out of all the Spanish players Ramos put in the most tackles, so perhaps he was stopping Zhirkov further up the pitch to nullify his attacking threat.

There weren't Arshavin, and with him on the field would had been another match.

[Alberto]

The former top referee Urs Meier from Switzerland said on German tv that the referee had to show the yellow-red card to the player even if the ball was out before.

Yes, I don't know if I was clear in my earlier postings, but for the sake of clarity I want to reiterate the following:

1. Even if the ball was out of play, over the goal line for a goal kick, Kolodin the Russian player could be judged to have committed an action (not a foul, since you cannot foul when the ball is out of play or before the restart of play) which could result in a caution or send off.

2. A referee can rescind a caution or send off acting on advise of his AR or on his own, but only prior to the restart of play.

I have a ton of questions on this incident.

1. Why didn't Michel observe proper mechanics and look back to his AR to see he raised his flag while the ball was on the goal line or immediately thereafter?

2. What happened with the communication device? Did it not work? Is that why he ran over to the AR?

3. Why so quick to issue the caution?

4. Did the AR advise on the foul or non-foul from that distance?

5. Why show the card and then rescind it?

6. Did he rescind the caution on advise from the AR, or because he saw the player already had a caution? It would drive my crazy to think he rescinded the caution on seeing the player already had a caution. That would be a completely bush league decision.

[Alberto]

Good refs consult their ARs when they're in doubt. Bad refs just go ahead with the call and don't consult with their ARs no matter the situation.

So are you agreeing with me that Michel should have consulted earlier prior to pulling the card or you have no issue that he created confusion with rescinding the caution and send off of Kolodin?

[ViscaBarca]

not sure whether it was already pointed out or not, but the russians certainly have an advantage in that they are mid-season. their spring-autumn season gives their clubs a disadvantage in european club football, but in tournaments like these they should be fitter than anyone else. and now that russian clubs can affort to keep their best talent..

[de Berenboot]

It looked like a qualification match, so horrible it was from the dutch side. The Russians deserved to win. If we didnt have Van der Sar on goal, but Timmer or Stekelenburg, it could have been 0-5 (normal time).

[pippomo]

well, I think even Italians would think Hiddink can most definitly out coach Donadoni.
He does. As he outcoaches manies. The only problem I've got with the guy is that he is a true liar. he wins or compete as a true "realist", "cynical" coach, which I like but depict himself as a kind of messiah of football, which i dislike, as there is not such thing as a messiah. Great tactician. The Australian catenaccio one man up in wc 2006 ( 1 shot in 35 minutes of one man advantage against 4-5 great chances at goal ) was a great proof of no non-sense football. As was korean match in 2002 when they just ran, ran, ran and waited for things to happen, helped by some somewhat friendly refereeings. When he had a good ( not formidable ) dutch team he was able to play an attacking football. Simply a great coach, a pity his ego is somewhat oversized.

[NickyViola]

not sure whether it was already pointed out or not, but the russians certainly have an advantage in that they are mid-season. their spring-autumn season gives their clubs a disadvantage in european club football, but in tournaments like these they should be fitter than anyone else. and now that russian clubs can affort to keep their best talent..

Absolutely right.

[imasyko]

So are you agreeing with me that Michel should have consulted earlier prior to pulling the card or you have no issue that he created confusion with rescinding the caution and send off of Kolodin?

One point being missed in this discussion - the ball never appeared to be out of play, and there was a foul committed (though it did not deserve a yellow).

The ref didn't 'correct' the situation by calling the ball out and rescinding the card, he took a scoring opportunity away from the Dutch. And Russia were poor throughout the game defending set pieces.

While I agree that the fould in no way deserved a card, I have to wonder how could the AR see that the ball was over the line from way over there? Bizarre call and actions by an otherwise good ref. (Though I question not giving a penalty against the Dutch later on - that dope Tommy Smith couldn't even see on replay that Heitinga stepped on the Russian's foot and tripped him)

[Nebs]

The Italian commentators are wrong. No penalty there.

Sorry for late post, but I'm just now reading the thread. Anyway, I was agreeing with pretty much every post from you. Michel is a great ref, but that was a clear penalty, and the fact that he didn't call it, will cost him a place in finale. Final result of 3-1 will "stop" the fans of questioning much that non call, but refs commission or whatever is it called will go over it, no doubt about it.

He's still great, one of the best refs at the moment.

[elbp]

What an excellent team performance from the Russians. They looked in control even when they were getting tired near the end of the match. And that guy Arshavin was a nightmare for the Netherlands. I've seen very little of him but he can definitely make a team play. At one point, I thought Russia would pay dearly for their missed chances, but fortunately the best team won and it will be interesting to see how they fare against Italy/Spain.

[Dutchspursfan]

Sorry for late post, but I'm just now reading the thread. Anyway, I was agreeing with pretty much every post from you. Michel is a great ref, but that was a clear penalty, and the fact that he didn't call it, will cost him a place in finale. Final result of 3-1 will "stop" the fans of questioning much that non call, but refs commission or whatever is it called will go over it, no doubt about it.

He's still great, one of the best refs at the moment.

What about the red card he withdrew? The ball clearly didnt cross the line so the russian guy should have been send of. That was at 1-1, so extra time would surely have been a lot different with 10 russians against 11 dutchman.

I cant have any complains about the russian win, because they deserved it fully, but this was a very costly error in my opinion.

[NickyViola]

I cant have any complains about the russian win, because they deserved it fully, but this was a very costly error in my opinion.

The error was carding him in the first place. It was really weird how the whole thing went down, though.

[Nebs]

What about the red card he withdrew? The ball clearly didnt cross the line so the russian guy should have been send of. That was at 1-1, so extra time would surely have been a lot different with 10 russians against 11 dutchman.

Michel there should be only at fault for initially calling the faul for second yellow -- which appears to me, and many others that there was no faul, especially for a yellow -- not for listening for assistant. He should be commended for listening actually. As for ball being out or not, that really isn't Michel's fault, but assistants.

Michel was pretty good yesterday, but with that one big blunder, uncalled penalty, which will soon be forgotten by many thanks to favorable result Russians got.

[braine]

[QUOTE=Dutchspursfan;14965619]What about the red card he withdrew? The ball clearly didnt cross the line so the russian guy should have been send of. That was at 1-1, so extra time would surely have been a lot different with 10 russians against 11 dutchman.

Even when the ball was out he can't withdrawn the yellow card,that was an huge error IMO.
BTW: the ball wasn't out and it wasn't a fault,Kolodnin didnt even touched Sneijder !

[braine]

[QUOTE=Dutchspursfan;14965619]What about the red card he withdrew? The ball clearly didnt cross the line so the russian guy should have been send of. That was at 1-1, so extra time would surely have been a lot different with 10 russians against 11 dutchman.

pppp