View Full Version : Rus:swe [r]
MassachusettsRef
18 Jun 2008, 04:10 PM
Andy Gray finally got one right. Sweden got lucky. No red card--not even a foul--for what was a pretty clear DOGSO. The Russian player, unfortunately, didn't help himself by fighting through the challenge so hard. No way De Bleeckere could have seen it from his angle and distance, but maybe it was something the AR could have helped with? Not sure. And unfortunately I doubt we'll see more replays, given the score line.
GOOOOAL!!
18 Jun 2008, 04:40 PM
IMO that play would have been a lot harder to sell as a foul than say the Italy France call. If the Russian goes down, he would have forced the R to make a decision. But that just goes to show that if a player believes they can score on their own, they will stay up and give it a shot.
All of the contact was upper body and was very tight to the players body. No jerseys were pulled away from the body or were arms extended to grab a hold of the opponent. I believe the ref got that one right by judging the contact as trifling.
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The much debated "France - Netherlands player off the field no OS decision" had one of variations just happen in this game.
The Russian (attacker) gets the ball near the goal line, crosses it and his momentum takes him off the field. The ball is headed back his way and he pauses, thinks about it for a split second and then decides to come back on the field and play the ball. The 2RD was about 5 yards up the field. The AR correctly flags OS and all is good in the world.
MassachusettsRef
18 Jun 2008, 04:43 PM
IMO that play would have been a lot harder to sell as a foul than say the Italy France call. If the Russian goes down, he would have forced the R to make a decision. But that just goes to show that if a player believes they can score on their own, they will stay up and give it a shot.
All of the contact was upper body and was very tight to the players body. No jerseys were pulled away from the body or were arms extended to grab a hold of the opponent. I believe the ref got that one right by judging the contact as trifling. Though I agree it was much tougher to sell, I disagree with the part I bolded. While there was no shirt-pull, he certainly grabbed hold of him. Maybe the arm wasn't "extended" (making it harder for the AR to help) but he certain grabbed him and pulled him back--twice, I believe.
The much debated "France - Netherlands player off the field no OS decision" had one of variations just happen in this game.
The Russian (attacker) gets the ball near the goal line, crosses it and his momentum takes him off the field. The ball is headed back his way and he pauses, thinks about it for a split second and then decides to come back on the field and play the ball. The 2RD was about 5 yards up the field. The AR correctly flags OS and all is good in the world.Right. Of course, if he didn't step back on the field the ball was going to go out of bounds anyway, so it was worth a shot.
PVancouver
18 Jun 2008, 05:05 PM
Could y'all post the times in the match when these plays occurred?
Thanks.
rippingood
18 Jun 2008, 07:44 PM
The initial situation (~ breakaway, no foul called) happened at about 65:45.
rippingood
18 Jun 2008, 07:56 PM
and the offside call was at 79:38.
I rememebered the "foul" time to go back to later and I recalled the offside happened after that so I just went back to espn360 and watched for a few minutes. Russia was very impressive - all over Sweden. Both goals were nice examples of teamwork - and in bioth cases, the eventual scorer had options to pass if the Sweden defense would have put up any kind of a challenge. Ibrahimovic looked old, slow, whiny and tired.
CanadaFTW
18 Jun 2008, 08:44 PM
I don't think the referees do themselves any favours when they don't call fouls on players who don't dive. This play was a clear foul, the defender (and last man back) reaches over the should and pulls the Russian back to get to the ball first.
Another play was Rud van Nistelrooy vs Italy when Buffon clips him. Ruud stays on his feet and gets to the ball just before it goes out. If he dives, he probably gets a PK, as it was, he was clearly knocked off balance by the keeper on a breakaway, a clear foul, yet again, no call. I hate seeing diving get rewarded, yet I continuously see players staying on their feet get punished.
Ref Flunkie
18 Jun 2008, 08:53 PM
I don't think the referees do themselves any favours when they don't call fouls on players who don't dive. This play was a clear foul, the defender (and last man back) reaches over the should and pulls the Russian back to get to the ball first.
Another play was Rud van Nistelrooy vs Italy when Buffon clips him. Ruud stays on his feet and gets to the ball just before it goes out. If he dives, he probably gets a PK, as it was, he was clearly knocked off balance by the keeper on a breakaway, a clear foul, yet again, no call. I hate seeing diving get rewarded, yet I continuously see players staying on their feet get punished.
It isn't a dive if there is an actual foul there. The problem is, if you call the foul while the player is still up, and in the next second the player scores, then you look like a real idiot. If the player gets a reasonable shot on goal after the initial "foul", you can't really give them two bites at the apple. It makes the referee's job very hard if the player stays on his feet.
MassachusettsRef
18 Jun 2008, 08:56 PM
To be fair, this was a long ball from a counterattack. I just said Sweden got lucky; I'm not trying to imply that the referees botched a call they should have had.
I'm not sure there's anyway De Bleeckere could have seen the foul. If the Russian player did go down, he'd have had a really tough decision to make.
I think the AR was the only one that had a chance here and considering the play was 40 yards across the field from him, I'm not sure he had a good look, either.
PVancouver
18 Jun 2008, 09:11 PM
I am happy to see the Arshavin stayed up despite the holding, but MassRef and Andy Gray are at least partly right, a foul should certainly have been called there. I think a red card for DOGSO was plausible but not at all necessary, as there was another defender keeping fairly even with the play.
Coincidently, Arshavin had just received a somewhat harsh caution for a trip (it was a clear foul, however).
On the offside call, notice how the Russian (Arshavin again?) only came onto the field of play after the ball was played by this teammate? Isn't he free to return to the field at that point? Too bad he wasn't completely off the field when his teammate hit it to him. ;)