View Full Version : Which is the more successful team: Italy or Germany?
NickyViola
21 Jun 2008, 07:58 PM
Why would he mention it again when this thread is already littered with its mention?
Todorov
21 Jun 2008, 08:21 PM
The fact that anyone could even think to try to discredit Germany's 1954 win yet not even mention Italy's 1934 "win" just baffles the mind.
It shouldn't "baffle" you at all. The difference being that the "miracle" of Bern was a result of "vitamin C" injected into the German players. The German doctor has already confessed to this. Of course, we're all expected to believe it was "vitamin C". Right...:rolleyes:
As for the 1934 tournament, I reckon there was some dodgy refereeing (against Spain, I believe) but I'm not aware that it was something as scandalous as Germany doping their players to beat Hungary and even calling it a "miracle" afterwards. Not to mention Puskás scoring the equalizer (3-3) late in the game that was scandalously ruled out.
Nevertheless I have already discussed the "miracle" of Bern in another thread and I don't have the patience to do it all over again.
Sure, Mussolini must've made the most of the team's victory in that tournament but that, in and of itself, casts no shadow of a doubt on Italy's win. Unless you have other pre-requisites for a a victory to be sound other than fair play on the pitch. I have some doubts as to the refereeing in that tournament, but I'm not aware of anything else.
Getting back to the topic: overall and all things considered, I pick Italy.
Borussia
21 Jun 2008, 08:57 PM
It shouldn't "baffle" you at all. The difference being that the "miracle" of Bern was a result of "vitamin C" injected into the German players. The German doctor has already confessed to this.
As if you become a better football player by taking "vitamin c" ...
Please close this silly thread, dear mods ... since it's getting more and more ridiculous! :rolleyes:
jerrito
21 Jun 2008, 09:06 PM
As hard as it is for me to say this, I think the answer is Germany. More consistently great for longer. It is very hard to compete with their amazing ability to go deep into tournaments so often...
(But don't get too excited, German friends! In head to head we win!:D)
jerrito
21 Jun 2008, 09:07 PM
As if you become a better football player by taking "vitamin c" ...
Vitamin C? Like in Orange Juice? Cheaters!;)
squidward123
21 Jun 2008, 09:47 PM
As hard as it is for me to say this, I think the answer is Germany. More consistently great for longer.
That is what edges it for me for Germany. The trophies are even as Germany's 1 more makes up for WCs being of more value.
Italy just don't seem to make 2 quarterfinals in a row. Is this year the first time they've done that in 30 years?
Todorov
21 Jun 2008, 09:54 PM
As if you become a better football player by taking "vitamin c" ...
If you really believe it was "vitamin C"...:rolleyes:
Perhaps that's how Germans call dope, I don't know.
Cris 09
21 Jun 2008, 09:58 PM
Dude are you serious?? You're going to bring that shit into this thread as well? :rolleyes: Get over it already!!!
It shouldn't "baffle" you at all. The difference being that the "miracle" of Bern was a result of "vitamin C" injected into the German players. The German doctor has already confessed to this. Of course, we're all expected to believe it was "vitamin C". Right...:rolleyes:
As for the 1934 tournament, I reckon there was some dodgy refereeing (against Spain, I believe) but I'm not aware that it was something as scandalous as Germany doping their players to beat Hungary and even calling it a "miracle" afterwards. Not to mention Puskás scoring the equalizer (3-3) late in the game that was scandalously ruled out.
Nevertheless I have already discussed the "miracle" of Bern in another thread and I don't have the patience to do it all over again.
Sure, Mussolini must've made the most of the team's victory in that tournament but that, in and of itself, casts no shadow of a doubt on Italy's win. Unless you have other pre-requisites for a a victory to be sound other than fair play on the pitch. I have some doubts as to the refereeing in that tournament, but I'm not aware of anything else.
Getting back to the topic: overall and all things considered, I pick Italy.
Listen guys, do you think FIFA would let any tainted World Cup victories stand unless they had hard evidence? Just drop all the scandal talk because it's pointless. FIFA and UEFA have the final say, end of.
That is what edges it for me for Germany. The trophies are even as Germany's 1 more makes up for WCs being of more value.
Italy just don't seem to make 2 quarterfinals in a row. Is this year the first time they've done that in 30 years?
Including both tournaments? How about 1998 and 2000?
squidward123
22 Jun 2008, 02:59 AM
Including both tournaments? How about 1998 and 2000?
yeah you're right
also 78 and 80
They just seem a lot less consistent compared to germany. You get the impression with italy that it could end up an early-ish knockout OR all the way to the final.
ViscaBarca
22 Jun 2008, 02:59 AM
I have some doubts as to the refereeing in that tournament, but I'm not aware of anything else.
well, it's reasonable to assume that the dodgy refereeing was at least partly the result of Mussolinis habit of inviting Italy game referees for dinner to his house the evening before the game. we have of course no prove of what happened there, but it's difficult to imagine that a fashist dictator only has friendly chit-chat on his mind in such situations..
as for the German vitamins, it wasn't illegal at the time to take any substances...
Todorov
22 Jun 2008, 10:08 AM
as for the German vitamins, it wasn't illegal at the time to take any substances...
Oh, I see. :rolleyes:
yeah you're right
also 78 and 80
They just seem a lot less consistent compared to germany. You get the impression with italy that it could end up an early-ish knockout OR all the way to the final.
IDK, but I think you have to factor in who the opponents are. 2002 was also a Korean inside job, and 2004 was the Danish Swedish treaty. :D
Oh, and now we have 2006 and 2008 to add for next round consistency.
well, it's reasonable to assume that the dodgy refereeing was at least partly the result of Mussolinis habit of inviting Italy game referees for dinner to his house the evening before the game. we have of course no prove of what happened there, but it's difficult to imagine that a fashist dictator only has friendly chit-chat on his mind in such situations..
as for the German vitamins, it wasn't illegal at the time to take any substances...
Please cite sources.
ztnjv
22 Jun 2008, 12:19 PM
IDK, but I think you have to factor in who the opponents are. 2002 was also a Korean inside job, and 2004 was the Danish Swedish treaty. :D
Oh, and now we have 2006 and 2008 to add for next round consistency.
Yes, Korea 2002...TERRIBLE. Ever see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4iW8pDnft8 about Korea 2002 with respect to Italy and Spain?
Then there's Italy's ridiculously bad luck with offsides calls...FIVE TIMES!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pm4jD5kU4U&feature=related
Oh the memories!!!:mad:
eliostar1
23 Jun 2008, 05:11 PM
The qualifying competition turned into something of a farce with teams qualifying then withdrawing - and teams already eliminated being offered places. India withdrew because FIFA would not let them play in bare feet. So only 13 teams participated in the final tournament.
The FIFA World Cup returned and Uruguay won it for a second time in the "final which was not a final".
This was the 1950 World Cup, I think we can all agree that World Cup has not always been what it is today.
Lusankya
23 Jun 2008, 05:21 PM
So... what's your point?
eliostar1
24 Jun 2008, 04:37 PM
So... what's your point?
You obviously haven't been following the discussion