Which is the more successful team: Italy or Germany?

[FNU]

congrats on disqualifying your entire post...

As for the original question, they are about even:

Brasil

Germany/Italy

Argentina

France/Netherlands

England/Uruguay

Netherlands on par with France? Uruguay also won 2 WCs, I think that prob. put them at least on par with the Netherlands, or slightly above.

[Perú FC]

I found different numbers on wikipedia and in my World Cup Encyclopedia, so I think I have to research it myself. ;)
I think that's because generally the all-time tables doesn't count the repeated matches where knock out games were a draw.

A typic all-time table also give to Germany the advantage in World Cups: http://www.planetworldcup.com/NATIONS/maraton.html.

PL W D L GOALS PTS
1.Brazil 92 64 14 14 201- 84 206
2.Germany 92 55 19 18 190-112 184
3.Italy 77 44 19 14 122- 69 151
4.Argentina 65 33 13 19 113- 74 112
5.England 55 25 17 13 74- 47 92
6.France 51 25 10 16 95- 64 85
7.Spain 49 22 12 15 80- 57 78
8.Sweden 46 16 13 17 74- 69 61
9.Netherlands 36 16 10 10 59- 38 58
10.Russia *** 37 17 6 14 64- 44 57
11.Serbia ** 40 16 8 16 62- 56 56
12.Uruguay 40 15 10 15 65- 57 55
13.Poland 31 15 5 11 44- 40 50
14.Hungary 32 15 3 14 87- 57 48
15.Mexico 45 11 12 22 48- 84 45
16.Czech Republic * 33 12 5 16 47- 49 41
17.Austria 29 12 4 13 43- 47 40
18.Belgium 36 10 9 17 46- 63 39
19.Portugal 19 11 1 7 32- 21 34
20.Romania 21 8 5 8 30- 32 29
21.Switzerland 26 8 5 13 37- 51 29
22.Chile 25 7 6 12 31- 40 27
23.Paraguay 22 6 7 9 27- 36 25
24.Denmark 13 7 2 4 24- 18 23
25.United States 25 6 3 16 27- 51 21
26.Croatia 13 6 2 5 15- 11 20
27.Cameroon 17 4 7 6 15- 29 19
28.Scotland 23 4 7 12 25- 41 19
29.South Korea 24 4 7 13 22- 53 19
30.Bulgaria 26 3 8 15 22- 53 17
31.Turkey 10 5 1 4 20- 17 16
32.Peru 15 4 3 8 19- 31 15
33.Rep. of Ireland 13 2 8 3 10- 10 14
34.Northern Ireland 13 3 5 5 13- 23 14
35.Nigeria 11 4 1 6 14- 16 13
36.Colombia 13 3 2 8 14- 23 11
37.Morocco 13 2 4 7 12- 18 10
38.Costa Rica 10 3 1 6 12- 21 10
39.Ecuador 7 3 - 4 7- 8 9
40.Norway 8 2 3 3 7- 8 9
41.Senegal 5 2 2 1 7- 6 8
42.East Germany 6 2 2 2 5- 5 8
43.Japan 10 2 2 6 8- 14 8
44.Saudi Arabia 13 2 2 9 9- 32 8
45.Ukraine 5 2 1 2 5- 7 7
46.Algeria 6 2 1 3 6- 10 7
47.Tunisia 12 1 4 7 8- 17 7
48.Wales 5 1 3 1 4- 4 6
49.Ghana 4 2 - 2 4- 6 6
50.South Africa 6 1 3 2 8- 11 6
51.Australia 7 1 2 4 5- 11 5
52.Iran 9 1 2 6 6- 18 5
53.North Korea 4 1 1 2 5- 9 4
54.Cuba 3 1 1 1 5- 12 4
55.Côte d'Ivoire 3 1 - 2 5- 6 3
56.Jamaica 3 1 - 2 3- 9 3
57.Honduras 3 - 2 1 2- 3 2
58.Angola 3 - 2 1 1- 2 2
59.Israel 3 - 2 1 1- 3 2
60.Egypt 4 - 2 2 3- 6 2
61.Kuwait 3 - 1 2 2- 6 1
62.Trinidad & Tobago 3 - 1 2 0- 4 1
63.Bolivia 6 - 1 5 1- 20 1
64.Iraq 3 - - 3 1- 4 0
65.Slovenia 3 - - 3 2- 7 0
66.Togo 3 - - 3 1- 6 0
67.Canada 3 - - 3 0- 5 0
68.Dutch East Indies 1 - - 1 0- 6 0
69.Utd Arab Emirates 3 - - 3 2- 11 0
70.China 3 - - 3 0- 9 0
71.New Zealand 3 - - 3 2- 12 0
72.Greece 3 - - 3 0- 10 0
73.Haiti 3 - - 3 2- 14 0
74.Zaïre 3 - - 3 0- 14 0
75.El Salvador 6 - - 6 1- 22 0

[Lusankya]

Netherlands on par with France? Uruguay also won 2 WCs, I think that prob. put them at least on par with the Netherlands, or slightly above.
To be honest, Uruguay isn't even in my top ten.
1. Brazil
2. Germany/Italy
4. Argentina
5. France
6. Netherlands/England

Uruguay didn't do anything at a WC after 1950.

[marighand]

Major trophies are the ultimate measure of success. Germany has 6, Italy has 5. Edge to the Germans!!

[FNU]

To be honest, Uruguay isn't even in my top ten.
1. Brazil
2. Germany/Italy
4. Argentina
5. France
6. Netherlands/England

Uruguay didn't do anything at a WC after 1950.
What have the Netherlands won besides 1 Euro??? Where were they when Uruguay was a force?

[ITALIA1982]

I would NEVER trade Italy's 4 WC's with Germany's record of 3 WC's and 3 EC's...
So hence Italy has the better record...as winning WC's is the only measure of success.

[Rainer24]

I would NEVER trade Italy's 4 WC's with Germany's record of 3 WC's and 3 EC's...
So hence Italy has the better record...as winning WC's is the only measure of success.





???????????????????????

[squidward123]

he is half-kidding

[VCFan]

Perhaps one could do a weighting system where a World Cup is worth, say, 2 points and a European championship is worth 1 point.

Then Italy would have 9 points and Germany would also have 9 points. IMO these teams virtually cancel each other out in terms of success... trying to discern which one is better at this point in time is futile.

[squidward123]

to be honest though I think the euros and wc are equally difficult to win.

the wc means you have to travel far sometimes from home, (although that cancels out to an extent as these two countries have to travel the same distance) and there is the extra round, but the euros have tougher competition from the first game while most WC groups are diluted in strength.

In my opinion only in terms of prestige due to worldwide coverage and history could a wc be rated over a euro. Even then, not at 2:1. 3:2 more like.

[NickyViola]

Germany. Especially as two of Italy's WC trophies were so long ago. I think that Italy consistently produces more and better players than Germany, though.

[Lusankya]

What have the Netherlands won besides 1 Euro??? Where were they when Uruguay was a force?
They were nowhere, but since many decades they are a force in opposition to Uruguay. So If Netherlands had won one WC Title 60 Years ago and then never qualified again, they would be a powerhouse??

It's not just titles. You need to be a consistent team for the whole time, then you have many opportunities to win the whole cup.

[squidward123]

Germany. Especially as two of Italy's WC trophies were so long ago.

They're still relevant..


I think that Italy consistently produces more and better players than Germany, though.

From 66-96 german players overwhelmingly dominated the ballon d'or placings for 1st, 2nd and 3rd though.

They had actually as many winners medals as holland (but spread over 2 more players), and I think double and triple the number of 2nd and 3rd places as the team immediately below them.

[NickyViola]

They're still relevant..

Barely.



From 66-96 german players overwhelmingly dominated the ballon d'or placings for 1st, 2nd and 3rd though.

They had actually as many winners medals as holland (but spread over 2 more players), and I think double and triple the number of 2nd and 3rd places as the team immediately below them.

If club teams could only field domestic players Italian clubs would dominate the continent, imho.

[tino11]

If club teams could only field domestic players Italian clubs would dominate the continent, imho.

I was thinking about this last night as a Brit living in Germany. Why is it that; if the German league is not rated so highly, do they produce such a successful national team, I mean most of thier players still play in Germany. I think it has a lot to do with how they play, you see very little long ball football in Germany, more passing to feet and steady build up play, this in my opinion is where England (rated as the best league) fall down I think. But I'm still drunk so ignore me.

[NickyViola]

The Bundesliga is my 3rd favorite league to watch (behind Serie A and Serie B) and I'm not putting them down at all. I just think that one could field more solid teams from Italian players than from German players; or from any other European country.

[Cris 09]

Finals and semi finals reached also measure a NT success! It shows consistency.

[J.C.80]

Reasons why Italy is below Germany in the wc matches statistics:

1) bad luck against hosts (Chile, Korea)
2) the Superga air disaster - they missed the 50s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torino_F.C.#Il_Grande_Torino

I think both teams are on the same level, but germans are superior in penalty shoot-outs.

[squidward123]

If club teams could only field domestic players Italian clubs would dominate the continent, imho.

I am talking about overall over the past 50 years, not just these days.

Those stats show something. Italy's ballon d'or records are nowhere near Germany's.

You asked about players from a country right? What better stats than ballon d'or records (and national team records) to give an indicator. There was also a separate award from France Football for team of the year by the way. Germany leads that one all-time as well.

[Khaloisha]

Baloon d'Or, imho, is not the best thing to value players, as long as it's assigned from journalists. I do give more credits to Fifa World Player, which is assigned from coaches and captains. And, obviously, statistics doesn't lie, so Germany is ahead.

Anyway, as I have read all thread, I can assume that we Italians are happy with our 4-1 record, while Germans are happy with their 3-3 record. So what? :p