Germany vs Austria [R]

[GOOOOAL!!]

Anyone catch what exactly the German coach did to get sent to the stands in about he 40th minute?

Watching at work on a Chinese feed.

[PVancouver]

The reason hasn't been made clear, I don't think.

"Constant bickering" was given by the ESPN announcers as the reason.

There had to be some reason the Austrian coach was in the German technical area. The fourth official was also involved. But we did not see what drew the Austrian coach to the area. This coach had also been asked to calm done just minutes before.

[Rufusabc]

Julie Foudy is an idiot....that could be an entire thread. She just said she has never seen a manager sent to the stands. She's kidding right? They also mentioned that their referee consultant is Dave Roberts and he has been described as an international referee. Is he a FIFA ref? I can't believer the production folks at ESPN would let her make a complete fool of herself.

R

[code1390]

They also mentioned that their referee consultant is Dave Roberts and he has been described as an international referee. Is he a FIFA ref?


Nope.

[Ref Flunkie]

Who the heck is Dave Roberts?!

The Austrian coach was whining the whole first half and was warned at least 2 times. I'm guessing the German coach told him to shove it and they got into an argument, which got them both sent. Then our amazing Andy Gray went on about it and I had to kick in the DVR FF button, which actually wasn't a bad way to watch the match. No announcers and fast paced :).

[Gary V]

Who the heck is Dave Roberts?!Someone who has reffed games in more than one country - I think Singapore was mentioned - so that makes him an "international referee".

[MassachusettsRef]

Who the heck is Dave Roberts?!
He's an Englishman who works for ESPN and lives in CT. I'm not sure how high he made in in England (I heard First Division as an AR, but that could be giving him too much or too little credit by one level), but he's traveled a lot for work. I know he did top games in either Singapore or Malaysia. But no, he's not a FIFA. He came into USSF and was given a Grade 5 (the highest grade one can transfer into). I don't think he has any desire to progress at this point in his life.

Nice enough guy. Got to work with him once and he's definitely quality (could no doubt be a national with ease). But by no means is he an authoritative voice on refereeing matters.

[PVancouver]

1. deepikaglobal.com - Sports News Detail
www.deepikaglobal.com/ENG6_sub - [Cached]
Published on: 8/19/2005 Last Visited: 8/19/2005

"I will try not to send off any player," Dave Kolkata, Aug 17 (UNI) Dave Roberts, who will be the first foreign referee to officiate in a domestic soccer match in India, said he would do his best not to send off any player in the East Bengal-Mohun Bagan match tomorrow as long as they play football.

Dave, a certified Class One referee with FA Singapore, said, "I will do my best to help them play soccer.
...
My focus will be to see that the game is played properly," Dave, a producer with ESPNStar Sports, said.

He said this was by far the biggest game he was appearing in considering the crowd, passon and media glare it receives.

"However, that should not affect my focus. I am too involved in the game to lose focus. There can be 100,000 people on the ground, but it will not change the way I run the game -- its the very British way, "Dave, who had officiated in high octane matches featuring Chinese and Singapore national teams and Galatasaray and Fenerbashe, said.

2. British referee for Kolkata Premier League
in.news.yahoo.com/050809/43/5z - [Cached]
Published on: 8/9/2005 Last Visited: 8/9/2005

Considering the importance of a fixture between East Bengal and Mohun Bagan and to add more value to the Premier League, the Indian Football Association (IFA) decided to invite Dave Roberts to stand in the crucial game possibly on Aug 18 at the Salt Lake Stadium here, IFA sources said.

Local officials will assist Dave Roberts, whose appointment has been cleared by the All India Football Federation.

This is the first time in the history of Kolkata's soccer league that an English referee will officiate the match.

Roberts is currently refereeing in Singapore's S-League, where he is a certified Class One referee with the Football Association of Singapore. He has been officiating for over 10 years, mainly in Britain, and has been refereeing in Southeast Asia for the past two seasons in the professional and local leagues.

Dave Roberts is also a qualified referee from the Football Association of England and was among the panel of officials for the FA Premier Reserve League, the Football Conference and FA Cup. He also regularly refereed pre-season/exhibition matches involving Premier League teams.


Offside: The can of worms is wide open (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=544849&cc=5901), Dave Roberts, June 10

[davidjd]

Who the heck is Dave Roberts?!

Centerfielder for the SF Giants.

[code1390]

Someone who has reffed games in more than one country - I think Singapore was mentioned - so that makes him an "international referee".

So if you officiate in more than one state, does that make you a "national referee"? :)

[MassachusettsRef]

Before this goes down the wrong path, I would posit that ESPN insists on referring to him as an "international referee" due to his resume. Roberts, I don't believe, would ever attempt to make such a claim on his own.

And again, though it's irrelevant to the larger point, he's not a normal Grade 5. His match experience in Asia is quite impressive and he reached a fairly high level in England. This isn't like the anchors are turning to the nearest guy with a badge for expertise; Roberts definitely knows what he's talking about--he's just not an authoritative voice and definitely not a FIFA referee.

[Alberto]

Offside: The can of worms is wide open (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=544849&cc=5901), Dave Roberts, June 10


I read his piece and all I can say is that it was poorly written and not well thought out. In others words it was an excellent example of the rubbish you hear everyday on ESPN. No small wonder Foudy sounds like an idiot if she listens to this guy for background. I don't know what is worse the fact he may have written the piece to incite debate, or that he actually believes what he wrote.

[Falc]

Why? Is there some referee cult under the leadership of guru Alfred? The piece is thought provoking and shows that there are different perspectives outside of the referee world. The arrogance around here is astounding, as if this game is solely served for referees. Let me give you a news flash, people do not buy tickets to see referees. And it is a shame that referees have become too much of a focus during this tournament.

[Ref Flunkie]

Why? Is there some referee cult under the leadership of guru Alfred? The piece is thought provoking and shows that there are different perspectives outside of the referee world. The arrogance around here is astounding, as if this game is solely served for referees. Let me give you a news flash, people do not buy tickets to see referees. And it is a shame that referees have become too much of a focus during this tournament.

They are the focus every tournament, and in every sport, because it is easy to blame the referees. And yes, there is a referee cult (clearly you are not part of it). We sacrifice chickens and everything!

[Falc]

They are the focus every tournament, and in every sport, because it is easy to blame the referees. And yes, there is a referee cult (clearly you are not part of it). We sacrifice chickens and everything!

LOL. I am certain I would enjoy you as a referee on the pitch because you have a sense of humor.

[Rufusabc]

Falc...I hate to clue you in but this is a referee board. We are lunatics about refereeing. You'd love to have us on the pitch because we care about the game, and want the best for everyoneinvolved in the match. that's why we parse every last detail of every match. We love refereeing just as much as you love playing. I have been out with a knee injury for over a year now and I just got cleared to do some games and I have emailed my assignor five times to tell him I will do any last minute game he has. I check my blackberry every five minutes to see if he has a game for me yet.

R

[superdave]

What was so aggravating about the announcers was that they criticized the CR without having Clue One what actually happened.

Me, I would have said something like, wow, I've never seen a dual send-off like that. And given the situation, well, that CR better have made the right decision, because if he didn't, he's just made himself the story.

You know, point out how unusual it was, but give the CR the benefit of the doubt.

[Wreave]

I read his piece and all I can say is that it was poorly written and not well thought out. In others words it was an excellent example of the rubbish you hear everyday on ESPN. No small wonder Foudy sounds like an idiot if she listens to this guy for background. I don't know what is worse the fact he may have written the piece to incite debate, or that he actually believes what he wrote.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. So much of the "debate" on this goal misses what I see as the single most important element of the case: the defender did not need the referee's permission to re-enter the field, as he was off in the normal course of play. The idiotic examples raised by Roberts of an injured player receiving treatment behind the goal line are asinine.

I am hoping he wrote the piece to incite debate, as you suggest, rather than actually believing it.

[Falc]

Falc...I hate to clue you in but this is a referee board. We are lunatics about refereeing. You'd love to have us on the pitch because we care about the game, and want the best for everyoneinvolved in the match. that's why we parse every last detail of every match. We love refereeing just as much as you love playing. I have been out with a knee injury for over a year now and I just got cleared to do some games and I have emailed my assignor five times to tell him I will do any last minute game he has. I check my blackberry every five minutes to see if he has a game for me yet.

R

R - The truth is that while I consider refereeing as the least active of my soccer responsibilities, I feel for the officials. I am very involved in many aspects of the game but do consider myself as a player first. And it is with that philosophy that guides me as an administrator, coach and referee. I think that the game has become much too complicated for referees. It is not a science and the more attempts it is treated as such, the worse it gets. While the attempt is to create consistency with all of these memo's, instead exceptions get created that create different results depending on the situations. If it is an offensive player, you do this but a defensive player you do that. I hate mandatory yellow cards and think it has ruined the game. Let referees use discretion and common sense. Sure, that means that you will get one style of officiating from this guy and another from that guy. But guess what, it happens anyway.

As one who has torn both of his knees, I hope your recovery is going well and that you make it back to the pitch soon.

[GOOOOAL!!]

I hate mandatory yellow cards and think it has ruined the game. Let referees use discretion and common sense. Sure, that means that you will get one style of officiating from this guy and another from that guy. But guess what, it happens anyway.

Players usually tend to hate "mandatory" cards but there are three reasons that they came about.

The first is that players were cheating. Not just committing fouls in the normal course of the game, but cheating. The foul on a breakaway is a perfect example of this. 90% of the time, the foul is a last ditch effort from the defender to do something, anything to stop a goal even though they know they won't get the ball. That is very different from a trip in the midfield when you just mis-time a tackle. Because of this "mandatory" red card, I have seen tons of breakaways where the defender pulls up so not to commit the foul and be sent off. The game is better for it. (BTW, I was one of the defenders)

The second reason is that referees were not enforcing the laws. FIFA already had the law in the book, the referees weren't enforcing it. Right or wrong, the law was in the book so they wanted to make sure it was enforced.

The third "mandatory" type is the technical one. A substitute re-enters the game, and such. Very straight forward and shouldn't be an issue.

Players, coaches and fans want to have consistency from game to game. We hear it all the time and the goal is to do that. Yes, you will get different styles and different levels of what is a foul and what isn't. That will change from game to game and even during the game (hopefully not too much). By allowing the other stuff to be a variable also, you get even more inconsistency. You can't have it both ways.