Blown "Offside" Goals demonstrate a use for replay

[ztnjv]

Yes, yes, I know. This is a worn out topic and will go nowhere but it must be said nonetheless:

Replay serves a purpose and should be used in a limited way.

Luca Toni's disallowed goal vs. Romania demonstrates such a use. It takes literally 5 seconds (at the most) with no disruption of play to quickly verify whether such a goal is offside or onside. The play is dead. In the time it takes Luca Toni to run his fingers through his air and then cover his mouth as he screams in frustration to see his goal disallowed, the commentators are already seeing that the call was wrong. Any man with 2 eyes can quickly radio down to the ref to reverse the call before the keeper can set up for an ensuing goal kick.

Now I'm not talking about replaying off-sides called in the run of play. That's obviously too complicated and unfortunate. No, I'm talking about goal mouth incidents with lots of shifting back lines coinciding with forward lunges by the strikers where everything happens too fast and goals like Toni's get sadly disallowed all too often. Such plays are quick moments where nobody on the field has even had time to react to the flag. There can be no excuse from the defense that the flag affected their game play behavior because the ball is in the net already.

It's a very safe and clean place to employ replay. Defensive players are holding their arms up while liking the offside call, the team that scores is still scowling at the linemen for raising the flag and protesting and the ball is still just sitting in the net. There is a window of a few seconds to quickly verify the call and get on with it.

It's worth it.

[ztnjv]

Another case:

I'm watching GRE-RUS and Greece just had a goal disallowed in the 87th minute that looked onside. A quick replay showed that it was. Nobody knew that it was offside until the ball was in the net.

Andy Gray was already disputing upon seeing the replay as the Italian ref upheld the lineman's call and raises his arm.


Very simple to overrule with no effect on game play.

[Vocalz]

Another case:

I'm watching GRE-RUS and Greece just had a goal disallowed in the 87th minute that looked onside. A quick replay showed that it was. Nobody knew that it was offside until the ball was in the net.

Andy Gray was already disputing upon seeing the replay as the Italian ref upheld the lineman's call and raises his arm.


Very simple to overrule with no effect on game play.

******** that shit. The U.S. NFL can keep that stupid shit for themselves.

[x2thez]

Yes, yes, I know. This is a worn out topic and will go nowhere but it must be said nonetheless:

Replay serves a purpose and should be used in a limited way.

Luca Toni's disallowed goal vs. Romania demonstrates such a use. It takes literally 5 seconds (at the most) with no disruption of play to quickly verify whether such a goal is offside or onside. The play is dead. In the time it takes Luca Toni to run his fingers through his air and then cover his mouth as he screams in frustration to see his goal disallowed, the commentators are already seeing that the call was wrong. Any man with 2 eyes can quickly radio down to the ref to reverse the call before the keeper can set up for an ensuing goal kick.

Now I'm not talking about replaying off-sides called in the run of play. That's obviously too complicated and unfortunate. No, I'm talking about goal mouth incidents with lots of shifting back lines coinciding with forward lunges by the strikers where everything happens too fast and goals like Toni's get sadly disallowed all too often. Such plays are quick moments where nobody on the field has even had time to react to the flag. There can be no excuse from the defense that the flag affected their game play behavior because the ball is in the net already.

It's a very safe and clean place to employ replay. Defensive players are holding their arms up while liking the offside call, the team that scores is still scowling at the linemen for raising the flag and protesting and the ball is still just sitting in the net. There is a window of a few seconds to quickly verify the call and get on with it.

It's worth it.


you didnt' make so much fuss about the first goal conceded against holland....italians complaining about referee mistakes is pathetic.

[usasoccerhooligan]

Another case:

I'm watching GRE-RUS and Greece just had a goal disallowed in the 87th minute that looked onside. A quick replay showed that it was. Nobody knew that it was offside until the ball was in the net.

Andy Gray was already disputing upon seeing the replay as the Italian ref upheld the lineman's call and raises his arm.


Very simple to overrule with no effect on game play.

it looked like the Greek player (Gekas?) was slightly offside when the other Greek flicked it on. remember, a player is in an offside position if anything that can play the ball is past the second-to-last defender. his head and chest were definitely past the defense.

on a side note, if i hear Rece Davis mention Panucci, i'm going to stab someone, and why does Julie Foudy have to be on ESPN? if they need a woman on the air, i'm sure they can find a six year old in Idaho that would know more.

[Prawn Sandwich]

********* you didnt' make so much fuss about the first goal conceded against holland....italians complaining about referee mistakes is pathetic.
Why would you think it's ok to post a response like that?

[ztnjv]

you didnt' make so much fuss about the first goal conceded against holland....italians complaining about referee mistakes is pathetic.

well, well. I guess you're not very interested in calm conversation, are you? ;)

It's ok. I can wait for others with something real and mature to say.:)

I hope for your sake that you're not this rude and unruly in person.

BTW, I see now that the first part of your response was edited. Too bad. I think it worked in illustrating what kinda of poster you really are so others could take note.

[timotheus]

"
Replay serves a purpose and should be used in a limited way."


Absolutely.

No, it won't stop the play and interrupt the flow of the game. A 5th referee, the TV watcher referee, will watch the match on TV.

He (or she) stays in radio contact with the referees on the pitch. The referee on the pitch can then ask (or choose not to - it's the main referees call to put the TV ref into action) if he/she is not sure what happened.

The TV ref then informs the referee on the pitch what happened from video replays.

The whole sequence takes about 10 seconds with a well trained crew.


Oh yes, I know, this is anathema to soccer fans, and will interrupt the flow of the game. Darn, that 10 second interruption...

The fact that EVERY OTHER sport has something similar is beside the point - futbol is futbol, and we LIKE our scandals and the fact that a team can work for YEARS to qualify for a major tournament, and then because of one blown call by the referee (who is human, can make mistakes, and besides might not have the best angle to see an incident because of all the bodies on the pitch) the team that worked so hard is sent packing.

Go ahead, flame away - shout, with spittle flying out of your mouth, with foam frothing on your face, how I am wrong and how this would kill the game. :D

[Prawn Sandwich]

Please don't feed the trolls

[ztnjv]

it looked like the Greek player (Gekas?) was slightly offside when the other Greek flicked it on. remember, a player is in an offside position if anything that can play the ball is past the second-to-last defender. his head and chest were definitely past the defense.

on a side note, if i hear Rece Davis mention Panucci, i'm going to stab someone, and why does Julie Foudy have to be on ESPN? if they need a woman on the air, i'm sure they can find a six year old in Idaho that would know more.

I think the call should have gone the other way. I tend to not give weight to players leaning position. I look at where the player is standing. Any millimeter difference should err on the side of the forward. But I don't know if that's the rule. Still, a replay would have been a good final word.

[ztnjv]

******** that shit. The U.S. NFL can keep that stupid shit for themselves.

So I guess you don't agree there, Volcalz?? Sheesh. :rolleyes:

[ztnjv]

"
Replay serves a purpose and should be used in a limited way."


Absolutely.

No, it won't stop the play and interrupt the flow of the game. A 5th referee, the TV watcher referee, will watch the match on TV.

He (or she) stays in radio contact with the referees on the pitch. The referee on the pitch can then ask (or choose not to - it's the main referees call to put the TV ref into action) if he/she is not sure what happened.

The TV ref then informs the referee on the pitch what happened from video replays.

The whole sequence takes about 10 seconds with a well trained crew.


Oh yes, I know, this is anathema to soccer fans, and will interrupt the flow of the game. Darn, that 10 second interruption...

The fact that EVERY OTHER sport has something similar is beside the point - futbol is futbol, and we LIKE our scandals and the fact that a team can work for YEARS to qualify for a major tournament, and then because of one blown call by the referee (who is human, can make mistakes, and besides might not have the best angle to see an incident because of all the bodies on the pitch) the team that worked so hard is sent packing.

Go ahead, flame away - shout, with spittle flying out of your mouth, with foam frothing on your face, how I am wrong and how this would kill the game. :D

I don't think all fans oppose...I'm one simple example. I understand the trepidation in making things "messy" with replays but such cases like the ones in question are just too simple to not correct. When a goal is scored and it's not until AFTER the goal is scored that anyone realizes the goal is offside, it's a quick and painless tool to quickly review the play and get it right.

The use is very limited:

The ball is the net and the offside flag is up after anyone could possibly have reacted to it.

Seems simple to me. I see no pandora's box.

[usasoccerhooligan]

I think the call should have gone the other way. I tend to not give weight to players leaning position. I look at where the player is standing. Any millimeter difference should err on the side of the forward. But I don't know if that's the rule. Still, a replay would have been a good final word.

the benefit of the doubt is given to the attacker, but IIRC, the AR was in the correct position and made the right call.

[dc0011]

It all goes down to simply this: Games are never perfect. There will always be mistakes by reffs with or without replay. And if you think about it, those mistakes add more emotions to the game. You hate it when it doesn't favor you and you love it when it does. Replay will only cause more controversy on the field if the team that got the offside in favor gets a call taken back and instead they get a goal against; that will heat up the game against the ref, because the players are always right in their minds, no matter what the ref says. Another thing, if the '5th referee' misscalls the play and gives the wrong decision, like how it happens in your american 'football' sometimes, there would be a lot more controversy, way bigger than the ones that happen now and people will complaint a lot more saying the ref favored the one benefited team purposely rather than just simply been an honest mistake. And lastly from what you say, it only seems like you are trying to excuse Italy's tied and possible elimination, even though you are trying to evade this criticism by adding the offside that was an offside in the Greece vs. Russia game. Let's try to move on and quit the complaining. ;)

[sumthingspecial]

to tell you the truth, I think it would ruin the game.
The real problem is consistency. What is off-side to one linesmen, is fine to the other. So you have 2 teams with different standards, and then at half-time they switch sides, and that complicates it further.

The game has a lot of problems but the Fifa mafia will never change anything, as long as their main pursuit (of huge sums of money) is satisfied.

But what ruins the game for me isn't even that, its the media. It's not just the incompetent American "analysts" but the fact that all of them are looking for scandals, and repeat themselves 100 times over.

I wish it was more like Japan in that respect, where they focus on good things rather than the bad side, (not sure if Japan's still like that however.. I meant like in the 90s)

[Rainer24]

to tell you the truth, I think it would ruin the game.
The real problem is consistency. What is off-side to one linesmen, is fine to the other. So you have 2 teams with different standards, and then at half-time they switch sides, and that complicates it further.





No, it is codified and standardized. Offside is offside, it is only a matter of making the correct judgment.


I don't think it would be a huge deal to implement this, but I don't see it happening. I'm also not that worried about it. Everyone's team has been screwed by the offside rule on one occasion or another.

[ztnjv]

And lastly from what you say, it only seems like you are trying to excuse Italy's tied and possible elimination, even though you are trying to evade this criticism by adding the offside that was an offside in the Greece vs. Russia game. Let's try to move on and quit the complaining. ;)

Nah, it's just a discussion about the game of soccer/football and its rules and realities....nothing more. Nothing in what I said "seems like" I'm taking any excpetion for Italy's sake.

Such reactions are either from people projecting their own personalities on others or people who are so conditioned by childish or hypocritcal posters that assume such perspectives on everyone else.;)...whichever one applies to you, I do not know and it's of little importance anyway.

It's too bad the general consensus seems to be that the team in question determines the intent of the poster. It says a lot more about the responders than it does about me.

This alone makes your rationalizing of my addition of the comment on the Greek offside goal very inaccurate...if not a bit insulting...luckily, I don't post here enough (partly because this prevailing broad brush attitude toward others) or care enough anyway to get all upset about it. Also, the Greek goal happened after I posted my thread...it just seemed very pertinent and topical in light of the thread's subject matter.

I hope that, if I do post here more often, I don't get conditioned to start giving what I'm getting.:(

[ztnjv]

sumthinspecial,

I think the scrutiny is a good thing....when kept on things that matter. Making the game better is one such thing that matters.

BTW, on Japan, after reading Freakonomics and its analysis of possible...if not CLEAR...corruption in the sacred cow of Sumo Wrestling and throwing matches, I'm not so sure ignoring scandal is the best course of action.

[sumthingspecial]

but when they complain and make a scandal about every little thing.. guess what, it makes absolutely no difference. if the media was nice and then suddenly lashed on a given problem, THEN it might make a difference, some Fifa executive might resign, etc...

I think the off-side problem isn't footballs biggest. The reason strikers lean so close to the trap and then run out of the gate too early, is because of far bigger problems such as shirt-pulling, elbowing, and other shit that goes inside the box but isn't called. I love it how the slightest bit of contact outside the box is a foul and maybe a caution, but if that happens inside the box, since it has to be a penalty the red brushes it aside.

-diving
-offensive fouls
-defensive fouls

all these should be addressed first.

these days its not the beautiful game, its like some hollywood-ish circus, and with as many stoppages as American sports, just replace the annoying commercials with annoying commentary and slow-motion replays of some guy opening his mouth.

[ScottyB]

I don't like the idea of instant replay, but they should amend the offside rule such that any part of the offensive player's body has to be even with any part of the last defender's body. I think that would allow the really close calls to get the benefit of the doubt. The only time it should be called is if there is an actual "gap" between the offensive and defensive players.