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CommonSense
13 Jun 2008, 02:17 PM
MIGHTY- After watching Mexico get a good international coach, and watching the last two games US has played (England and Spain), do you think Bradley is the right choice for this team? Do we really want to wait till 2010 to actually make that decision? Also Why does Bradley insist on putting Wolf and Johnson in the line up? Haven't he seen their way of playing? Why is he not trying new players on top?

IVES- The memory banks of plenty European soccer fans are filled with the failed exploits of big-name national team coaching hires so I’m not exactly sure how Mexico’s hiring of Sven-Goran Eriksson is an automatic success. It’s good that Mexico was able to spend the money to lure a big name, but I’m sure you can find England fans who are still laughing at the appointment. As for Bradley being the right choice, I really don’t see how the results against Spain and England were automatic indictments of his selection as coach. The performance against England was disappointing but losing to England at Wembley is no crime, regardless of what some angry fans who put too many expectations on that match believe. As for the Spain match, they played a great first half and tired out in the second half, losing 1-0 in Spain without Landon Donovan. I think some people want to blame Bob Bradley for the inadequacies of the U.S. national team’s player pool but the blame goes on a system that just didn’t produce enough high-level players. That system has improved and continues to improve. You can keep believing that all you need is a big-named coach to come in and sprinkle some of his magic Europe dust on American players and they will automatically become Cristiano Ronaldo, that’s just not reality. I see progress with the national team under Bradley and more importantly I see a young generation of talent coming up the pipeline that could be better than any group before it.

I've seen a lot on these boards about firing Bradley, how we need a big-name Euro coach to come in and bring us to the promise land.

It's the biggest reason I don't post much on the US MNT board anymore, it's just too frustrating.

1. Be real. We're not changing our coach before WCQ. All this discussion it moot, he's not going anywhere. He's a positive record and overall has done a decent-to-good job. If you're using a 0-2 loss to England (AT WEMBLEY) and 0-1 away to Spain as justification for your argument you're absolutely loony. The fact that IMO we actually outplayed Spain in the first half and stuck with Argentina is a sign that Bob has us playing better than previous managers.

I was disappointed we didn't get Klinsy, VERY disappointed. I didn't like hiring Bob Bradley much either, but let's face it. We've yet to lose to CONCACAF competition, we've had some nice wins away from home and have done a lot of work getting our boys used to the next level.

2. We simply don't have any world-class field players, yet. Adu may get there, Altidore may get there, Landon is as close as we've had, but we still don't have one player on a big 4 club in the top 4 leagues. If you think we're going to beat England and Spain away without players consistently doing well in CL play you're just off the reservation, especially when Jozy and LD are absent and our other best forwards are in MLS play.

GET YOUR EXPECTATIONS IN CHECK WITH REALITY

Yes, bringing in Josh Wolff was a complete and utter joke, but it's not exactly as if Bob has a bevy of options up front (MLS season). I'm sick of EJ too, and I'd love to see Kenny get a shot (which I'm sure will happen sooner rather than later), but again, what has Cooper really shown internationally? Do we have any forwards that have matched EJ's past success in CONCACAF? While I don't want to see him up against the best (Altidore and LD please), I'm pretty sure he'll help us cruise through qualification.

3. Magic Euro-dust managers will NOT change the skill level of the team. They will not teach some magical tactical awareness or the ability to dribble 1vs1/calmness on the ball, they can't single-handedly alter the programs direction. It's a top to bottom approach, and it takes time. Is it moving as fast as some of you would like? No, but it's moving pretty darn quickly. We're sending a lot more players aboard at different ages, we're bringing more foreign coaching into the youth and domestic leagues. We're on the right path.

I'd love to have Hiddink or Scolari or [Insert trendy manager of the month] but doing so now would be an incredible error. I think many of you ignore the unique situation an American manager must deal with. MLS, players abroad, a huge country with a complex youth set-up. I'd like to see a Euro manager start a cycle, not replace a manager doing relatively well in the middle of one.

Really, just shut the ******** up about coaching changes until we actually fail in WCQs (not going to happen) or suck it up at WC10. Until that point, all this arguing remains a completely pointless endeavor.

Do you really think a new manager will be able to instantly implement a new system that produces results with the players we have?

Do you really think a new manager will be so tactically superior that we'll start playing like Arsenal?

Do you really think a new manager will instantly allow us to over-achieve?

That last line is a point of contention. Perhaps, but I doubt very much he'd be able to do it in the 2 years preceding WC10. We live in a real world, not some dreamworld where any manager will accept the job and instantly alter US soccer history forever.

Bob Bradley is a good manager. He's not great. He's never going to coach a World-Cup winning side, but at this point, we don't have the talent to compete for one. We'd all love some huge name to come in and take us to the promise land, but for now it's Bob Bradley's turn. For now he's our manager, until he really ********s up you all need to cool it.

Brandinho
13 Jun 2008, 02:26 PM
I've seen a lot on these boards about firing Bradley
YOU HAVE!?!?:eek:

I don't believe it. I'm calling shenanigans.

MtMike
13 Jun 2008, 02:31 PM
Greatest. Post. Ever.

chad
13 Jun 2008, 02:33 PM
Pathetic defeatism and acceptance of mediocrity.

sidefootsitter
13 Jun 2008, 02:36 PM
Ives cements his reputation as Bob Bradley's whore.

Ives Ashley Dupree should be his new name.

Dan Roudebush
13 Jun 2008, 02:37 PM
Well said and way over due.

Marko72
13 Jun 2008, 02:42 PM
You're getting sick of it, too, eh?

Marko72
13 Jun 2008, 02:44 PM
Pathetic defeatism and acceptance of mediocrity.

I could just as easily say "pathetic ignorance of reality and reckless willingness to throw babies out with bathwater, jeopardizing the progress of the program." However, I generally keep it a bit more civil. Occasionally I'll even try to see the merits of someone else's point of view.

TNJed
13 Jun 2008, 02:44 PM
I've seen a lot on these boards about firing Bradley, how we need a big-name Euro coach to come in and bring us to the promise land.

It's the biggest reason I don't post much on the US MNT board anymore, it's just too frustrating.

1. Be real. We're not changing our coach before WCQ. All this discussion it moot, he's not going anywhere. He's a positive record and overall has done a decent-to-good job. If you're using a 0-2 loss to England (AT WEMBLEY) and 0-1 away to Spain as justification for your argument you're absolutely loony. The fact that IMO we actually outplayed Spain in the first half and stuck with Argentina is a sign that Bob has us playing better than previous managers.

I was disappointed we didn't get Klinsy, VERY disappointed. I didn't like hiring Bob Bradley much either, but let's face it. We've yet to lose to CONCACAF competition, we've had some nice wins away from home and have done a lot of work getting our boys used to the next level.

2. We simply don't have any world-class field players, yet. Adu may get there, Altidore may get there, Landon is as close as we've had, but we still don't have one player on a big 4 club in the top 4 leagues. If you think we're going to beat England and Spain away without players consistently doing well in CL play you're just off the reservation, especially when Jozy and LD are absent and our other best forwards are in MLS play.

GET YOUR EXPECTATIONS IN CHECK WITH REALITY

Yes, bringing in Josh Wolff was a complete and utter joke, but it's not exactly as if Bob has a bevy of options up front (MLS season). I'm sick of EJ too, and I'd love to see Kenny get a shot (which I'm sure will happen sooner rather than later), but again, what has Cooper really shown internationally? Do we have any forwards that have matched EJ's past success in CONCACAF? While I don't want to see him up against the best (Altidore and LD please), I'm pretty sure he'll help us cruise through qualification.

3. Magic Euro-dust managers will NOT change the skill level of the team. They will not teach some magical tactical awareness or the ability to dribble 1vs1/calmness on the ball, they can't single-handedly alter the programs direction. It's a top to bottom approach, and it takes time. Is it moving as fast as some of you would like? No, but it's moving pretty darn quickly. We're sending a lot more players aboard at different ages, we're bringing more foreign coaching into the youth and domestic leagues. We're on the right path.

I'd love to have Hiddink or Scolari or [Insert trendy manager of the month] but doing so now would be an incredible error. I think many of you ignore the unique situation an American manager must deal with. MLS, players abroad, a huge country with a complex youth set-up. I'd like to see a Euro manager start a cycle, not replace a manager doing relatively well in the middle of one.

Really, just shut the ******** up about coaching changes until we actually fail in WCQs (not going to happen) or suck it up at WC10. Until that point, all this arguing remains a completely pointless endeavor.

Do you really think a new manager will be able to instantly implement a new system that produces results with the players we have?

Do you really think a new manager will be so tactically superior that we'll start playing like Arsenal?

Do you really think a new manager will instantly allow us to over-achieve?

That last line is a point of contention. Perhaps, but I doubt very much he'd be able to do it in the 2 years preceding WC10. We live in a real world, not some dreamworld where any manager will accept the job and instantly alter US soccer history forever.

Bob Bradley is a good manager. He's not great. He's never going to coach a World-Cup winning side, but at this point, we don't have the talent to compete for one. We'd all love some huge name to come in and take us to the promise land, but for now it's Bob Bradley's turn. For now he's our manager, until he really ********s up you all need to cool it.
Great Post!

MtMike
13 Jun 2008, 02:51 PM
Pathetic defeatism and acceptance of mediocrity.

You've got some of that magic Ronaldo dust we can sprinkle over a few of our players??? Sweet!

Brandinho
13 Jun 2008, 02:55 PM
Pathetic defeatism and acceptance of mediocrity.
Rome wasn't built in a day. I accept improvement, even if we still are mediocre compared to other teams. Frankly, I think we've improved since the World Cup and frankly over the 3 big friendlies, we improved every game. Thank God you're not a college professor; you'd be one of those guys on ratemyprofessors.com who gets the little blue frown face because you're unreasonable and expect far too much.

FW__
13 Jun 2008, 03:02 PM
Wait a minute.....

I didn't think you were allowed to post rational, intelligent, reality based insights here.

mette72
13 Jun 2008, 03:21 PM
I think that frustration takes over when a number of Bigsoccer posters share their opinions, especially regarding the coach. I know that I am guilty of it as well. That being said, I would like to have a different coach. Who? Someone else, really. And I would like someone to come from OUTSIDE the US system, if only to make the players really fight for their spots on the team.

Oh yeah, I would like to have a coach that understand tactics and formations.....:p

bshredder
13 Jun 2008, 03:28 PM
I am still in the middle of the two dividing opinons.

I am ready to replace Bradley if we can find the right fit. I am not willing to dump him for just any Euro manager flavor of the month. It should come down to whether or not we can find someone who really wants to coach the US and doesn't treat the job as some sort of 2 year vacation (the way some MLS foreign imports have treated their time here). In December of 2006 when we arrived at our decision I wasn't a Klinsman, Peckerman, or Bradley guy. I really wished there was someone else. But Bradley took the job when others refused and we just had to choose anybody. It was a thankless job to take at the time and he has done more than I thought he was capable of so far.


I just think that after the Barbados WCQ's it'll be a good opportunity to find someone who can do new to do things with our program. The end of Euro 2008 is probably the best chance we have to switch until after the Hex his completed. There will be a lot of managers available and it would be prudent for USSF to see what's out there and what the interest level is to coach the US.

I guess I am ready for the change because Bradley has been very similar to Arena and after 10 years, it's time to do something different and bring a new approach. We have more options now with regards to our players that we've never had. 10-15 years ago, our player pool was so thin that our lineups could just write themselves. Now we have a lot of different options and it's become a puzzle to figure out. Some have said a foreign manager doesn't know our players and our system. While it maybe true that a foreign manager may not grasp our players as well as Bob there is a very good chance he will grasp our opponents better and find the right players to play accordingly.

If we get a new manager I know we are not going to be world beaters. I know change will be gradual with a new guy and even the best manager may not get us out of group play in 2010 or even the Confed Cup. I do think a good manager will increase our chances but those chances may still be slim.

On the other hand, I also don't think Bob is nearly as bad as everyone makes him out to be. He's not going to run the team into the ground. So many of the attacks against him and Nowak have been completely unfounded. A lot of these critics will watch the US team to look for flaws just to attack Bradley.

At times, the criticisms have been way out of line. He was hung out to dry by elements out of his control in the Copa America with only 1 full day to prepare for the tournament's first game. He gets way too much blame for working with MLS teams for player releases and sometimes yielding to club requests. The Toulon meltdown towards Nowak by the fans was also a joke. And I had to laugh when some people were convinced we didn't play well against Argentina. I thought we did play well against a team with far superior talent and if anything we gained valuable confidence.

I understand we need a more crictical soccer press who will question a coach. I agree with that but at the same time we need a balancing act that will also preach patience. We do not want to have the USSF become one of those national programs that will go through managers like weeds and never let anything grow or develop.

Our chances in 2010 for advancement are not as great as they could be under Bob Bradley. But they also aren't doomed to all hell either.

Scoey
13 Jun 2008, 03:30 PM
All the focus on Bradley is misguided. What we really need to focus on is naturalizing Welton.

minya
13 Jun 2008, 03:31 PM
I think that frustration takes over when a number of Bigsoccer posters share their opinions, especially regarding the coach.
The coach? What coach?

Oh yeah, I would like to have a coach that understand tactics and formations.....:p

Our players are retarded, they won't understand him. We need somebody to translate into Americanish.:cool:

Marko72
13 Jun 2008, 03:34 PM
Frustration is understandable; while our program has made great strides, it hasn't happened nearly as fast as they'd advertised it would 10+ years ago (see Project 2010). Of course, those were unreasonable expectations from the start, I'd say. How many nations have won the WC, and who was the last to do it for the first time? And how long did it take them to reach the elite level?

I have nothing against frustration. What I have a problem with is frustration clouding reason and reasonable judgment, particularly when the frustrated person starts calling everybody else unreasonable.

I am frankly of the view that a really good technical director will have a much stronger impact in the long run than even the best manager in the world. To institute the sort of soccer that we would like to play, it takes players with not only excellent technique, but superior tactical awareness. In other words, player development.

I mean it's really cliche and something we all know, but worth repeating, and that's that the US will probably be a true soccer power around the time that MLS is one of the major sports leagues in this country, and that its fan base is not largely made up of casual soccer moms and their kids.

Until then, we'll compete, we'll beat the lesser teams regularly, and we'll get results against the really big teams sometimes. And the rest of the time against the big teams, we'll get reminded that we just haven't earned it yet, baby...

galperin
13 Jun 2008, 03:42 PM
Do you really think a new manager will be so tactically superior that we'll start playing like Arsenal?

No, but we might score a goal against a quality opponent.

sidefootsitter
13 Jun 2008, 03:47 PM
You've got some of that magic Ronaldo dust we can sprinkle over a few of our players??? Sweet! Tell that to Bruce Boudreau.

Then again, maybe you have never seen a good coach in your life.

You and Ives Ashley Dupree both.

How many nations have won the WC, and who was the last to do it for the first time? And how long did it take them to reach the elite level? Come on, do you actually believe this?

If the US hired a bunch of Croatian coaches, would it be playing the same dumb&chase style soccer that it's U-17's and now its senior team plays?

Or would it be able to play a decent "move&pass" - as Robbie Mustoe just called the Dutch style and as Ruud Gullit is trying to coach the Galz - after a reasonable amount of practice?

And what would happen when you put the quality technical and tactical coaching with the US athleticism?

You'd have a darn good team.

I am frankly of the view that a really good technical director will have a much stronger impact in the long run than even the best manager in the world. To institute the sort of soccer that we would like to play, it takes players with not only excellent technique, but superior tactical awareness. In other words, player development. This is currently performed by the Euro clubs for those players who are lucky enough to be wanted by them.

Until then, we'll compete, we'll beat the lesser teams regularly, and we'll get results against the really big teams sometimes. And the rest of the time against the big teams, we'll get reminded that we just haven't earned it yet, baby...
Given its talent, the US should be a comfortable 2nd tier team, just under the top squads like Brazil, Argentina, Germany, etc.

And, on a good day, it should be able to do to Germany what Croatia did yesterday.

As of now, it's a low 3rd tier or 4th tier squad.

Marko72
13 Jun 2008, 03:48 PM
I guess I am ready for the change because Bradley has been very similar to Arena and after 10 years, it's time to do something different and bring a new approach. We have more options now with regards to our players that we've never had. 10-15 years ago, our player pool was so thin that our lineups could just write themselves. Now we have a lot of different options and it's become a puzzle to figure out. Some have said a foreign manager doesn't know our players and our system. While it maybe true that a foreign manager may not grasp our players as well as Bob there is a very good chance he will grasp our opponents better and find the right players to play accordingly.


One of the reasons that some of us (and though I've been nominally a "Bradley supporter" on this board just because I hate screaming up and down that we should fire him after every game where we fail to look like Brazil) would like a coach with a European pedigree with only a modicum of connection to US soccer is that not only would they not have learned their tactical approach out of the same manual, but they would not be as beholden as their American colleagues to USSF's long-term pet projects and their evaluations of them. In other words, they'd bring a fresher pair of eyes, as well as a different tactical approach. (Most American coaches of Bradley or Arena's generation are going to have a similar tactical approach, having learned from the same sources. Our American coaches will get better when they themselves come from a more cultured soccer background, ie when a guy like Claudio Reyna and some of his more intelligent teammates become managers.)

The thing is, they've got to have enough of an understanding coming in about the unique challenges that being a US manager entails, with ideas on how to address those, and, as you say, they've got to actually be wanting the job, unique challenges, our own soccer culture or lack thereof, and our talent pool all as a part of the package, as opposed to just staying employed in international soccer before their next big job. There aren't going to be a lot of those guys.

And, when all is said and done, Sunil's most important hire during this cycle may well not have been Bradley (or his big-name foreign successor, if for argument's sake there is one), but Wilmer Cabrera as Technical Director. Because that is where our higher-echelon team will come from: player development. (Though I'm in the camp that would prefer to have our players evaluated and developed through professional team youth systems rather than through the national program, but as that system is still in its infancy, this will have to do for the time being.)