Poland v. Austria [R]

[refereejoe]

Anyone catch the game? Webb was the referee and I wasn't too impressed with his crew. There were a number of missed offside calls, including one that was not called that resulted in the Polish goal. Webb called a penalty 2 minutes into stoppage of the second half for a shirt pull during a corner, but the contact and result was so minimal (and embellished) compared to the amount of physicality seen during corners throughout the tournament that the call was highly suspect.

Outside of the continuously botched offside calls (or non-calls), I can't really find major fault in any one particular decision. The game just didn't feel consistent to me. There were a number of yellow cards passed around, and a few struck me as quite harsh where a verbal warning would suffice. A number of corners were awarded that had elevated physicality in the mixer, but Webb only held up one in particular several times, doing nothing else until awarding the penalty at the last second. During times, Webb was very "persnickety" (to quote Tommy), and other times he put his whistle away. He didn't apply advantage very well, either.

Anyway, I've no complaints with the ultimate result because neither team played very inspired (surprising in that it essentially was a knockout game). The blown offside call leading to a goal was cancelled out by a dubious penalty, so instead of a relatively boring 0-0 game we had a relatively boring 1-1 game.

I'm sure others saw it differently, but the whole game just seemed very odd to me. Mediocre officiating for mediocre teams playing a mediocre game, I suppose. Thoughts?

[PVancouver]

We never get a full closeup view of the penalty. But assuming the fall in the box was indeed embellishment, both goals embarrass the sport, if you ask me.

Austria had a large number of high quality chances in the first half.

I only watched highlights so I can't comment on the overall reffing.

[GlennAA11]

the missed offside call on the Poland "goal" was a pretty big mistake and I think the fact that the AR was totally out of position was a contributing factor.

On the PK, it was actually off a free kick not a corner. He had the kick retaken because of all the jostling in the box he blew the whistle to stop the original freekick in order to get control over the holding and pushing. The Polish player decided to grab a hold of his mark by the shirt anyway. And judging by the way the shirt was pulled up I would think that was a good deal more than "minimal" contact. So, I didn't have a problem with that call.

I wasn't watching the game closely but I had it on while I was doing other things so I guess I can't comment too much on the overall effort.

[refereejoe]

On the PK, it was actually off a free kick not a corner. He had the kick retaken because of all the jostling in the box he blew the whistle to stop the original freekick in order to get control over the holding and pushing.Ah, that's right. I've watched six games today, so pardon the mixup if you please :) Either way, it just makes me wonder by what criteria Webb decided to issue a penalty in the dying minutes of the game when he had never called the contact before. There definitely was that level of contact in all other restarts in the mixer, as has been the theme of the entire Euro 2008 tourney. He decision to penalize at that point was seemingly random compared to all others, where he had only elected to warn and retake once before.

[macheath]

Here's a clip of the penalty, action starts at about :45--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovxZOPyN7sM

Webb had the kick retaken, due to some physical contact from both sides, shown earlier in the clip. Viewing the clip, and seeing a pretty strong and long pull on the attacker's shirt, I don't have a problem with the call--Webb was in good position, had a good look at it. Didn't see the whole match, can't comment if he had let a lot of similar things go earlier, but on just this play, penalty is certainly a justifiable call.

[actusreus13]

I'm sorry, but after just watching this replay on youtube, it is obvius to me that the call was absurd. The defender was grabbing onto the shirt but there was no pull; Austrian player "collapsed" as if struck with a hammer. Grabbing jerseys has become an unfortunate and ugly element of the game but the norm. Certainly did not warrant a pk in the extra time. Looked to me like a shameful, albeit successful attempt to elicit a penalty, nothing more.

[colins1993]

On the POL goal the AR was hugging the corner flag and failed to move back up the line and stay level with the 2LD. Ball watching, lack of concentration? Whatever the reasons - bottom line: he was out of position.

On the penalty Howard Webb had an unobstructed and close view of it and I thought it was the correct (and ballsy) call. The POL def clearly pulled the AUT attacker to the ground.

[shawn12011]

I'm sorry, but after just watching this replay on youtube, it is obvius to me that the call was absurd. The defender was grabbing onto the shirt but there was no pull; Austrian player "collapsed" as if struck with a hammer. Grabbing jerseys has become an unfortunate and ugly element of the game but the norm. Certainly did not warrant a pk in the extra time. Looked to me like a shameful, albeit successful attempt to elicit a penalty, nothing more.

Is pulling the shirt legal? No

Is it a contact foul? yes

Thus resulting in a direct free kick? yes

Did the foul occur in the penalty area? yes

Does a direct kick foul mean a PK is awarded? yes

So what am I missing here, pretty straight forward IMHO. :rolleyes:

[Rufusabc]

I haven't seen the play...but the way it is discribed says to me that the referee walked over to the players and told them to knock it off and one of the players decided that he didn't mean him.

[BigKeeper]

On the POL goal the AR was hugging the corner flag and failed to move back up the line and stay level with the 2LD. Ball watching, lack of concentration? Whatever the reasons - bottom line: he was out of position.

On the penalty Howard Webb had an unobstructed and close view of it and I thought it was the correct (and ballsy) call. The POL def clearly pulled the AUT attacker to the ground.

Watch any similar free kick and corner and you will see dozens of infractions that are much worse than that one that go uncalled. Also look at the Austrian guys face, it was completely an act and shameful Webb blew the call that way. This is the Euros, that souldn't have happened. I wonder if they realized the missed offside call at halftime and they were looking for a way to even it out. I don't agree with that either.

[GOOOOAL!!]

On the POL goal the AR was hugging the corner flag and failed to move back up the line and stay level with the 2LD. Ball watching, lack of concentration? Whatever the reasons - bottom line: he was out of position.

On the penalty Howard Webb had an unobstructed and close view of it and I thought it was the correct (and ballsy) call. The POL def clearly pulled the AUT attacker to the ground.

Anyone have a clip of this? I'm lazy and don't want to search youtube for it :p

[code1390]

Heres a still

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/RL3AO/polautpenalty.jpg

Heres the video

http://www.d1g.com/video/show/?id=2046510


And if you were talking about the AR being out of position heres that one too

http://www.d1g.com/video/show/?id=2046349

[MassachusettsRef]

UEFA backs Webb over the penalty: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=546255&cc=5901

[Wahoos1]

That was a clear direct kick restart. Defender had player front and back and dragged him down while not even playing the ball. The fact that it happens all the time does not make it correct.

I think the PA needs a TON of cleaning up and wish more refs had the required set to do so.

Factor in the fact that the ball went directly over attackers head and he could make no elevation and that the ref had said stop more than a few times and that it happened right in front of the ref. It was a mugging that would have been MUCH worse the next time...

How about the defender plays the ball and defends the play without clutching, grabbing, holding, pushing and dragging? Oh..wait, that would be following the rules...

[PVancouver]

"Defender had player front and back and dragged him down while not even playing the ball."

You are sure the attacker didn't go down of his own accord? I saw no downward movement from the defender. There could be an unseen trip but it seems highly unlikely. UEFA said the player was pulled down by the shirt. I just don't see it.

[colins1993]

"Defender had player front and back and dragged him down while not even playing the ball."

You are sure the attacker didn't go down of his own accord? I saw no downward movement from the defender. There could be an unseen trip but it seems highly unlikely. UEFA said the player was pulled down by the shirt. I just don't see it.

WOW

[macheath]

"Defender had player front and back and dragged him down while not even playing the ball."

You are sure the attacker didn't go down of his own accord? I saw no downward movement from the defender. There could be an unseen trip but it seems highly unlikely. UEFA said the player was pulled down by the shirt. I just don't see it.


P, I assume you post stuff like this just to stir up controversy. On the clip, the shirt is pulled at least six inches away from the attacker's body, halfway up his torso, pulling his (now exposed) undershirt up with it. Come on.

[BigKeeper]

Judging by the still photo of the play, looking at the Austrians face, I believe he is reacting in severe pain and subsequently falling to the ground due to the Polish defender giving him a purple nurple (just in case, pinching his nipple).
I wonder if the call should have been negated due to the Austrian pushing the Polish defender with his hands behind the called infraction.

[actusreus13]

P, I assume you post stuff like this just to stir up controversy. On the clip, the shirt is pulled at least six inches away from the attacker's body, halfway up his torso, pulling his (now exposed) undershirt up with it. Come on.

Yes, come on. It takes more than grabbing a jersey to bring down a 6 ft tall player. The pull at best (or worst) was a lateral movement, not downward. Especially as they are both CLEARLY moving together to the side tracking the ball. If you can't see it, well...I'll stop here. Should have the grabbing been penalized? Probably yes. PK in the last minute of extra time erasing a chance for a team to advance? Absolutely not. BTW, look at the Austrian player's face. Does pulling your jersey hurt that much? Yes, only if you want to impress the referee.

[code1390]

Yes, come on. It takes more than grabbing a jersey to bring down a 6 ft tall player. There was a lateral movement, not downward. Especially as they are both CLEARLY moving together to the side tracking the ball. If you can't see it, well...I stop here. Should have the grabbing been penalized? Probably yes. PK in the last minute of extra time erasing a chance for a team to advance? Absolutely not. BTW, look at the Austrian player's face. Does pulling your jersey hurt that much? Yes, only if you want to impress the referee.

Thats all that matters IMO. The ref should not take score, time, or what will happen if this team wins into account.

All that should matter is this:


Did he hold him? Yes.
Is holding a DFK foul? Yes
Did the foul occur in the area? Yes
Is a DFK foul in the area a penalty? Yes.

So the penalty should be given.