Quarterfinal matchup [R]

[Lusankya]

Of course I know the rule. What happens is that you look at the GD of those three teams from the games involving only those teams. So what's your problem with that?
You still don't get it? The problem is that even with simultaneous last matches Germany and Austria could have cheated, IF H2H was the tie-breaker.


In 1996, Turkey lost 1-0 to strong sides from Croatia and Portugal. So in the final match when they already were out, they lost 3-0 against a weaker Danish side.Sigh, they still had a worse GD than Croatia and Portugal. Also a 3:0 is common outcome.

Or do I have to remind you of the lackluster German game against a Portuguese B-side in 2000, losing 3-0?Germany could still qualify, of course their intention was to win at all cost. They just sucked. Are you serious with that example?

And in 2004, Latvia barely lost against the Czechs (2-1), then tied the World Cup finalist Germany (0-0), only to totally blow it against Holland in the last game (3-0).
Again, a 3:0 is a common outcome. Btw GD was meaningless anyway, because with a win Germany would be in front of the Netherlands.
So in none of your examples GD did anything bad.




Lol, so fairness is not the point? Well, in that case I guess you're right. I like fairness, but H2H and three teams tied on points = Antifairness.



What's wrong is that you can get beaten by a team and still advance over it by scoring more against a third team. That's ridiculous. Only if you lose your three points advance, you don't need to score much goals if you get 9 or 7 points. But yes you may be punished if you play with your b-team.

H2H is the fairest system. But obviously that's not what concerns you - see above...
So fielding B-teams and be able to totally cheat a third team out by just getting the right outcome in your opinion is fair? So maybe you think punching little girls in the face is fair, too?

[benztown]

You still don't get it? The problem is that even with simultaneous last matches Germany and Austria could have cheated, IF H2H was the tie-breaker.

Yes, they could still have cheated, but for all we know, that happened only once in 1982 way before the H2H rule was in play.

Sigh, they still had a worse GD than Croatia and Portugal. Also a 3:0 is common outcome.

Germany could still qualify, of course their intention was to win at all cost. They just sucked. Are you serious with that example?


Again, a 3:0 is a common outcome. Btw GD was meaningless anyway, because with a win Germany would be in front of the Netherlands.
So in none of your examples GD did anything bad.

Correct, none of the examples did anything bad. But that wasn't the point. It just showed that teams that are already out tend to do worse in their last game, hence becoming a problem if we use GD. BTW, none of your examples did anything bad. Your talking about a hypothetical match where teams fixed the outcome.

I like fairness, but H2H and three teams tied on points = Antifairness.

Fielding a B-Team != cheating. You have to beat the team in front of you. Period. Facing a B-Team is unfair in the same way as playing in the rain or facing the best team in the semi final instead of the final. If you can't deal with that, then you won't win it anyway.

Only if you lose your three points advance, you don't need to score much goals if you get 9 or 7 points. But yes you may be punished if you play with your b-team.

Or you may get punished by another team letting in many goals. BTW, that could be considered cheating as well. You know, Team A and Team B would be on equal points, so Team B which plays Team C (already out) might bribe them into letting in many goals.
Of course that's a hypothetical set-up, just as the one you keep on giving.

So fielding B-teams and be able to totally cheat a third team out by just getting the right outcome in your opinion is fair? So maybe you think punching little girls in the face is fair, too?

Again, you're able to cheat a third team whatever the rules are. And fielding a B-team isn't cheating. If you think that, then you have a very narrow concept of football. It gives the coach a well earned chance to see what his other players can do under pressure.
BTW, Germany fielded a B-Team against Hungary in their first match in 1954. Was that cheating? Or was it great foresight and a strategic move?

Unless you can show me that cheating has been done regularly (or even once) since the introduction of H2H in 1996, I consider this debate to be over.

[Boloni86]

Germany - Portugal looks interesting, a contrast in styles... If Portugal scores early, they could win easy. But the longer the game goes on without Portugal goal, the Phisically strong German team will gradually wear down the smaller Portugese.

Croatia - Turkey ... anything's possible here. Both teams have unity and confidence now ... but Croatia may just have a little more discipline which could be the key in the end.

Spain - Italy ... Buffon will need a huge game. This seems to be the perfect defense for Toni to finally take advantage of, so at least Italy shouldn't need the shutout.

Holland - Russia ... This should be the most attractive game. Two of the speediest teams in the tournament. Holland obviously with more quality, but Hiddink might just know the Holland weaknesses better than most other managers. And Hiddink probably realizes that they will have to score to have any chance.

[teccomin]

Germany - Portugal looks interesting, a contrast in styles... If Portugal scores early, they could win easy. But the longer the game goes on without Portugal goal, the Phisically strong German team will gradually wear down the smaller Portugese.

Croatia - Turkey ... anything's possible here. Both teams have unity and confidence now ... but Croatia may just have a little more discipline which could be the key in the end.

Spain - Italy ... Buffon will need a huge game. This seems to be the perfect defense for Toni to finally take advantage of, so at least Italy shouldn't need the shutout.

Holland - Russia ... This should be the most attractive game. Two of the speediest teams in the tournament. Holland obviously with more quality, but Hiddink might just know the Holland weaknesses better than most other managers. And Hiddink probably realizes that they will have to score to have any chance.

very accurate :)

[Gandalf The Red]

Germany 1-2 Portugal
Croatia 3-0 Turkey
Holland 2-0 Russia
Spain 3-1 Italy

[benztown]

Germany 1-2 Portugal
Croatia 3-0 Turkey
Holland 2-0 Russia
Spain 3-1 Italy

Those seem to be the obvious picks at this point. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two upsets there...

[fh 1]

One maybe interesting remark:

From all qualification groups, only group E gave both quarter-finalists: Croatia and Russia.

BTW, this was the group were England failed "by accident" ;)

[Gandalf The Red]

Those seem to be the obvious picks at this point. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two upsets there...

you hope there is an upset as by form portugal should kill you, however since big phills chelsea statement, portugal lost the final group game, I know they made several changes but then so did croatia, holland etc...

I wouldnt be surprised if we have seen the best of Portugal

[FNU]

you hope there is an upset as by form portugal should kill you, however since big phills chelsea statement, portugal lost the final group game, I know they made several changes but then so did croatia, holland etc...

I wouldnt be surprised if we have seen the best of Portugal
They lack depth possibly, and we all know they don't have a target man. Germany is the favorite IMO.

[Rainer24]

One maybe interesting remark:

From all qualification groups, only group E gave both quarter-finalists: Croatia and Russia.

BTW, this was the group were England failed "by accident" ;)


I also noticed that.

[FNU]

Turkey were hard done with the 2 match ban on Volkan, it was just push.

[el-capitano]

Keep it to the match threads now all finalists have been resolved! :)