Croatia/Germany offside decision [R]

[Kaza69]

???

[code1390]

He appeared to barely be in an offside position when the shot was taken. IMO, he didn't gain an advantage or interfere with anyone. Did he screen the GK partially? Maybe. But no way the AR could tell. I say good call.

http://www.d1g.com/video/show/2046129

[MassachusettsRef]

To start, I think we need a thread title change again.

Second, for a second I thought you had a point. I watched the game during lunch at a bar and offside never even occurred to me. And, if you were right, this conversation (at least amongst referees) would probably be much more contentious than the Van Nistelrooy goal.

However, I'm not sure your premise is correct:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdJXOpZdmVs

Klose, if you look at the cut of the grass and the goal area, looks to be about even with the Croatian defender in the foreground (pause it at about 0:49). The camera angle makes it appear that he's possibly a step offside at most, but if the angle was square, I think it's much more likely he's almost dead-even.

So, on positioning alone, I don't think there's an offside call to be made here.

Now, if he were confirmed to be in an offside position, that's a much more difficult question. Is he affecting play (interfering with play or interfering with an opponent)? If the keeper couldn't have stopped it regardless, is it possible for him to be interfering? Is that something we should/can be considering? I suspect there would be a slew of memos and interpretations bandied around here from all sorts of different sources (people might still want to debate it anyway).

In the end, the answer to your question is that--in this particular situation--I don't think there's a black & white answer.

[code1390]

Kaza69 or a mod should change the title. Kaza, if you see this can you change it to "Croatia/Germany offside decision [R]".

[Tarheel Ref]

To start, I think we need a thread title change again.

It doesn't make it right but I'm glad I'm not the only one that did something like this. :rolleyes:

OT/Mods...I looked for a guide or a "what not to do" page but haven't been able to find it...tried clicking on First Time Here (which I probably should have done the first time I was here) but that took me to something I didn't want to pursue...could you point me to the link to something like this if I'm just completely missing where it is? Thanks.....

[PVancouver]

Klose was definitely in an offside position, but the CR had an excellent view of whether or not he blocked the goalkeeper's vision. He probably wouldn't know if Klose was in an offside position, but a check with the AR could have verified that.

If Klose had clearly interfered with a defender or the goalkeeper on the play, offside would have to be called, even if it was clear that the shot could not have been stopped without interference.

Of course, when the interference is blocking a goalkeeper's vision, the CR has a lot of leeway!

[Nesto]

To start, I think we need a thread title change again.

Second, for a second I thought you had a point. I watched the game during lunch at a bar and offside never even occurred to me. And, if you were right, this conversation (at least amongst referees) would probably be much more contentious than the Van Nistelrooy goal.

However, I'm not sure your premise is correct:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdJXOpZdmVs

Klose, if you look at the cut of the grass and the goal area, looks to be about even with the Croatian defender in the foreground (pause it at about 0:49). The camera angle makes it appear that he's possibly a step offside at most, but if the angle was square, I think it's much more likely he's almost dead-even.

So, on positioning alone, I don't think there's an offside call to be made here.

Now, if he were confirmed to be in an offside position, that's a much more difficult question. Is he affecting play (interfering with play or interfering with an opponent)? If the keeper couldn't have stopped it regardless, is it possible for him to be interfering? Is that something we should/can be considering? I suspect there would be a slew of memos and interpretations bandied around here from all sorts of different sources (people might still want to debate it anyway).

In the end, the answer to your question is that--in this particular situation--I don't think there's a black & white answer.
I think you got the point well MassRef - very very difficult to even say the German attacker was offside to begin with.

Lets say he was, then it becomes a big ITOOTR argument. I can see why the ref crew would not have called it... assuming the AR did judge the German attacker to be offside, the AR doesn't have the angle to see if he obstructed the GK's view. And the CR's view of the German attacker is also going to be obstructed by one of the Croatian defenders - who probably obstructs the GK's view of the shot whether the German attacker is there or not.

[GOOOOAL!!]

I think you got the point well MassRef - very very difficult to even say the German attacker was offside to begin with.

Lets say he was, then it becomes a big ITOOTR argument. I can see why the ref crew would not have called it... assuming the AR did judge the German attacker to be offside, the AR doesn't have the angle to see if he obstructed the GK's view. And the CR's view of the German attacker is also going to be obstructed by one of the Croatian defenders - who probably obstructs the GK's view of the shot whether the German attacker is there or not.

Yeah, what he said! That's how I would go.

[Ref Flunkie]

I think you got the point well MassRef - very very difficult to even say the German attacker was offside to begin with.

Agreed. Looked pretty even to me.

[IASocFan]

- Thread title changed.

- Klose looks offside, but in no way involved in the play - from my fuzzy view of the clip!