Most Entertaining Game At Euro 2008

[Cris 09]

It's me being a crybaby, really.

Yes, we see that!

[Todorov]

Germany's World Cup victors under doping cloud

By Luke Harding in Berlin
April 2, 2004






For the past 50 years they have been revered but on Wednesday the German soccer team that won the 1954 World Cup - defeating Hungary in the final against all odds - was under suspicion.


According to a new documentary, the German side was given performance-enhancing injections before running onto the pitch. In the report to be shown in Germany next month, the former groundsman of the Swiss stadium where the final was played admits that after the game, which West Germany won 3-2, he discovered several syringes in the German dressing room.


Walter Bronnimann said he had kept quiet about his discovery for 50 years after the company for which he worked swore him to silence.
On Wednesday, the doctor of the World Cup-winning side, Franz Loogen, now 84, admitted he had given the players injections but insisted the syringes contained vitamin C.


"I injected the players with vitamin C to improve their stamina," he told Germany's Bild tabloid. "You can't measure the effect but the players believed in it."

Rumours that the West German players might have taken drugs have swirled around ever since they beat a Hungarian side that had thrashed them 8-3 in the first stage of the tournament.

After the final, several players, including Helmut Rahn, who scored Germany's 85th-minute winning goal, contracted jaundice. By the end of the season eight of them had fallen ill.

Loogen admitted that the players may have caught the disease because the needles used to inject them were not sterilised properly. He said he had used an old Soviet "cooker" to heat the syringes, and said it might not have reached the correct temperature to kill germs.

On Wednesday, one of the three surviving players from the 1954 squad admitted that he had received injections but he denied the team had cheated. "I'm furious and annoyed that after 50 years something like this can be suggested," Horst Eckel, 72, said. "We didn't know the word doping."

Another player, Hans Schafer, 74, added: "The doctor did give us preparations to keep us fresh. But we didn't take drugs."

[Todorov]

It was "Vitamin C" after all.

I didn't know the Germans called it that. :cool:

[Rainer24]

Do you truly believe they possessed some super drug and were using in back in 1954?

That same questionable result says they received the syringe from a Soviet doctor, so who's to say Hungary, an Eastern Bloc nation, weren't doping themselves, or that he Soviets hadn't tried to sabotage West Germany with the syringe? I don't really believe that, but it doesn't seem any less more ridiculous to me, either.

I think the Germans were just better than they showed in the 8-3 loss and got lucky.

[Cris 09]

Germany's World Cup victors under doping cloud

By Luke Harding in Berlin
April 2, 2004






For the past 50 years they have been revered but on Wednesday the German soccer team that won the 1954 World Cup - defeating Hungary in the final against all odds - was under suspicion.


According to a new documentary, the German side was given performance-enhancing injections before running onto the pitch. In the report to be shown in Germany next month, the former groundsman of the Swiss stadium where the final was played admits that after the game, which West Germany won 3-2, he discovered several syringes in the German dressing room.


Walter Bronnimann said he had kept quiet about his discovery for 50 years after the company for which he worked swore him to silence.
On Wednesday, the doctor of the World Cup-winning side, Franz Loogen, now 84, admitted he had given the players injections but insisted the syringes contained vitamin C.


"I injected the players with vitamin C to improve their stamina," he told Germany's Bild tabloid. "You can't measure the effect but the players believed in it."

Rumours that the West German players might have taken drugs have swirled around ever since they beat a Hungarian side that had thrashed them 8-3 in the first stage of the tournament.

After the final, several players, including Helmut Rahn, who scored Germany's 85th-minute winning goal, contracted jaundice. By the end of the season eight of them had fallen ill.

Loogen admitted that the players may have caught the disease because the needles used to inject them were not sterilised properly. He said he had used an old Soviet "cooker" to heat the syringes, and said it might not have reached the correct temperature to kill germs.

On Wednesday, one of the three surviving players from the 1954 squad admitted that he had received injections but he denied the team had cheated. "I'm furious and annoyed that after 50 years something like this can be suggested," Horst Eckel, 72, said. "We didn't know the word doping."

Another player, Hans Schafer, 74, added: "The doctor did give us preparations to keep us fresh. But we didn't take drugs."

http://www.oddpic.com/data/528/atempting-to-give-a-damn.gif

[Chess_Panther]

Quite surprised with the level of excitment so far...definitely better than 2004 and has the potential as well to surpass the 2000 edition.

[glennaldo_sf]

For the past 50 years they have been revered but on Wednesday the German soccer team that won the 1954 World Cup - defeating Hungary in the final against all odds - was under suspicion.


According to a new documentary, the German side was given performance-enhancing injections before running onto the pitch. In the report to be shown in Germany next month, the former groundsman of the Swiss stadium where the final was played admits that after the game, which West Germany won 3-2, he discovered several syringes in the German dressing room.

that was a great game but I'm not sure if I'd really count the 1954 World Cup final as one of the ''most entertaining game of Euro 2008". ;)

[Todorov]

Do you truly believe they possessed some super drug and were using in back in 1954?

It doesn't need to be a "super drug" to enhance the players performance. Nevertheless, the Germans already admitted they injected their players, so that should be enough to clear any doubt left.

That same questionable result says they received the syringe from a Soviet doctor, so who's to say Hungary, an Eastern Bloc nation, weren't doping themselves, or that he Soviets hadn't tried to sabotage West Germany with the syringe? I don't really believe that, but it doesn't seem any less more ridiculous to me, either.

You must've misread the text. The German doctor who injected the players with "vitamin C" (right...:rolleyes:) didn't receive the syringes from a "Soviet doctor". What happened was that the German doctor "used an old Soviet "cooker" to heat the syringes, and said it might not have reached the correct temperature to kill germs". You might blame the jaundice the German players contracted on the Soviet "cooker" Dr. Loogen used, not on some unknown "Soviet doctor".

Anyway, you're trying to shift the blame onto the other side. Surely, the communists were of the worst kind in doping their athletes, but in this case we're talking about Germany and how they cheated to get an illegal edge over a far superior Hungarian side. The German doctor himself confessed to have injected the players, only to use the lame "vitamin C" excuse.

I think the Germans were just better than they showed in the 8-3 loss and got lucky.

A romantic assertion, to say the least. The "miracle" of Bern has a rather simple explanation: syringes and a friendly linesman.

[Rainer24]

No, I didn't misread anything. The syringe comes form the Wikipedia article for the 1954 World Cup, which I wouldn't normally look to for evidence, but one report from one guy and a bunch of circumstantial evidence isn't particularly convincing either.


Yeah, they lost 8-3 in the earlier rounds, but Herberger also rested several key players in that match who later played in the Final, most notably Helmut Rahn.


Maybe they did cheat, but crazy me still adheres to the theory that the burden of proof falls on the accuser, and I don't see any of the circumstantial evidence as being particularly damning.

[Todorov]

Maybe they did cheat, but crazy me still adheres to the theory that the burden of proof falls on the accuser, and I don't see any of the circumstantial evidence as being particularly damning.

If you sincerely believe that the German doctor injected "vitamin C" in the players so that they would be "fresher" for the second half, who am I to convince you?

Please, believe in the "miracle" of Bern all you want, just don't expect the rest of the world to believe and applaud.

[Cris 09]

Yeah, so these soviet syringes...there were little green men there too right? Or were they waiting on the Grassy Knoll for Kennedy??

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4671/iwanttobelieveel4.jpg

[Rainer24]

If you sincerely believe that the German doctor injected "vitamin C" in the players so that they would be "fresher" for the second half, who am I to convince you?

Please, believe in the "miracle" of Bern all you want, just don't expect the rest of the world to believe and applaud.


The thing that would lead me to believe it is that most of the world don't really question it or bring it up. In the end, it's still 3-2.

[Rainer24]

Yeah, so these soviet syringes...there were little green men there too right? Or were they waiting on the Grassy Knoll for Kennedy??

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4671/iwanttobelieveel4.jpg



Reminds me of one of the great all time photoshop jobs ever:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/PRiser/1685OswaldBand.jpg

[Todorov]

The thing that would lead me to believe it is that most of the world don't really question it or bring it up. In the end, it's still 3-2.

The rest of the world does question it, that's why this story is still brought up 50 years later. If it was an unquestionable victory, nobody would be talking about it.

As for "in the end, it's still 3-2", I concur. If you value winning above anything else and no matter how you do it, then what is important is the final result alone. There are some people like myself, though, that don't sympathize with cheaters and think that you have to win fair and square.

[glennaldo_sf]

Anyhoo... back to the original topic... most entertaining game at Euro 2008 so far....

Holland vs France

:eek:

[Rainer24]

The rest of the world does question it, that's why this story is still brought up 50 years later. If it was an unquestionable victory, nobody would be talking about it.

As for "in the end, it's still 3-2", I concur. If you value winning above anything else and no matter how you do it, then what is important is the final result alone. There are some people like myself, though, that don't sympathize with cheaters and think that you have to win fair and square.




It has in no way been proven and it was over 50 years ago, so who really cares?

[tolstoy]

despite the fact that it was a 1-1 tie, i found the ITA/ROU match this morning fascinating - end to end with competing styles, great chances and great goalkeeping, exciting to the end

[Rainer24]

despite the fact that it was a 1-1 tie, i found the ITA/ROU match this morning fascinating - end to end with competing styles, great chances and great goalkeeping, exciting to the end


Yeah, it was a very entertaining match. You usually hear people say that penalties are never saved, only missed, but Buffon really did save that one.

[Borussia]

"Holland vs France" and "Italy vs Romania".

[blueguitar322]

Yes, both matches today were outstanding.

Hup Holland, Hup!